Author Topic: Anyone a Historical Mystery fan? (Read 33288 times) Tweet

Linjeakel · « **Reply #350 on:** August 08, 2020, 06:45:31 am »

I have the advantage of having discovered the St. Cyr books rather later than you guys. When I say 'discovered' I mean of course enabled and enticed by the contributors to this thread.

I've only read three so far, so by my reckoning I still have about twelve left to read.

I keep changing my mind as to whether I want to devour a whole series in one go so I can find out what happens or keep swapping between all the other series I'm reading so they all last a bit longer. Decisions, decisions ..... $:-\$

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Trophywife007 · « **Reply #351 on:** August 08, 2020, 09:34:48 am »

I've only read the first three, as well... trying to parse them out!

I'm 5 chapters in on Maisie Dobbs by Jacqueline Winspear... so far so good, but set in 1929 so I don't know that it's as "historical" as some might prefer and located in London so I can picture her in the underground which is fun.

Linjeakel · « **Reply #352 on:** August 18, 2020, 09:10:15 am »

So far as I can tell, books by US authors published in the UK retain their US spelling - do UK authors' books keep their UK spelling when published in the US?

I ask as I'm currently reading book 4 in the St Cyr series and I must mention something that continues to strike me as, well, out of place.

So far as I can discover the author is American and the books certainly have US spelling. I read many books by US authors and it normally doesn't bother me in the slightest. But US spelling in a book about 19th century England somehow tends to stand out.

It doesn't really hinder my enjoyment of the books, but I do notice it, especially when it's a less common word. I just came across the word 'plow' (English spelling 'plough') which I'm not sure I've ever seen before and for a moment I had no idea what it meant. In at least one of the previous books in the series the word 'sidewalk' was used instead of 'pavement'.

It seems a shame that the author goes to all the trouble of researching 19th England to get all the details, including the language and dialects correct, but still uses US spelling and words.

Thoughts?

Trophywife007 · « **Reply #353 on:** August 18, 2020, 09:54:31 am »

You bring up a good point, Linjeakel. It seems that in the past I did read books (perhaps by English authors?) that used British words and spelling, but not so much lately. I'd like to see that occur -- makes sense, really.

Atunah · « **Reply #354 on:** August 18, 2020, 09:55:21 am »

I am guessing this was done by the publisher for the american audience. I can imagine that being annoying to you. Pavement doesn't really describe a sidewalk in american english. Its more generic for paved things, not just sidewalks. So maybe they were trying to keep confusion at bay. I actually wouldn't mind it being in english instead of american. There are books I read that are written by authors from across the pond and if there is something I am not familiar with, I look it up. I do it all the time. So next time I read it I know.

I am probably too inside the St. Cyr stories to recall really what words were americanized.

I am curious though if that was done originally by the author, or changed by the editor/publisher later.

Koi · « **Reply #355 on:** August 18, 2020, 10:54:42 am »

I don�t know when plough changed to plow. I live in the US and grew up taught to spell it plough. Which made findingthe plow and hearth website a challenge.

I�ve read an introduction to.... I don�t remember which books, that mentioned �some� of the colloquialism from the UK had been changed for the American audience. That ticked me off no end. I know spelling and slang is often altered, and I want NONE of that. NO ALTERATIONS. If I wanted it to read like I was at home, I�d buy a book set here. If I want to read a book set somewhere in the UK.... leave it alone and let me enjoy the differences, publishers

Ann in Arlington · « **Reply #356 on:** August 18, 2020, 11:24:54 am »

I don't know that I notice one way or the other. I am pretty much bilingual when it comes to American vs British English.

I will notice if it keeps jumping back and forth -- you know: they talk about wearing sweaters in one chapter and jumpers in the next. The only time that works for me is if there are clearly both American and British characters and they use the words that make sense for who they are.

I guess as long as the overall atmosphere is right, I don't even notice much in 'period pieces'. I've certainly never been distracted by Americanisms in any of the St. Cyr books. And there are definitely period words and phrases -- "tiger" comes to mind immediately, meaning his young groom/carriage boy.

Linjeakel · « **Reply #357 on:** August 19, 2020, 09:40:02 am »

Quote from: Ann in Arlington on August 18, 2020, 11:24:54 am

.... And there are definitely period words and phrases -- "tiger" comes to mind immediately, meaning his young groom/carriage boy.

You're right, there are any number of period words and phrases like that, many of which are going to be unfamiliar wherever you're from - and I suppose if the author is American she just spells everything else as she's always done. As a British person I just found the use of obviously English historical words like 'nuncheon' and 'jarvey' etc, alongside words like 'plow' 'color', neighborhood' and 'sidewalk' an odd combination.

As I said, normally I hardly notice it with the more common words, but occasionally a less common word will stand out more. I think I only noticed it here because it's a clearly historical English setting. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the books - I just wondered whether any other non-US readers noticed it.

Trophywife007 · « **Reply #358 on:** August 19, 2020, 05:59:52 pm »

I confess I was unfamiliar with the word "jarvey". I do wish they used more historical English language, even if I have to look them up. I find it interesting. I suppose an author should go with the English spelling, as well, so that it doesn't take British readers out of the story. I used to read Victoria Holt and Mary Stewart and I think they used English spelling, not American.

On a related topic, I think the English put most punctuation marks outside of quotation marks rather than inside it like we do in America? The English way makes much more sense to me.

Linjeakel · « **Reply #359 on:** August 20, 2020, 08:29:25 am »

Quote from: Trophywife007 on August 19, 2020, 05:59:52 pm

On a related topic, I think the English put most punctuation marks outside of quotation marks rather than inside it like we do in America? The English way makes much more sense to me.

Ummm.... no. I think you'll find we put punctuation marks - full stop (period), comma, question mark etc - inside of quotes. I've just randomly picked out a book by a British author and this is a sample:-

Quote

'It's lovely,' I said softly, carefully not touching the material. 'The detail is superb. Sadly, it's a bit modern for me.'

That is how I would expect to see dialogue punctuated. Or did you mean something else?

Trophywife007 · « **Reply #360 on:** August 20, 2020, 08:41:27 am »

Maybe the sources I've seen over the years are incorrect. Here's a link to an example:

https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/british-versus-american-style.html

It's just something I found interesting.

Linjeakel · « **Reply #361 on:** August 20, 2020, 11:03:34 am »

Quote from: Trophywife007 on August 20, 2020, 08:41:27 am

Maybe the sources I've seen over the years are incorrect. Here's a link to an example:

https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/british-versus-american-style.html

It's just something I found interesting.

Yes, interesting!

The quote within a quote thing is so complicated I've no idea how I would do it - single or double etc - but I normally would put a full stop at the end, rather than before a quote, single or double. I was taught to put a full stop after Mr. or Mrs. though I often don't and I think I'm just as likely to use a colon as a full stop for times. I had no idea that one was considered correct and the other not.

To be honest, I think that the world has changed a lot in recent years, particularly because of the internet with people from all parts of the world taking part in online conversations - just as we are - that all but the most pedantic of grammar fiends probably use a mixture of rules from all over. I tend to just use what looks right to me, mostly out of habit, regardless of whether it's technically correct in the UK or not.

Ann in Arlington · « **Reply #362 on:** August 20, 2020, 02:52:33 pm »

I think there's a lot of crossover nowadays between British and American punctuation standards. For me, the thing is to be consistent.

I've seen a lot of older books published in the UK where there is NEVER a period (full stop) after Mr or Mrs whereas it's pretty much always been the norm in the US. But maybe that's different now? I've not really noticed it in newer books, I admit.

As to quotation marks, the rule in US is ALWAYS put the punctuation (. , ; ?) inside the closing quotes. But, again, in British usage, I've often seen the quotation marks on the inside, depending on the circumstances. Not so much in dialog, but when using quotes for emphasis, or when using quotes to refer to the title of something.

So, when it's dialog, like

She said, "Go to the store."

it makes perfect sense to put the period inside because it's actually the ending of the quoted sentence. And, of course, a second period outside the " would be really silly.

But in a sentence like this:

The book was called "My Trip to the Store".

I think having the period on the outside makes more sense. The title isn't "My Trip to the Store." but, rather "My Trip to the Store" so the "." is not part of it.

US English teachers I've known would have one do it like this

The book was called "My Trip to the Store."

I've never thought this made sense in US usage.

Linjeakel · « **Reply #363 on:** August 21, 2020, 06:00:23 am »

I think those two examples clear up the inconsistencies that Trophywife may have seen.

I would have to agree with Ann that in the second example the full stop should be on the outside of the quotes. I didn't realise that in the US you were taught differently. I would say that I think we might put the book title in single quotes. (But don't quote me on that!)

And to further add to that, the quote in a quote would be therefore be:-

She said, "I think the book is called 'My Trip To The Store'."

Anyhow, to get back on topic

I have now read St Cyr book 4 - the last of the cheap ones I was able to get of the early books in the series. I now have to pay full price until I get to about book 12 when I have another few books bought at bargain prices. Unless Amazon takes pity on me and reduces some of the others. Pretty please, oh mighty 'Zon. *bats eyelashes*.

Trophywife007 · « **Reply #364 on:** August 21, 2020, 08:50:10 am »

Ann explained it beautifully and, yes, that is what I was thinking. Thank you.

Linjeakel, I wish I could sign you up at my overdrive library as all the St.Cyr books are available there. With all the books we have available on OverDrive, it has cut way down on my Amazon bill.

Ann in Arlington · « **Reply #365 on:** August 21, 2020, 01:35:35 pm »

Well, I think we are all in agreement regarding " and ' and .

(Except I desperately want to put another "." at the end of that last sentence, but it just seems wrong.)

As to libraries .... I am sorry, Linda, that yours doesn't carry the St. Cyr books.

Like Tw007, I've borrowed all of them from my library.

Andra · « **Reply #366 on:** August 22, 2020, 01:57:29 pm »

I show book 12 of the St Cyr mysteries (Where the Dead Lie) on sale for $1.99.
I wish they were lendable - I have all of them I think and I'd be willing to share...

crebel · « **Reply #367 on:** August 22, 2020, 05:50:24 pm »

Quote from: Andra on August 22, 2020, 01:57:29 pm

I show book 12 of the St Cyr mysteries (Where the Dead Lie) on sale for $1.99.
I wish they were lendable - I have all of them I think and I'd be willing to share...

Either she is putting that one on sale regularly or it is sort of permanently marked down to that price. I bought it for $1.99 in January of this year. I now have books 1, 2, 3, 10, and 12 in my Kindle library and hope to fill in some of the gaps between 3 and 10! I'm okay with paying $7.99 for those books when I get there, but for some reason that one dollar difference at $8.99 irritates me and so I haven't gone past reading Book 3. They are not available at my library.

Andra · « **Reply #368 on:** August 24, 2020, 05:57:46 am »

I got most of my St Cyr books for what I consider a "reasonable" price. Looks like $7.99 for seven of them, $8.99 for one, $11.68 for the one released in April, and then $5 and under for the rest.
But I cherry-picked them for quite a while before filling in most of them last year.

Ann in Arlington · « **Reply #369 on:** September 06, 2020, 04:23:05 am »

Crosspost (warning: Enabling in progress)

I found a new series that I think y'all will enjoy.

It's The Ravenwood Mysteries by Sabrina Flynn. I think it first came across my radar via a Facebook ad. I borrowed the first one through Prime reading back in May and read it yesterday. Definitely a find. As far as I can tell, they're all in KU.

The series is set in San Francisco around the turn of the 20th century; here's a link to my review on GoodReads:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/3532857781

And a link to the book on Amazon:

crebel · « **Reply #370 on:** September 06, 2020, 03:20:53 pm »

I went back quite a few pages in this thread trying to find a reference about Elizabeth Bailey's "Lady Fan" historical mysteries. I didn't find anything, but can't imagine how else I would have found them - maybe checking also-boughts for books we have talked about.

Anyway, I have been binge reading through this now 6-book series and thoroughly enjoying them. Inexpensive if purchasing, available in KU if you are a subscriber. This is Book 1:

Trophywife007 · « **Reply #371 on:** September 07, 2020, 09:36:03 am »

Thanks, Crebel. I've been looking for something and this looks like it will fit the bill.

... I'm in chapter 3 and enjoying very much. Thank you for this!

Thanks to Ann in Arlington, too; I picked that one up also but just was drawn to Crebel's rec. first.

Andra · « **Reply #372 on:** September 08, 2020, 09:33:56 am »

I think the Lady Fan books were mentioned somewhere in here because I started reading them a while back. I really enjoyed them - especially the KU part

crebel · « **Reply #373 on:** October 07, 2020, 11:13:34 am »

Quote from: Trophywife007 on September 07, 2020, 09:36:03 am

Thanks, Crebel. I've been looking for something and this looks like it will fit the bill.

... I'm in chapter 3 and enjoying very much. Thank you for this!

Thanks to Ann in Arlington, too; I picked that one up also but just was drawn to Crebel's rec. first.

Quote from: Andra on September 08, 2020, 09:33:56 am

I think the Lady Fan books were mentioned somewhere in here because I started reading them a while back. I really enjoyed them - especially the KU part

Did the 2 of you keep reading these? I really have liked them, but have to say she continually, in every book, uses the phrase about someone getting "their just desserts" only it's always "just deserts". It throws me every time. Is there ever case where desert instead of dessert is correct??

I know we had a discussion one time about "to the manner/manor born" and both were correct, but I can't get past this one as anything but a consistently wrong spelling error.

Linjeakel · « **Reply #374 on:** October 08, 2020, 08:14:30 am »

Anyone here read the Inspector Sam Blackstone mysteries? They're set in the late Victorian era, mostly in London, but in other parts of the world too and pretty good.

It's a ten book series and I've read the first six and enjoyed them. Then I went to get #7. Up to now they've been available in KU, but I've just discovered that the final four in the series have been released by a different publisher and not only are they not in KU, but the purchase price is more than three times the price of the earlier books.

I'm really frustrated (actually more than frustrated but KB won't let me use that word!). I want to read the rest of the series but I somehow feel more cheated by this than if I'd had to buy them from the start. At least then I could have made the decision not to begin and not get invested. /rant

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