Author Topic: House of the Undying discussion. SPOILERS thru ADWD!  (Read 1602 times)  

Offline jason10mm

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 802
    • View Profile
House of the Undying discussion. SPOILERS thru ADWD!
« on: February 13, 2012, 03:28:17 pm »
House of the Undying discussion. 100% SPOILERS thru A Dance With Dragons!
I thought it would be fun for us repeat readers to revisit this chapter and try to pick out the prophecies in detail. Our discussion covers EVERY SINGLE ASOIAF TIDBIT in existence so don't read further if you haven't read all the books!

The woman with the 4 dwarves: Not sure what this means, maybe Tyrion and Shae?
The feast of corpses with the wolf headed king: Clearly the Red Wedding.
House with the lemon tree: Maybe her longing for youth and innocence?
King in the dragon skull hall: This must be Ayres when he contemplated burning King's Landing as Tywin attacked.
Prince Aegon's birth: Rhaegar and Elia Martell are his parents. Seems odd he would be so gentle with her if he was shacking up with Lyanna shortly thereafter. Maybe he wants another kid?
The bit with Pyat Phree and the wizards is just a distraction I think, appealing to her greed.
The three fires she must light: life: the pyre that birthed the dragons, death, Drogo's pyre, and love, a fire in her heart? The burning of the slavers?
The three mounts: to bed: perhaps Drogo, to dread, not sure, to love, maybe Daario Naharis, her boy-toy?
Three treasons: blood, gold, and love. Not sure about any of these. Mirri Maz Duur is probably the blood one.
She sees Viserys die, then what is probably her unborn son as a Khal, then Rhaegar being killed on the Trident. The King with no shadow must be Stannis (does he have blue eyes, or is it the blue of the Others?), the cloth dragon (a mummers dragon) may be the boy Aegon if he is a fake created by Varys, and the stone dragon might be one living underneath Dragonstone, or it is her dragons roosting in the pyramids of Merreen. The corpse with grey lips on the ship could be one of the Greyjoys, or maybe the guy who caught the Grey wasting disease (the one mentoring Aegon). The blue flower on the Wall is surely Jon since Lyanna loved blue roses (assuming he is her son).

You can go to http://www.towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/prophecies.html to read their thoughts. Not sure I agree with all of them but most seem to fit.

KBoards.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Offline PinkKindle

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 360
    • Gender: Female
    • Alabama
      • View Profile
    Re: House of the Undying discussion. SPOILERS thru ADWD!
    « Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 09:00:09 am »
    House of the Undying discussion. 100% SPOILERS thru A Dance With Dragons!
    I thought it would be fun for us repeat readers to revisit this chapter and try to pick out the prophecies in detail. Our discussion covers EVERY SINGLE ASOIAF TIDBIT in existence so don't read further if you haven't read all the books!

    The woman with the 4 dwarves: Not sure what this means, maybe Tyrion and Shae?
    The feast of corpses with the wolf headed king: Clearly the Red Wedding.
    House with the lemon tree: Maybe her longing for youth and innocence?
    King in the dragon skull hall: This must be Ayres when he contemplated burning King's Landing as Tywin attacked.
    Prince Aegon's birth: Rhaegar and Elia Martell are his parents. Seems odd he would be so gentle with her if he was shacking up with Lyanna shortly thereafter. Maybe he wants another kid?
    The bit with Pyat Phree and the wizards is just a distraction I think, appealing to her greed.
    The three fires she must light: life: the pyre that birthed the dragons, death, Drogo's pyre, and love, a fire in her heart? The burning of the slavers?
    The three mounts: to bed: perhaps Drogo, to dread, not sure, to love, maybe Daario Naharis, her boy-toy?
    Three treasons: blood, gold, and love. Not sure about any of these. Mirri Maz Duur is probably the blood one.
    She sees Viserys die, then what is probably her unborn son as a Khal, then Rhaegar being killed on the Trident. The King with no shadow must be Stannis (does he have blue eyes, or is it the blue of the Others?), the cloth dragon (a mummers dragon) may be the boy Aegon if he is a fake created by Varys, and the stone dragon might be one living underneath Dragonstone, or it is her dragons roosting in the pyramids of Merreen. The corpse with grey lips on the ship could be one of the Greyjoys, or maybe the guy who caught the Grey wasting disease (the one mentoring Aegon). The blue flower on the Wall is surely Jon since Lyanna loved blue roses (assuming he is her son).

    You can go to http://www.towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/prophecies.html to read their thoughts. Not sure I agree with all of them but most seem to fit.

    Yay, finally a thread I can reply to! ;D  I've been reading the discussions, but I'm afraid to reply because it's hard to remember exactly when things happened (so I'd end up giving spoilers), and I also don't remember how I viewed things on my first reading -- everything now fits into the bigger picture, so again spoilers!

    But, the House of the Undying -- this has always been one of my favorite parts of the series, and I keep coming back to it in my mind as events unfold.

    The woman with the dwarves, I really have no clue either, but I think it might not be literal.  Not actual dwarves, but maybe the dwarves represent 4 different factions and the woman perhaps the monarchy, or Westeros itself?  I don't know, it's not really a fully formed thought yet -- I really don't know. ??? (Note -- I just went and read this part of the essay at Tower of the Hand, and they agree with me!  I feel smart! ::))

    Yes, the wolf-headed king must be the Red Wedding -- though it almost seems too obvious! ::)

    I think the house with the lemon tree is just a trap.  It's something she longs for, but if she were to enter, she'd be trapped there forever within the House of the Undying.

    The king in the room with the dragon skulls could be Aerys certainly, though it seems like she had ancestors further back who were also obsessed with fire.  He's saying to someone unseen "Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat."  Okay, let who be king?  I guess it makes sense though in the context of burning the city before it can be taken . . . I'd have to find and re-read the description of that.

    Okay, this next part with Aegon's birth -- I think this is the most interesting part of the whole thing.  Of course the history is that baby Aegon is Elia and Rhaegar's son, but the mother here is never named or even described, just called "the woman."  Of course it seems like it must be Elia, because baby Aegon was born at court and it was a public thing, but something about the scene just bothers me.  Why isn't the mother named or described?  I guess the point of the scene is "There must be one more . . . The dragon has three heads" -- maybe that's why he went to Lyanna?  Elia has been described as being rather frail and having trouble with her pregnancies -- although the woman here is not described as such.  I'm not sure how, but things aren't always as they seem -- I just feel like there's something more here.  The fact that this baby has "the song of ice and fire" would seem to point to him being part Stark -- but that's not Aegon . . . of course Rhaegar could just be misinterpreting the prophecies he's trying to bring about (never a good idea to try to force prophecy -- I'm talking to you Melisandre! :D)

    Yes, I think the Pyat Pree part is another trap, like the house with the lemon tree and when she reaches the wizards making promises it's still more of a trap.

    Now to the "threes."  I don't think we've seen all of these fulfilled yet.  I think we have seen the first part of each, and possibly the middle parts, but not the ends.

    For the fires, clearly the first was Drogo's funeral pyre, the birth of her dragons.  Even though it was at Drogo's death, I think that is the fire for life -- the life of the dragons.  The fire for death could have been in ADWD.  When she left with Drogon, I think that might have been her "death" as queen there.  Again, I really need to re-read, but did he set the arena on fire?  I don't think we've seen the fire "to love" yet.  I do think the essay at Tower of the Hand makes a good point, though.  It's not "for love," it's "to love" -- so the fire itself seems to be something for her to love?  Another thought is that the fire for death could have been when Drogon roasted the undying at the end of this scene, but I don't really think so.  That would bring us up to "to love" -- so in that case maybe Drogon himself, when she rides off on him, is the fire "to love"?  Again, though, I don't think so -- I don't think we've come to the love fire yet.

    The mounts she rides are the horse that takes her to Drogo -- that's "to bed."  I think we've again seen the second in ADWD -- I think it's when she rides Drogon and that's "to dread."  Certainly everyone else dreads him, but does she?  Or maybe she is dreaded because of him -- or maybe we've just seen the ride but not yet the dread that comes of it.  I do think that Drogon is her second significant mount, though.  The one that she is "to love" I don't think we've seen yet.

    The treasons, again, I think we've seen the first ("for blood") in Mirri Maz Duur.  I'm not sure whether we've seen the one for gold yet or not.  Dany thinks that one of the treasons is Jorah, but I'm not so sure.  I'm not sure he really betrayed her.  He was only spying on her before he knew her, and once he did and once he saved her from the wineseller, he wasn't betraying her anymore.  It could be the sellswords that betrayed her in ADWD, that could be for gold, but it doesn't jump out to me as obvious enough, but it could be.  Again, the "for love" I don't think has happened yet.

    In the next part she sees the 3 deaths -- well, her unborn son she doesn't really see as a death, more as a lost possibility. 

    Then I guess you could call the next part the "3 lies."  The king with no shadow is Stannis (fake Azor Azhai), and I also think the mummer's dragon is Aegon.  I'm not sure what this means though -- I see 3 possibilities.  The first, of course, is that he's a fake dragon and not really Aegon at all.  The second is that it just refers to the fact that he's a dragon that's been hidden, disguised -- that the dragon itself is a mummer (this might be a stretch).  The third possibility is that he's a dragon who was set up to fall to the hero -- that he really is Aegon, but that he's been placed to play a part and be defeated.  I don't know, I guess the first is most likely, that he's a fake Aegon -- and this fits in with the 3 lies.  Finally the stone dragon -- if these are the 3 lies, then I guess this must be a lie as well.  Perhaps a false dragon that Melisandre will raise from Dragonstone or even from the crypts of Winterfell (isn't there a legend of a stone dragon there as well?)?

    And then the 3 brides (or Dany as a bride 3 times) -- the part with her Silver is Drogo of course.  The corpse in a ship is something we haven't yet seen or have only started to see I think.  I kind of think this might be Victarion.  He's a Greyjoy of course, and isn't there a fire wizard keeping him alive from blood poisoning that should have killed him?  The third, the blue rose, seems like it would refer to Jon, but of course this hasn't happened yet.

    Anyway, those are my long drawn-out thoughts on this. ::)
    Patti

    KBoards.com

    • Advertisement
    • ***