Author Topic: OK, who hacked Amazon?  (Read 7982 times)  

Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2017, 08:46:53 am »
IT companies are building an ever-more-complex web of systems that have absolutely no redundancy and all fail at the same time.. Just so managers can get a bonus for reducing short-term costs.


While there is absolutely a risk of cascading failures, I'm not sure where you get "absolutely no redundancy." This is what I do for my day job and if anything the trend is in the direction of more redundancy. The Amazon cloud has tremendous redundancy. It is accurate to say that there are cost-based decisions which get made by customers that have the effect of reducing redundancy, but that really has very little to do with managers and bonuses. It has to do with the fact that in complex systems (like in life) there are always trade-offs. You can always add more redundancy - where do you draw the line? The decisions should be and often are made using cost-benefit-risk analysis techniques.

If you want to worry about risk to the system, worry about social engineering as mechanism for hacking. In the rush to point fingers at technical problems, most people completely ignore this far greater risk to the system.
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    Offline AmesburyArcher

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #76 on: March 01, 2017, 08:51:17 am »
    I've had only ONE sale today. I cannot even remember when I last had one lone sale. I had no page reads till about half-two either. I still have the 'delayed' message showing. Bah, this has rather ruined my new release (which doesn't even have a Look Inside at all yet.)
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    Offline Anarchist

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #77 on: March 01, 2017, 08:52:43 am »
    While there is absolutely a risk of cascading failures, I'm not sure where you get "absolutely no redundancy." This is what I do for my day job and if anything the trend is in the direction of more redundancy. The Amazon cloud has tremendous redundancy. It is accurate to say that there are cost-based decisions which get made by customers that have the effect of reducing redundancy, but that really has very little to do with managers and bonuses. It has to do with the fact that in complex systems (like in life) there are always trade-offs. You can always add more redundancy - where do you draw the line? The decisions should be and often are made using cost-benefit-risk analysis techniques.

    This.

    Yes, S3 stacking is a problem that imposes risk. But constructing a bulletproof infrastructure is cost prohibitive. If Amazon offered "100% redundancy" (whatever that means) and guaranteed "100% uptime," it would likely only be able to do so at a cost considered exorbitant by some of its customers.

    It would lose customers.

    That's inconsistent with Amazon's mission: sector domination.
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    Offline Not any more

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #78 on: March 01, 2017, 09:03:42 am »
    While there is absolutely a risk of cascading failures, I'm not sure where you get "absolutely no redundancy." This is what I do for my day job and if anything the trend is in the direction of more redundancy. The Amazon cloud has tremendous redundancy. It is accurate to say that there are cost-based decisions which get made by customers that have the effect of reducing redundancy, but that really has very little to do with managers and bonuses. It has to do with the fact that in complex systems (like in life) there are always trade-offs. You can always add more redundancy - where do you draw the line? The decisions should be and often are made using cost-benefit-risk analysis techniques.

    If you want to worry about risk to the system, worry about social engineering as mechanism for hacking. In the rush to point fingers at technical problems, most people completely ignore this far greater risk to the system.
    Yeah, I've worked with large data centers, and I'm inclined to think they had some kind of control software failure that affected multiple devices at multiple levels. The thing about redundancy, is the trade off in online commerce is speed. The transaction I'm engaged in and the transaction Mary Sue is engaged in to buy the same book may be hitting multiple servers with a distributed database. If a router goes down between them and the database gets out of sync, and if that happens to multiple routers and multiple database servers, you can end up with a mess. And despite all the technology, if the brightest boy or girl in the room hasn't seen that exact problem before, or if you're dealing with hardware/software from different vendors, keeping people engaged in fixing the problem rather than pointing fingers can be a challenge. I've had to appoint someone to the very necessary task of guarding the server room door to keep management out so people could do their work rather than answering stupid questions.
    This post remains on KBoards over my objections.

    Offline Jonathan C. Gillespie

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #79 on: March 01, 2017, 09:16:52 am »
    Complexity of infrastructure is simply a bridge with more beams. Each beam provides additional strength, but all systems are vulnerable to cascade effects, physically or otherwise. The same is true with any IT construct. This is why SLA's are always %99+change, where each decimal point beyond is much more expensive to achieve than the previous.


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    Offline edwardgtalbot

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #80 on: March 01, 2017, 09:20:52 am »
    I've had to appoint someone to the very necessary task of guarding the server room door to keep management out so people could do their work rather than answering stupid questions.

    Although I've never had to do this exact thing, I have encountered similar problems! I have more than once answered a query about when something would be fixed with "five minutes later for every time you ask me."

    There are a lot of tradeoffs for speed of redundancy. 25 years ago, business had a "time to bankruptcy" for critical systems being down. It's not that simple now of course.

    And regarding Anarchist's comment I think it's mostly right except that this challenge goes way beyond Amazon. Every large business faces it. In the case of Amazon providing infrastructure, they provide several uptime options for customers. If someone wants as close as possible to 100% uptime and it willing to pay for, Amazon will do it. They also offer cheaper options with far less uptime.
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    Offline Steven Kelliher

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #81 on: March 01, 2017, 09:28:46 am »
    Exactly what I'm seeing as well. All today the reads filled in to replace what should have come through yesterday . . . to the detriment of today's reads. Usually I have about 25k on my book by now, but I'm at 5k. Yesterday ended up at 47k, but the two days prior to yesterday were 67k and 65k. So a lot of page reads still missing.

    My god.

    I'd kill for those numbers in a given day. :(

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    Offline AmpersandBookInteriors

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #82 on: March 01, 2017, 10:37:20 am »
    My god.

    I'd kill for those numbers in a given day. :(

    Something to shoot for. Getting sticky ain't easy.

    Just do what I do and close your eyes! LOL


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    Offline Anarchist

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #83 on: March 01, 2017, 10:42:21 am »
    there's a notice on the KDP dash now saying reporting is delayed.

    The notice is now gone. I suspect many of us will never be fully credited for yesterday's sales/reads.

    C'est la vie.
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    Offline edwardgtalbot

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #84 on: March 01, 2017, 10:46:02 am »
    Yep, the notice is gone. My numbers are normally small enough that a day or two of nothing isn't out of the realm of normal. But I actually ramped up my AMS ads a bit two days ago and despite having twice the number of clicks on the keywords that were getting clicks and sales before, I have no sales or reads for two days on KDP. It's one thing if ads just aren't getting impressions or clicks but if the same ad text and keywords with a higher budget now yields nothing. . .pretty frustrating.
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    Offline GeneDoucette

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #85 on: March 01, 2017, 10:59:54 am »
    Really small numbers today and yesterday, and I'm talking about sales here, not page reads.

    Offline Not any more

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #86 on: March 01, 2017, 11:10:50 am »
    I beg to differ. I just refreshed and the notice is still there. Things are sluggish at best. Still no pre-orders since yesterday morning when I've been averaging 15-20 a day, with 43 the day before things crashed. Both of my new books, the released one and the pre-order have dived in the rankings. The one book hasn't been ranked this low ever. Since they're holding rank in the sub-cat lists, the only thing I can guess is the recovery is uneven.
    This post remains on KBoards over my objections.

    Offline edwardgtalbot

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #87 on: March 01, 2017, 11:30:45 am »
    I beg to differ. I just refreshed and the notice is still there. Things are sluggish at best. Still no pre-orders since yesterday morning when I've been averaging 15-20 a day, with 43 the day before things crashed. Both of my new books, the released one and the pre-order have dived in the rankings. The one book hasn't been ranked this low ever. Since they're holding rank in the sub-cat lists, the only thing I can guess is the recovery is uneven.

    I'm also seeing the rankings going down on my new release after staying in a range the first 17 days. Yes, it's possible that coincidentally it just happened to drop the one day Amazon has system issues. More likely is that the technical problems caused the algorithms to have problems. My speculation is that no sales data was lost but that the normal patterns for sales were disrupted. Probably overall sales were lower but also some authors won't see much difference and others will see a lot. Obviously stinks if one is doing a new release :(

    It would be great if I'm wrong and the only issue is that the data is not fully restored yet.
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    Offline lyndabelle

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #88 on: March 01, 2017, 12:00:31 pm »
    Nothing on my sales board or reads. It's like everything was wiped clean, and got to start over. *Sigh* I wonder if the failure wiped all the data too. All those promos in February to get traction, down the drain, maybe.

    Trying to set up a newsletter sign-up reward on Instafreebie, and that isn't working still too.

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    Offline MarilynVix

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #89 on: March 01, 2017, 12:03:02 pm »
    Anyone else finding sales and reads still painfully slow today? I'm at maybe a third of my usual, even though the "Reporting is currently delayed message" has gone for me above my graph.

    That said, it vanished for a while earlier, but then came back, so not sure what's happening with it.

    Everything flat lined yesterday and I was wondering why. Then, found this thread. Dang. I thought it was because the month ended or something. Looks like it is worse.

    Was having good progress with a few sales and page reads, and then things just died yesterday. Still hasn't picked up. All that momentum build up over February, gone. Sad.

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    Offline Starstruck

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #90 on: March 01, 2017, 12:23:22 pm »
    My pages read have caught up finally and are what I would expect for yesterday and today.  However, sales seem really low to me.  My sales were down 30% yesterday and are even lower today.  The "reporting delay" banner has been taken off my KDP dashboard, but I hope that things will pick up soon.  I also haven't had any pre-orders since yesterday morning.

    Offline Not any more

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #91 on: March 01, 2017, 01:07:25 pm »
    Curiouser and curiouser. My dashboard reports haven't moved. My AMS reports say I'm selling books, and my rankings are rising.
    This post remains on KBoards over my objections.

    Offline MikeRyan

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #92 on: March 01, 2017, 01:31:08 pm »
    My pages read have caught up finally and are what I would expect for yesterday and today.  However, sales seem really low to me.  My sales were down 30% yesterday and are even lower today.  The "reporting delay" banner has been taken off my KDP dashboard, but I hope that things will pick up soon.  I also haven't had any pre-orders since yesterday morning.


    Same here. My page reads are looking normal but sales are really low from usual. I don't have the "reporting delay" thing either. Hopefully it's just taking a while for the sales to come in!

    Offline Starstruck

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #93 on: March 01, 2017, 01:52:53 pm »
    Curiouser and curiouser. My dashboard reports haven't moved. My AMS reports say I'm selling books, and my rankings are rising.

    Just checked my rank and it has gone up in the past hour even though my sales haven't been moving.  Strange.  I'm positively, tentatively optimistic that it's just taking a while for things to catch up on the dashboard.  I still wish my pre-orders would update though.

    Offline Wired

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #94 on: March 01, 2017, 03:29:44 pm »
    I'm selling books but my ranks are decaying. :(

    Offline Not any more

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #95 on: March 01, 2017, 03:43:58 pm »
    Some things just caught up. My pre-orders stopped yesterday morning and hadn't moved until half an hour ago. An additional 12 were added to yesterday and 14 for today showed up at the same time.
    This post remains on KBoards over my objections.

    Offline JaclynDolamore

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #96 on: March 01, 2017, 04:11:18 pm »
    Some things just caught up. My pre-orders stopped yesterday morning and hadn't moved until half an hour ago. An additional 12 were added to yesterday and 14 for today showed up at the same time.

    Yep, same thing just happened to me in the past hour...4 preorders added, including one from yesterday.

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    Offline dragontucker

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #97 on: March 01, 2017, 04:54:35 pm »
    My sales have not moved since around around 10 am. Is anyone else experiencing this? Usually my sales are updating quickly lately.

    Offline A past poster

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #98 on: March 01, 2017, 05:42:27 pm »
    My sales have not moved since around around 10 am. Is anyone else experiencing this? Usually my sales are updating quickly lately.

    Yesterday my sales were half of what they normally are, and today they are half of what they were yesterday. I didn't pause the AMS ads, which I think was a mistake. I'm wondering now if I should pause them.

    Offline Accord64

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    Re: OK, who hacked Amazon?
    « Reply #99 on: March 02, 2017, 04:07:58 am »
    Yesterday my sales were half of what they normally are, and today they are half of what they were yesterday. I didn't pause the AMS ads, which I think was a mistake. I'm wondering now if I should pause them.

    I didn't pause my AMS ads either. It wasn't until the next morning when the reports updated, which showed an increase in impressions/clicks. However, my sales flat-lined and there's been nothing since. I have to assume that the KDP dashboard is now up to date, so there were really no sales.

    While it's impossible to conclude that the outage torpedoed my AMS campaign, I'm sure it didn't help. 

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