Author Topic: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion  (Read 5046 times)  

Offline Edward C. Patterson

  • Status: Harvey Chute
  • *********
  • Posts: 13767
  • Gender: Male
  • Allentown, PA
  • Author of 38 Published Books
    • View Profile
    • Dancaster Creative - Authors Page
The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
« on: September 14, 2009, 10:46:05 am »
This extra topic area has been established for any discussion of spoiler in the thrid part, especailly the surprise turn of events. Spoilers aloowed here.

I post some questions here later in the week and some observations, especially some behind the scenes in writing the OLD SHEEP sections, which was quite a trial for me.

In the meantime, ask questions. Make remarks and discus it freely here.

Ed P
AUTHOR of 38 Published Books

KBoards.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Offline Edward C. Patterson

    • Status: Harvey Chute
    • *********
    • Posts: 13767
    • Gender: Male
    • Allentown, PA
    • Author of 38 Published Books
      • View Profile
      • Dancaster Creative - Authors Page
    Re: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
    « Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 09:33:27 pm »
    Okay, this thread had no takers, so I'll express what my beta-readers of the Jade Owl series expressed. Each one (and there were 25 of them) when Rowdy and Nick are arrested, sent me feedback that they were surprised at this turn of events. They loved it, and told me it humanized the characters to a new level. I told them the reasons for this turn of events from an author's point of view.

    1 - What I needed Rowdy and Nick to do in the balance of this book, required them to be so close and so familiar that I had to give them a life-threatening situation.
    2 - I needed a human villain so vile (you ain't done with him yet), that the reader feels like kicking him in the head and other places.
    3 - I needed Nick to deteriorate (for many reasons that are upcoming)
    4 - I needed to present a different and fairer view of the Chinese system of justice. Bao Ben-ch'u (Benbo Baggins) is one view - cruel and malicious, but the other view is more important. Lu Xing, the face of modern China, a figure important for the rest of the series. The system of Chinese justice is textbook and real. Although it feels odd to us, we must recall that in the world's total population, Westerners and Western jurisprudence is the minority view.
    5 - I needed motivations for future developments, especially with blanket boy and the transfer of Moe the pen (the Tale of Moe goes to the end).
    6 - I needed to reintroduce Bradley Moorehouse into the story. What better way.
    7 - I needed a near death experience to bond Nick and Rowden so closely that their friendship rises to a fever pitch.

    This was a difficult section to write. Authors have a mechanic called POV, and there's a rule that when writing any given section in 3rd person limited view point, you can never pop out of one Point of View into another (head hoping). Head hoping is 3rd person omniscient and few modern authors are proficient at it (I'm reading an author now, Michael Hicks, who is a master at it). However, in the Old Sheep section I introduce a way to break the POV rules, because Nick and Rowden are becoming telephatic. So I was able to jump from POV to POV without violation. This switch in mode I keep for the rest of the series.

    That Rowden and Nick get out of this situation is no surprise, because if they didn't, you wouldn't have another 3,000 pages of the series to read.  ;D However, the fact that I would allow them to get into this situation is the surprise. The actual experience they had in there was based on a combination of some text I read concerning Chinese detention centers and books on Japanese concentation camps. I also saw a detention center (outside - and it looked like I described it). China has no prisons. You are never sentenced to TIME. That is not a punishment in Chinese culture. Besides, the Chinese find prisons costly (duh - like we don't know that), and have never adopted them. You are detained, tried (read: judged - in Imperial China, the same judging system prevailed only the Magistrate was usually the local official (see The Academician)), and punished - which has varied over the centuries. When I was in China, there was a public execution and a display of the remains in the People's History Museum. Our guide, Peter Tang (the prototype for Thomas Ch'en) escorted us into the People's History Museum and told us there were certain exhibits that day that we were forbidden to see. Good thing. (By the way, the crime that day was - Sexual Harassment. Five Chinese son of officials were sexually harassing their underlings. They were tried and executed. Can you imagine what that would do to the office scene in America). Also I often wonder what happened to Peter Tang. He was an ouspoken, lieral Guide and told us many anti-state things. This was all before Tien-an-men Square massacre. (Ann, you were corect that Thomas Ch'en's brother fell at Tien-an-men. That came about with my thinking of Peter Tang, and also perhaps Huang T'ou, our guide in Gui-lin, who is the bases for Huang Li-fa - little cricket).

    The tribunal follows the current Chinese method, even to Wu Ch'e-k'ai's right to examine the defendants. Of course, the discussion of justice and truth is less Chinese than part of the novel, because Justice and Truth is an underlying theme of the series. (one of the themes).

    The iconic scene, for me as an author, is Rowden calling Nick back to life (something that his counterpart in the Southern Swallow series also does). Rowden hears the horn. (You shall all hear the horn before I'm don with yer). The passion of friendship is the keynote here, and echoes the tomb scene at the end of The Jade Owl. An author who designs a novel does so with patterns that weave the cloth until its symmetric (ask Betsy the Quilter). Echoes, repetition of images and even dialog is all part of the weave.

    Anyhow - the Third Peregrination has just begun. Hold onto your hats folks because the rest of the novel is a roller coaster ride. Weeeee!  ;D
    AUTHOR of 38 Published Books

    Offline Ann in Arlington

    • Global Moderator
    • Status: Shakespeare
    • *****
    • Posts: 67011
    • Not really a moderator. :)
      • View Profile
    Re: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
    « Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 05:34:27 am »
    O.K. . . . all clear. . . . .I guess I didn't think if it as 'surprise' but more an unexpected plot twist. . . .without which it would be a boring book. . . . .

    One thing with formatting. . . .it seems like you go to italics when Nick and Rowdy are talking telepathically -- which makes perfect sense -- except sometimes it seems like the italics go on well past their mental conversation. . . .not sure if it's intentional, and it IS part of their mental conversation, or a formatting oops.  Noticed it several times in chapters 9 and 10 of this section.  Have not yet gone on to part 4.
    My Kindles
    Hermoine's Handbag (Voyage)
    Ed's (Voyage Refurb)
    Bedtime Reading (Oasis 9)
    Godric's Hollow (Basic 7)
    My Tardis (PW 10)

    Offline Edward C. Patterson

    • Status: Harvey Chute
    • *********
    • Posts: 13767
    • Gender: Male
    • Allentown, PA
    • Author of 38 Published Books
      • View Profile
      • Dancaster Creative - Authors Page
    Re: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
    « Reply #3 on: September 30, 2009, 06:02:22 am »
    No, that is not intentional. Word has a diabotlical way for extending and deformating (unformatting) italics if you don't know whatcha doing precisely. And, of course, Kindle conversion doesn't reverse it. It's a smattering through The Jade Owl, but I know now how to fix it and in the next maintenance release, I will do it. I learned by the time I wrote The Academician that if you select an entire line of normal style text (in my case a style called Novel Style), it italicized the entire manuscript - then when you undo, it does UnDo, but does not restore paragraphs that begin with italics. You don't know how many times I went through the manuscript to catch them all, but they don't show up until after conversion. In the Academician, each chapter is wrapped in 1st person narrative and it entirely italicized. So I created a separate style called "Novel Narr" which protects the italicized sections when (and if, I don;t do it as much) I convert a line to italics. In word, you need to select a portion of the sentence, italicize and then the rest, and italicize. Wow. To be an author, you need to be a computer wizard too (or at least a power user). However, I don;t know how Hemmingway did it with just a typewriter (and not on a Selectric).  ;D

    Ed P

    Actually, I do. I typed my Master's thesis on a portable typewriting and used white out for errors. When it was microfiched, it bombed and I was asked (a week before the final deadline) to retype it. I sat in bed (with tonsillitis) pounding away, and every time I had an error started the page over again. It was a good thing the thing is only 300 pages long.  :D
    AUTHOR of 38 Published Books

    Offline dnagirl

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 611
    • Gender: Female
    • My secret la-bor-ahhhh-tory
      • View Profile
    Re: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
    « Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 03:44:15 pm »
    Ed, I really liked the surprise.  The entirely different justice system was fascinating.  I've seen movies/read other books about work camps/prisons in some of the other countries around the world and the way justice is doled out...frankly we have it pretty damn good here.

    As for Baggins, I didn't think I could dislike someone more than Mrs. Wu, but I do.  I'm hoping he gets a real good comeuppance when his time comes, because that is one dude who deserves it.  The brutality, lack of compassion and his sadistic ways are just incomprehensible to me.

    A question:  In China, if someone is found guilty for a crime that is not punishable by execution, are they stuck in a work camp for the rest of their lives, or are there sometimes limits to the time they have to spend there?
    To read is to fly: it is to soar to a point of vantage which gives a view over wide terrains of history, human variety, ideas, shared experience and the fruits of many inquiries.
     
    - A C Grayling

    Offline Edward C. Patterson

    • Status: Harvey Chute
    • *********
    • Posts: 13767
    • Gender: Male
    • Allentown, PA
    • Author of 38 Published Books
      • View Profile
      • Dancaster Creative - Authors Page
    Re: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
    « Reply #5 on: January 09, 2010, 04:00:27 pm »
    In China, prisons are not the rule (although we shal get a glimpse of some more horrible plaes in The People's Treasure). Traditionally, punishmnts in China have been xecution (2 types - plain and traitors-death, see The Academician for that one), beatings with various ights of a bambook pole, incision of the nose or other body parts, or exile. Exile was horrible considering that you would be parted fom your family, and also you might not get to your lace of exile. Today, you are set to be rehabilitated (read: work in detention usually a period of 1 to 2 years, although there are opportunities or a 5 year extension). Detention Centers are comounds to adminster this punishment. Executions used to be a simple bullet through the head and in public. When I went to China, they had a display of the aftermath of a public execution at the People's History Museum on Tien-an Men square, and the crime was "rape and harassment in the workplace" for 5 sons of party officials. So murder is not necessarily the worst crime. Nowadays, executions are by lethal injection and you are generally under house arrest and the Death Mobile comes to you You get into the van and they do it there. So much neater and less obtrusive. Execution by housecall. Almost every day the new York Times has something on the Chinese penal system and no matter how much I think I know, I'm constantly surprised.

    The Chinese pride themselves on having the world's most superior justice system - the rest of us having it all wrong.  ;D

    Ed P
    AUTHOR of 38 Published Books

    Offline dnagirl

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 611
    • Gender: Female
    • My secret la-bor-ahhhh-tory
      • View Profile
    Re: The Third Peregrination-Week III (SPOILERS ALLOWED) Discussion
    « Reply #6 on: January 09, 2010, 04:35:16 pm »
    Thanks for the explanation, Ed.
    To read is to fly: it is to soar to a point of vantage which gives a view over wide terrains of history, human variety, ideas, shared experience and the fruits of many inquiries.
     
    - A C Grayling

    KBoards.com

    • Advertisement
    • ***