Author Topic: BIG books  (Read 9025 times)  

Offline Jeff

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Re: BIG books
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2008, 10:43:47 am »
Ethan,

Im a long war-novel nut. The only exception being Bernard Cornwells Sharpes series which are (maybe) a dozen smaller books about various battles. Have you read William Safires Freedom?

Jeff

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    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #26 on: November 01, 2008, 01:24:40 pm »
    I've always used page count in order to get an idea of book length so the number of words in a book holds no meaning to me.

    You mentioned The Pillars of the Earth (which I've added to my "Modern books to look into" list, which I just started today), and using that I was able to put the number of words into a page count (the translation worked out to 411.099 words per page).

    100,000 words came out to 243 pages. The first thing that I look for when considering a book is page count. When I see the page count is in the 200 page range I naturally feel that it's a rip off, if money is involved, as I feel that it's highly unlikely that the author will be able to develop their story well enough to satisfy me within such limited confines. I like for a book to at least make it into the 300 page range, the closer to the 400 page range the better.

    250,000 words came out to 608 pages. This would be what I'd consider to be the upper range of a normal book (400 - 600 pages is a normal book to me).

    If an author wants to scare me away they can write short stories, which, to me, are nothing more than undeveloped stories which only tease as to what could have been. Short books of 200 pages or less will also steer me away. I followed a link on the amazon forum that was dedicated to books by independent writers, one of the first books that I looked at had around 99 pages, the moment that I saw that I stopped considering the book. Too bloody short.

    I'm a slow reader so I'll never get through anything quickly, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #27 on: November 01, 2008, 01:45:42 pm »
    Page count depends on paper size, font size and margins. One of my books, with about 250,000 words, is 802 pages in a 5.5 X 8.5 paperback but only 650-something pages when formatted at 8.5 x 11. The Kindle version would probably be even smaller because there are no gutter margins to account for the book binding.
    Jeff

    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #28 on: November 01, 2008, 05:01:52 pm »
    My Kindle has made me well aware of how many variables there are in page count (I use the largest text size), unfortunately there is only one book that I've ever read in which I was actually aware of the word count, Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard, but I've long forgotten how many words that book has. So, in order to even begin to get an idea of how big a book would be based on word count I had to use page count.

    If word count was the standard used to show book length then I'd be happy to use it, but when all you get is page count, and the size of the format, then that is what you have to use. Granted, I'm going to pay more mind to the size of the format from now on, but beyond that I really don't see how I'm supposed to get any idea of the size of a book.

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #29 on: November 01, 2008, 05:26:27 pm »
    Selcien, I have a suggestion, but I don't know if it will work for you or not. On your home page, below each title, there are a row of dots that show you the book length. The longer the book, the longer the row of dots. If you go to the regular book section at Amazon and bring up your title, you can see under Product Details the page number count of the book. You can then get an idea of the size of all your other books by seeing how long the row of dots is for that one. It certainly won't give you numbers, but it will give you something to go on.

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #30 on: November 01, 2008, 05:34:31 pm »
    You are quite right of course; generally the only information readily available is page count which really only applies to books on paper. Digital books are a relatively new idea that are just coming of age so it will take some time for traditional publishers to find better ways of indexing books for their readers. 

    I wish I could offer you something more concrete, but I can't.

    JH

    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #31 on: November 02, 2008, 12:12:39 pm »
    Selcien, I have a suggestion, but I don't know if it will work for you or not. On your home page, below each title, there are a row of dots that show you the book length. The longer the book, the longer the row of dots. If you go to the regular book section at Amazon and bring up your title, you can see under Product Details the page number count of the book. You can then get an idea of the size of all your other books by seeing how long the row of dots is for that one. It certainly won't give you numbers, but it will give you something to go on.

     I don't think that that would work at all. Animal Farm has three dots, any sample I've downloaded has had three dots, so I have to think that the final location number given for a book would have to be used. But that brings up the question as to how the books get their location numbers and whether the location numbers are used in all books in such a way that it can be used to determine length, but then there's the matter that whatever you find will only work for books you have on your Kindle, not books that you're looking into. So regardless, it wouldn't do me much good as it would be after the fact.

    You are quite right of course; generally the only information readily available is page count which really only applies to books on paper. Digital books are a relatively new idea that are just coming of age so it will take some time for traditional publishers to find better ways of indexing books for their readers. 

    I wish I could offer you something more concrete, but I can't.

    JH

    All I need is enough information to minimize the risk of purchasing books that are small enough that I'd consider them to be short stories, you've helped in that. Albeit, I'll still read short stories as long as they're classics, maybe someone like Mark Twain can get me to change my mind 'cause George Orwell has certainly failed to do so (both 1984 and Animal Farm, while enjoyable reads with very good points to be made, left me feeling disatisified.)

    I need to add this. The reason that I bought a Kindle was in hopes that it would get me to read again. My stance of book length is a leftover from when I was really into reading, which was around the late eighties. Since then there have only been two series that I've felt inclined to read, Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, and J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter, both of which are dominated by thick books. So for all I know I may actually require books that are longer than I had before, I'll just have to figure that out.

    Oh, and just so you know, I did add The Treasure of La Malinche to my "to look into" list after The Pillars of the Earth, a classic book will be interspersed among the "modern" titles, so it could be a while before I get to it (I have three books on my Kindle to read before looking for new books), but I will be taking a look at your book. Just thought that you'd like to know. :)

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #32 on: November 02, 2008, 12:23:39 pm »
    Thank you Selcien,

    Youre going to laugh but - dont buy The Treasure of la Malinche, its free to members of this forum for a limited time.

    http://www.eliscopublishing.com/KindleBoards/The_Treasure_of_La_Malinche_Vol_1.prc

    Be advised that it contains bad words; the heroines fault, not mine.  :)

    Jeff

    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #33 on: November 02, 2008, 01:15:53 pm »
    I truly appreciate that you're offering your book for free but I cannot put your book ahead of the other books that I'm interested in just because it is free, and if I got your book now then it would have, in effect, cheated it's way past the other books, and would open the door for other books to cheat their way in, and then I'd be reading books because they're free, not because I wanted to read them.

    Waiting may mean having to pay for your book but I'm perfectly fine with that. :)

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #34 on: November 02, 2008, 01:26:15 pm »
    Sorry. It was intended as a gift, not to cheat you.

    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #35 on: November 02, 2008, 02:09:54 pm »
    Did I come across that badly?

    There's absolutely no need to apologize when you're being nice and you were very clearly being nice, this is all on my end. If The Pillars of the Earth and/or The Treasure of La Malinche turn out to be good reads then you have given me a gift that's far greater than the monetary price of a book as you're the one that helped me find them. I hope this makes sense as I know that some of the logic I use can be really bizarre.

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #36 on: November 02, 2008, 02:26:41 pm »
    Well Selcien, I have to admit that I was a little put off by the word cheating. As Ive gotten older, Im afraid Ive gotten thin-skinned in more ways than one.

    At the risk of offending you, do you know that you can download my book (or any Kindle compatible book on the internet) to your computer and upload it to your Kindle, or not, at your leisure? Its like having a book on the shelf read it or throw it away.

    Jeff

    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #37 on: November 02, 2008, 04:09:24 pm »
    I'm very thick skinned in regards to posting on forums as the vast majority of my experience with them has come from the IGN Boards (August 2000 to present). Those boards can be very hard on people that have a tendency to take things seriously, I've seen a number of people, including Moderators, just lose it because they couldn't handle the strength of other peoples opinions (sometimes when a person loses it they'll go on a rampage until a Moderator bans them).

    So it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to offend me unless you really go out of your way to do so, and if you managed it you'd be banned for posting links to very nasty pics, which is about the only way that you could really offend me. :) Personally, I'm worried that I may inadvertantly offend people than I am about getting offended myself. People are nice here and I don't know if I can be just as nice.

    To move on.

    I have serious issues with self control, which my credit card bill, prior to getting a loan to pay most of it off, could fully attest to, so it's really in my best interest if I try to maintain control as best as I can. The approach that I want to take with reading is to only have two books to read at any given time (one classic/one modern). I slightly lost control already as I overly compensated for the free books that I had gotten because they were free (deleted all of the books I had gotten because they were free and got books I was truly interested in to replace them), and ended up with four books to read, it's now three, but once I get back to two that's where I'd like it to stay. Get two books, read them, choose my next two books, read them, choose my next two books, read them, etc...

    I could put books onto my computer until I'm ready for them but to my way of thinking I would be choosing books before I'm ready to choose them by doing so. The reason it's so crucial is that I want to make sure that the books that I'm currently reading have a direct influence over the books that I choose to read next.

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #38 on: November 02, 2008, 06:27:41 pm »
    I understand, Selcien. Let me know if I can be of any help to you.

    Jeff

    Offline pidgeon92

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #39 on: November 02, 2008, 07:09:58 pm »
    Ooh, Selcien, it's not easy, is it? I think human nature is to want. I am always wanting something. Once it arrives, I am looking for the next thing.

    Thankfully, I don't get emotionally attached to stuff, it's as easy to get rid of as it was necessary to buy. But it's not cheap.
       my e-readers: Kindle 2 Kindle 3 nook iPad Sony-950

    Offline Selcien

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #40 on: November 03, 2008, 03:26:53 pm »
    I understand, Selcien. Let me know if I can be of any help to you.

    Jeff

    Actually, I could use some recommendations for long books that are well written, and are self contained, and are available on the Kindle (i.e. The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand is not available on the Kindle otherwise that'd be on my list to check out too).

    Basically, I've decided on some changes so I'll be getting around to looking into The Pillars of the Earth and The Treasure of La Malinche much sooner than anticipated. One of the changes came about because I finally read a little of the Mark Twain collection that I bought and quite frankly I felt like tossing it into the trash, so no more forced classics, it's a free for all from now on. *explanation* I was so focused on following up a strong recommendation, "...favorite book..." for Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court that I never bothered to do more than check the formatting. Huge mistake.

    I've also decided that I want to avoid tying myself into a series until later on, a trilogy should be okay, but anything beyond that will have to wait. Which brings me to this question. The Treasure of La Malinche is only two volumes? It seems to me that it's a book that got split in two but I want to make sure.

    And thanks for your help. :)

    Ooh, Selcien, it's not easy, is it? I think human nature is to want. I am always wanting something. Once it arrives, I am looking for the next thing.

    Thankfully, I don't get emotionally attached to stuff, it's as easy to get rid of as it was necessary to buy. But it's not cheap.


    I've been doing alot better with buying stuff since getting a debit card late last year. This year I have used my credit card twice, once for a game, which ironically enough I haven't even played yet, and for the Kindle.

    Getting rid of stuff though, I'm not so good at. I mean, I hate Cloverfield, but I still have the movie. *shrug*

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #41 on: November 03, 2008, 05:08:38 pm »
    Selcien,

    The only Ayn Rand eBook that I know of is Anthem.

    As for other recommendations, Mark Twain is one of my all time favorite authors so it appears that your reading taste and mine are far apart.

    You are correct, The Treasure of la Malinche is one book split into two because of printing size restrictions. Volume 1 does reach a climax but the story line is unresolved until the end of volume 2.


    Jeff

    Offline chynared21

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #42 on: November 03, 2008, 05:36:28 pm »


    Before you read my book let me warn you that the heroine has a dirty mouth.


    My kind of heroine ;-p

    I love "fat" books...my mom always told me there was good in fat books. I'm about 2/3 the way through Pillars of The Earth...I'm really enjoying it. I've been thinking of buying the Kindle version and starting from the beginning (yes, that good for me) to ease the strain on my hands :-))

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #43 on: November 03, 2008, 05:56:58 pm »


    Before you read my book let me warn you that the heroine has a dirty mouth.


    My kind of heroine ;-p

    I love "fat" books...my mom always told me there was good in fat books. I'm about 2/3 the way through Pillars of The Earth...I'm really enjoying it. I've been thinking of buying the Kindle version and starting from the beginning (yes, that good for me) to ease the strain on my hands :-))


    Somebody recently asked me why I made Maggie de Vega use such foul language and my answer was that it wasnt me, Maggie has a dirty mouth.
     ;)

    This is a little off topic but Ive been puzzled for years. In about 1989 my wife read Pillars of the Earth and gave it to me when she was finished. I read about a chapter and told her that Id read it. She said that wasnt possible because it was just published. I then proceeded to tell her the whole story line. Anybody know how that might be possible?

    Jeff

    Offline Leslie

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #44 on: November 03, 2008, 06:00:35 pm »


    Before you read my book let me warn you that the heroine has a dirty mouth.


    My kind of heroine ;-p

    I love "fat" books...my mom always told me there was good in fat books. I'm about 2/3 the way through Pillars of The Earth...I'm really enjoying it. I've been thinking of buying the Kindle version and starting from the beginning (yes, that good for me) to ease the strain on my hands :-))


    Somebody recently asked me why I made Maggie de Vega use such foul language and my answer was that it wasnt me, Maggie has a dirty mouth.
     ;)

    This is a little off topic but Ive been puzzled for years. In about 1989 my wife read Pillars of the Earth and gave it to me when she was finished. I read about a chapter and told her that Id read it. She said that wasnt possible because it was just published. I then proceeded to tell her the whole story line. Anybody know how that might be possible?

    Jeff


    Tom the Builder spoke to you and you knew the story.

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    Leslie Nicoll

    Offline chynared21

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #45 on: November 03, 2008, 06:01:17 pm »


    Somebody recently asked me why I made Maggie de Vega use such foul language and my answer was that it wasnt me, Maggie has a dirty mouth.
     ;)

    This is a little off topic but Ive been puzzled for years. In about 1989 my wife read Pillars of the Earth and gave it to me when she was finished. I read about a chapter and told her that Id read it. She said that wasnt possible because it was just published. I then proceeded to tell her the whole story line. Anybody know how that might be possible?

    Jeff

    Now that is interesting...

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #46 on: November 03, 2008, 06:08:04 pm »
    I walked into that, Leslie.  :D

    Offline Suzanne

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #47 on: November 03, 2008, 06:11:33 pm »
    Jeff, thank you so much for the copy of your book. I now have it on my Kindle and am looking forward to reading it. Your generosity is appreciated!

    I am a big book lover. I just finished Katherine by Anya Seton and had my hubby take it back to the library today. It was 700 pages. Not a War & Peace size, but I got to spend some time with the characters. That is one of my big gripes about smaller books, no sooner do you get to know them and you are turning the final page.

    Offline chynared21

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #48 on: November 03, 2008, 06:21:18 pm »
    That is one of my big gripes about smaller books, no sooner do you get to know them and you are turning the final page.
    That is the reason why I don't like skinny books...I end up feeling sad that a really good book is over way too soon.

    Offline Jeff

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    Re: BIG books
    « Reply #49 on: November 03, 2008, 06:24:15 pm »
    Jeff, thank you so much for the copy of your book. I now have it on my Kindle and am looking forward to reading it. Your generosity is appreciated!

    I am a big book lover. I just finished Katherine by Anya Seton and had my hubby take it back to the library today. It was 700 pages. Not a War & Peace size, but I got to spend some time with the characters. That is one of my big gripes about smaller books, no sooner do you get to know them and you are turning the final page.

    My pleasure. I hope you like it.

    In a week or so Ill take down the free version of volume 1 and put up volume 2.

    The downside of big books for me is that I get so attached to the characters that I feel like Ive lost a friend when I turn the last page. Do you ever feel like that?


    Jeff

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