Author Topic: A New AMS Thread  (Read 100568 times)  

Offline MichaelRyan

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Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #725 on: June 06, 2018, 09:12:34 am »
I took the Udemy course by Cassie Leigh, Easy AMS Ads.

I found it well done and informative, a good value.  Now, it's off to read her book, AND then I'm going to study some FB advertising instructions.

Basically I'm having to embrace DID...

Blah.

Well, seeing as I have a book that's ranked at 500,000 and has no sales, while at the same time having positive editorial reviews from 4 best selling writers in the same (or similar) genres...it makes sense to advertise. And here I thought I'd become organically discovered and become the next Hugh Howey (minus the yacht...I want a penthouse in the city).

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    Offline Simon Haynes

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #726 on: June 06, 2018, 09:46:59 am »
    Well, seeing as I have a book that's ranked at 500,000 and has no sales, while at the same time having positive editorial reviews from 4 best selling writers in the same (or similar) genres...it makes sense to advertise. And here I thought I'd become organically discovered and become the next Hugh Howey (minus the yacht...I want a penthouse in the city).

    Organically discovered used to work, and still does for some. On the other hand, a bit of low-cost advertising can give a book or a series a bit of a kick start. I like the fact there are so many options to promote our work now, because if one doesn't work or tails off, we can try another.
     

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    Offline Jena H

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #727 on: June 06, 2018, 06:50:07 pm »
    Products Display ads behave much differently than Sponsored Product ads.  They usually take at least 2 weeks to gain traction, if they ever do.  But once they gain traction, Impressions usually begin to quickly accelerate.  Also, their CTR's are usually much higher that SP ads.  I've run hundreds of PD-I (Product Display - Interest) ads, and they usually outperform  SP ads by a factor of at least 10:1.  The downside being that bids must be higher than those for SP ads.  Thus, it's easy to get badly burned if PD-I ads with high bids start producing tons of Clicks, which they usually do.  In other words, if you run PD ads with high bids, be sure to keep a close watch.  I advise starting with low bids, and working your way up.

    As I mentioned in my earlier post, with Product Display ads it's very disconcerting that you can't tell which "target" has brought your clicks or impressions.  Plus, ALL your target products fall under the same bid, unlike the other ads, in which you can set different bids for different keywords.  It just seems strange, after having run Sponsored Product ads for so long.
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    Offline CassieL

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #728 on: June 06, 2018, 07:34:17 pm »
    Edited to say: Sorry guys. Based on new ownership at this site and their response to legitimate author concerns I've chosen to withdraw from participation here.
    « Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:47:15 am by Cassie Leigh »

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    Offline weigle1234

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #729 on: June 07, 2018, 08:01:06 pm »
    As I mentioned in my earlier post, with Product Display ads it's very disconcerting that you can't tell which "target" has brought your clicks or impressions.  Plus, ALL your target products fall under the same bid, unlike the other ads, in which you can set different bids for different keywords.  It just seems strange, after having run Sponsored Product ads for so long.

    When I mentioned that my PD-I ads outperformed my typical SP ads by a factor of at least 10:1, I wasn't exaggerating.

    My typical SP ad averages 1,000 Impressions per day, producing 1 Click - for a CTR of .10%.

    Here's the actual numbers for my most extreme PD-I ad, when it accelerated into what I term a "Clicking Frenzy."

    6,653 daily Impressions, with a CTR of .55%.  Working the math:  6.653 x 5.5 = 36.5

    In other words, that single PD-I ad was equivalent to over 36 of my average SP ads!

    Normally that would appear to be great news.  Problem was, its Conversion Rate sucked big-time - the ad was basically breaking even.  So, I terminated it along with close to 40 other PD-I ads.  The risk was much too high to continue running marginal ads.  I not in the business of lining Amazon's coffers.

    My SP ads always had decent Conversion Rates, on the order of 15:1.  But, for whatever reason, my PD-I ad Conversion Rates were terrible.  I never attempted to closely analyze them since they were so totally "off the wall" that it would have been a waste of time.  I'm very conservative; I was bidding only 10-Cents on those 40+ ads.

    In short, beware of running PD-I ads with high bids - keep a close eye on them.  You can get taken to the cleaners in short order when they enter Clicking Frenzies - which they will do!
    « Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 06:37:39 pm by weigle1234 »

    Offline Rising Sun

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #730 on: June 08, 2018, 07:29:06 pm »
    I haven't taken the time to really delve into PD ads, but I think if I were trying to run them seriously that I would actually split up my products and run a zillion ads with just one or two products per ad since the PD ads don't seem to interfere with each other the way SP ads do. That would give you an equivalent to keyword level control on those ads.

    "...since the PD ads don't seem to interfere with each other the way SP ads do."

    I don't see SP ads competing within my own series of SP ads but I an sure it is possible to effectively cause an increase in the prices I pay. If i have 2 ads running with the same keyword at 2 different price levels, the higher price ad will normally win simply because it is beating someone elses ad bid...not my lower price ad bid.  If no one was bidding between the bid prices of my 2 ads then under Amazons ad rules the lower price bid would take it

    One strategy to run multiple SP ads is to use widely divergent keyword lists....using the idea of finding keywords that do not compete.  for instance you might use best-selling title or author lists from related sub-genres and genres...related authors and authors related to them...books of thpse authors...Looking at also-boughts you might also look at the also boughts related to the also bought books and authors. The advantage of multiple ads is that ad copy can be specialized for each.

    Unfortunately it is extra work to keep the ad bases completely free of duplicates. It is much easier to use similar pricing across all ads which also prevents inadvertant competition within and between keyword lists/ads.





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    Offline MichaelRyan

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #731 on: June 11, 2018, 10:39:20 am »
    I haven't taken the time to really delve into PD ads, but I think if I were trying to run them seriously that I would actually split up my products and run a zillion ads with just one or two products per ad since the PD ads don't seem to interfere with each other the way SP ads do. That would give you an equivalent to keyword level control on those ads.

    So, I finished reading Meek's book and it seems you and he have a mirrored philosophy (or strategy) on this because he swears by the PD ads. He put his numbers in the book, I forget exactly but it was like 85-90% PD ads to sponsored.

    So I wonder if it's merely finding the right strategy for each and running both OR finding the right strategy for your genre (if they are different...it would be hard to see why except for maybe the non-fiction vs. fiction distinction).

    I just watched Dave Chesson's video on AMS ads (which is free, a funnel for KDP Rocket) but seemingly straight forward and he does a good job of explaining the mechanics.

    I found his ideas of A/B testing ad copy using display ads intriguing (and probably a lot of work).

    Since a zillion ads seems a bit excessive....I wonder what the sweet spot for number of ads AND number of books targeted for each would be?

    Am I right in assuming that in sponsored ads, Zon gives you the impressions and clicks for each and every keyword, but in display ads they give you nothing specific?
    That's why you've got to made ten ads, for instance, if you wanted to see the numbers for say targeting Jaws as opposed to Cujo?


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    Offline CassieL

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #732 on: June 11, 2018, 10:57:30 am »
    Edited to say: Sorry guys. Based on new ownership at this site and their response to legitimate author concerns I've chosen to withdraw from participation here.
    « Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:47:29 am by Cassie Leigh »

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    Offline Steven Slavick

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #733 on: June 14, 2018, 10:42:11 pm »
    I've read through some of this thread, but not all of it because it's so darn long, but did someone state that when an author begins selling more copies, their placement in sponsored ads actually moves up on the hierarchy of any given keyword, despite keeping their bids at the same price?


    Offline Rising Sun

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #734 on: June 18, 2018, 12:24:47 pm »
    I've read through some of this thread, but not all of it because it's so darn long, but did someone state that when an author begins selling more copies, their placement in sponsored ads actually moves up on the hierarchy of any given keyword, despite keeping their bids at the same price?

    I am pretty sure most folks believe this. The statement would probably be best modified that overall rank is not the key (or we would only see the top 100 sellers in the ads) but that the ranking in related categories is probably more important. and that this is also modified by other characteristics....new books, new ads, etc. I also think cclick thru rate CTR is weighted more on the current individual keyword CTR and not the historical rate or ad rate.
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    Offline Rising Sun

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #735 on: June 18, 2018, 12:30:11 pm »
    I have been doing a daily ad analysis for a while made at the same time each day and have noticed in the last month swings of 30-50% in impressions, cost etc. on my KDP SP ads... Sometimes the swings are even much larger. Fridays seem to be the most likely to drop...even over 50%. The swings effect both printbook and Kindle sales.

    This is occuring over all my books. Most of my books are on political themes but I see it even in my poetry and TYA books.

    Anyone else seeing big swings?
    « Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 02:20:34 pm by Rising Sun »
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    Offline Rising Sun

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #736 on: June 18, 2018, 01:07:03 pm »
    What is the effect of advertising later books in series. I have assumed it should drive sales to the first book and the later in series book that is advertised....

    Is this the case? Do the advertisements for the later books have similar dynamics (impressions, costs etc) particularly when using same keysord SP ads??

    We just released a #2 of a trilogy, 5 years after the first book. ....I know that is wrong strategy... but I am thinking now that branding it as #2 might actually be hurting the sales of a good stand-alone novel. The readers I attract are virtually all non-fiction readers interested in the subject of my books....nonviolent civil resistance and are not used to series

    What bothers me most is that the impressions gained for first SP and PD ads for book #2 skyrocketed far more than I have seen on new books then fell worse than a rock....and it is tough to resuscitate them or create good performing new ads.
    « Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:51:10 pm by Rising Sun »
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    Offline BillyDeCarlo

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #737 on: June 19, 2018, 03:08:38 am »
    We just released a #2 of a trilogy, 5 years after the first book. ....I know that is wrong strategy... but I am thinking now that branding it as #2 might actually be hurting the sales of a good stand-alone novel. The readers I attract are virtually all non-fiction readers interested in the subject of my books....nonviolent civil resistance and are not used to series

    I think you should wait until you've completed book three in the trilogy. You've lost a lot of goodwill from your readers by taking five years to do book two, so they won't trust you to get three done. Ads for book two are unlikely to work unless you can specifically target those who read book one (and only a small number of them will likely buy since it's been five years).

    I'd get book three done, then advertise book one, after sales start tailing off then put together a boxed set and advertise that also.


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    Offline CassieL

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #738 on: June 19, 2018, 05:24:43 am »
    Edited to say: Sorry guys. Based on new ownership at this site and their response to legitimate author concerns I've chosen to withdraw from participation here.
    « Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:47:52 am by Cassie Leigh »

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    Offline Superchaise

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #739 on: June 19, 2018, 07:50:53 am »
    Has anyone noticed an improvement in the reporting speed since the maintenance a few weeks ago? It's pretty much the same on my end. Granted, Amazon never specified what the maintenance was about, so I may be looking for a change that wasn't even attempted on Amazon's end.

    Offline Simon Haynes

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #740 on: June 19, 2018, 09:02:59 am »
    No difference that I could see.

    Re advertising the second book in a series, I've run ads for a range of different titles. Best results have always been for the first book, not so much for later books.
     

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    Offline Dpock

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #741 on: June 19, 2018, 05:01:21 pm »
    Perhaps a dumb question... The AMS dashboard right column says "Copy". I know what the word means, obviously, but how does it apply? I don't want to copy an existing campaign, but it would be nice if I could grab its keywords--will it do that? Or does it just automatically fling a new campaign on your dash? I don't want to do that.


    Offline Superchaise

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #742 on: June 19, 2018, 05:19:16 pm »
    Perhaps a dumb question... The AMS dashboard right column says "Copy". I know what the word means, obviously, but how does it apply? I don't want to copy an existing campaign, but it would be nice if I could grab its keywords--will it do that? Or does it just automatically fling a new campaign on your dash? I don't want to do that.
    You're safe to press "copy" without anything popping up on your dashboard. There's a process before anything goes live that you can opt out of whenever you want. In my experience, yes, it does copy the keywords, but there is a screen where you can add/remove them as you'd like. Obviously, that can't be done once the campaign has started, so it's quite useful.

    The "draft" page you reach once you press "copy" on Campaign A looks like the draft page of Campaign A just before you pressed "submit".

    Offline CassieL

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #743 on: June 19, 2018, 05:47:40 pm »
    Edited to say: Sorry guys. Based on new ownership at this site and their response to legitimate author concerns I've chosen to withdraw from participation here.
    « Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:48:06 am by Cassie Leigh »

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    Offline MichaelRyan

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #744 on: June 21, 2018, 02:16:08 pm »
    A few question about this topic of running ads in a series.

    If you advertise the second (or higher) book in a series, isn't it likely that most readers would then click through to book #1 and screw up the relevancy of the advert?

    Or is a sale a sale and it doesn't matter?

    If it doesn't hurt, let's say I had a series of a dozen books.

    Could I run SP ads with identical keywords, but with different bids on each ad to see which price point is best?

    In other words, one ad at .15, one at .16, one at .17, etc, and thus find the sweet spot for bidding?

    Or would they just self-defeat each other?

    Would it be better to run 3 or 4 ads with a different set of keywords for book #1 at different price points to see if one price point works better and then migrate the keywords over to the best performing bid price?

    it seems that the smartest strategy seems to be sniping auctions as opposed to trying to ram your bid through, but I've heard different philosophies about what area to aim for (high bid strategy or low bid strategy).

    At the end of the say it seems like the official answer is:  "Throw a lot of mud at the wall and see what sticks."

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    Offline Simon Haynes

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #745 on: June 21, 2018, 11:49:21 pm »
    I got the idea that if someone clicks through to book one from an ad for book two, that sale is still attributed to the AMS ad figures.

    I guess that's why it takes several days (up to 2 weeks?) for the sales to appear on the AMS dashboard.
     

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    Offline MichaelRyan

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #746 on: June 25, 2018, 08:25:02 am »
    A few more questions after running my first campaigns for a week.

    I have two keyword ads with 500+ keywords.

    Ad #1 has 968 impressions, 11 clicks, 2 sales. The bid is set at .15
    Ad #2 has 1244 impressions, 1 click, 1 sale. This bid is also set at .15

    I realize that with such a low amount of statistical info, these numbers are not very significant. However, it at least seems promising and I'm wondering if I just let this sit (and for how long) or if I up the bids inside this ad, OR copy it with a higher bid and allow both to run?

    Let's say these numbers continue roughly the same, the percentages are great, but making a few extra sales a week is hardly worth the effort. It needs to be scaled up, and I'm wondering what the best practice would be here.

    My gut tells me I need more impressions and to up the bids, but I might just be being impatient.

    Another micro question.

    One keyword has 15 impressions with 2 clicks and 1 sale.  Again, this isn't statically significant because it's such a small sample size, but let's say the keyword continues to function well and I want to try to get more impressions, do I simply up this keyword bid inside the existing ad?

    Or is the common wisdom (which I've heard....I think....) to create an entirely new ad when you want to make changes like this?


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    Offline CassieL

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #747 on: June 25, 2018, 08:59:41 am »
    Edited to say: Sorry guys. Based on new ownership at this site and their response to legitimate author concerns I've chosen to withdraw from participation here.
    « Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:48:20 am by Cassie Leigh »

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    Offline CasperValentine

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #748 on: June 25, 2018, 09:23:28 am »
    I recently came across an interesting scenario that makes no sense to me. I created an AMS ad using a list of hundreds of keywords I'd been working on and kept the default .25 CPC bid across the board. I was getting impressions but no clicks. My first thought was that it was possibly my ad copy, my blub, or look inside but when I looked closer at my keywords I noticed the ones I thought would be the best weren't getting any impressions at all. Nearly all the impressions were coming from just a handful of keywords and they were vague. For the keywords, I really liked I upped the CPC bid from $.25 to $.50. Almost immediate I started getting impressions and clicks. The part that confuses me is that none of the clicks have cost me greater than $.24.  With all of the clicks being under my first bid price I don't see how upping my bid should have had anything to do with things. I don't see how this can be right.

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    Offline Jena H

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    Re: A New AMS Thread
    « Reply #749 on: June 25, 2018, 09:53:33 am »
    As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I paused a long-running ad, because it had somewhat stalled and started costing more than it earned.  As the Independence Day holiday approaches, I'm tweaking some keywords (and adding a few) and will unpause the ad later this week.  The book has relevance to the Revolutionary War, so that's why I'm focusing on the holiday.  (Plus, it's the middle of summer, and who doesn't like a good book to read while on vacation??  8))  As always with this ad, my main goal is to sell paperbacks.  And of course read-through to subsequent books in the series.
    Jena

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