Author Topic: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD  (Read 9515 times)  

Offline Arches

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Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2018, 05:22:28 pm »
that was exactly my point. No one would take $1.50 if they could make $5 direct. Ergo, it's worth the $1.50.

I'm happy to take $1.50 per book in KU because its a convenient, low-cost ecosystem I know how to work in. I just did my taxes, so I know my numbers for last year. I published six books, and I grossed $31K. Not a huge number by comparison to many on Kboards, but I'm happy with it, and I still work part time. I'll be thrilled if I earn that much this year in what is a hobby for me. I spent $3,400 on ads last year, mostly timed to promote new releases. That seemed moderate by comparison to what other people report, so I'm hopeful that this year is as good as last year.

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    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #76 on: March 18, 2018, 05:36:14 pm »
    I'm happy to take $1.50 per book in KU because its a convenient, low-cost ecosystem I know how to work in.

    If you're in KU you're also selling direct on amazon. You can't do one without the other.

    So it has nothing to do with convenience.

    And no one, unless they want to lose money, chooses $1.50 if they can make $5. The only reason to choose $1.50 is because you can't move volume direct (and amazon makes it cost prohibitive to sell direct below $2.99).

    Let's just call KU what it really is... it's the bargain bin. And if people want to say "I made damn good money in the bargain bin" then that is 100% logical. I can buy that and respect that (although still disagree with it).

    But this notion of "I don't want to at the front of the store in the display area selling for $14.99, I prefer to be in the 99c bin at the back of the store." is craziness. 


    Offline Rick Partlow

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #77 on: March 18, 2018, 05:49:00 pm »
    But this notion of "I don't want to at the front of the store in the display area selling for $14.99, I prefer to be in the 99c bin at the back of the store." is craziness.

    I don't want to be at the front of a store not very many people shop in selling for a price few people will pay.  I prefer to be wherever I can get in a store with more customers that makes me more money.  I don't attach my ego to the price.  My ego is satisfied by the fact people are reading my book, and after that, the only thing that matters to me is my bank account.

    Online Usedtoposthere

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #78 on: March 18, 2018, 05:56:59 pm »
    The length of your books is something to consider when making this decision. My latest book, out about 5 weeks now, earns me about $3.00 for a full read and $4.00 for a sale. I normally don't advertise on any kind of ongoing basis, so I keep all of that, and I sell (and get my books borrowed) quite well, so that works for me. I have a BookBub coming up in a couple weeks on a boxed set of the first 3 books in this 11-book series, and I'm expecting that to help. My next book comes out in June.

    For myself, I have found that KU (for my indie stuff--I'm still pretty diversified) keeps my indie income more steady than wide did, but I've heard many authors say the opposite, so it will depend for every author. I've also found, of course, that being in Select makes Amazon more likely to promote my stuff. This latest book didn't get anything but the standard new release announcement, but I got the invite for a future KMD/KDD on it. If it's a KDD, that could be really good. We'll see. If not, I'm OK.

    Oh, and speaking as a businessperson--the best price for your book is the one at which you take home the most money in the end. Period.

    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #79 on: March 18, 2018, 06:04:22 pm »
    I don't want to be at the front of a store not very many people shop in selling for a price few people will pay.  I prefer to be wherever I can get in a store with more customers that makes me more money.  I don't attach my ego to the price.  My ego is satisfied by the fact people are reading my book, and after that, the only thing that matters to me is my bank account.

    You're saying the overall direct book market is tiny and KU is huge?

    Or are you saying that when you try to sell direct very few people are interested, but when you are in KU you get a big crowd that's interested?

    Offline Rick Partlow

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #80 on: March 18, 2018, 06:18:12 pm »
    You're saying the overall direct book market is tiny and KU is huge?

    Or are you saying that when you try to sell direct very few people are interested, but when you are in KU you get a big crowd that's interested?

    I'm saying that the markets outside Amazon are much smaller and less lucrative, and would require different marketing, which would also probably cost more.

    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #81 on: March 18, 2018, 06:18:24 pm »
    ...unless your goal isn't revenue. Say your goal is brand awareness. Then the best price is going to be the one that sells the most books, or more specifically, gets the most press/eyeballs on it...which may or may not be free. Not to nitpick, but...  :)

    Or how is anyone supposed to know what their best price is? Maybe if you have 30 books and a couple years time you could get enough data to be able to delineate volume between different tiers of pricing, but otherwise it's all a big guess.

    I'd also say, for someone like me, I don't want to know what price I can move the most books at. I want to know IF I can sell at a reasonable price. If I can't sell my books for $5.99 (excluding an entry priced book), screw it, clearly I don't have enough value as a writer for readers to want to dish that out. For me, that means this isn't a feasible pursuit. Dropping down to $1.50 a book where people will buy it because it costs almost nothing, merely deludes me into thinking I have a market when in reality I don't.

    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #82 on: March 18, 2018, 06:23:48 pm »
    I'm saying that the markets outside Amazon are much smaller and less lucrative, and would require different marketing, which would also probably cost more.

    But you don't have to be in KU to sell through amazon. You can have access to the other markets AND amazon.

    So why take $1.50 and drive your readers into KU instead of selling direct on Amazon for $5? Even if you didn't sell on other platforms, isn't the direct Amazon market (ie. book buyers) still way larger than the indirect (ie. KU borrowers)?

    Offline AlecHutson

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #83 on: March 18, 2018, 06:34:04 pm »
    If you're in KU you're also selling direct on amazon. You can't do one without the other.

    So it has nothing to do with convenience.

    And no one, unless they want to lose money, chooses $1.50 if they can make $5. The only reason to choose $1.50 is because you can't move volume direct (and amazon makes it cost prohibitive to sell direct below $2.99).

    Let's just call KU what it really is... it's the bargain bin. And if people want to say "I made damn good money in the bargain bin" then that is 100% logical. I can buy that and respect that (although still disagree with it).

    But this notion of "I don't want to at the front of the store in the display area selling for $14.99, I prefer to be in the 99c bin at the back of the store." is craziness.

    I'm a bit confused. Where are you getting 1.50 and 5.00? Do you price your book on other platforms and Amazon at 7.99? That would be a bit of an indie ebook outlier. My novel in KU is 135k words and I price it at 4.99. I get about 3.00 per read through, and I make around 3.30 per sale. 1.50 through KU would be about a 70k word book, I believe. Doubtful you'd make much traction as an indie writer trying to earn a 5$ profit on a 70k word book. (yes, okay, I'm sure there are exceptions out there. But not common, certainly)

    I see KU as a largely self-contained pool of dedicated readers. And for sales, while I do my reading on an Ipad, I never shop Ibooks. The Kindle app makes it easy to read Amazon books on many e-readers. There's a reason why Amazon is 80% of the market.

    Last year my novel had 7,000,000 pages reads, and I sold 10,500 copies. I made slightly more through page reads overall, and I sincerely doubt that I would have made up those lost read-throughs if I had been wide, even if I'd been lucky enough to score a few bookbubs. And that's not even getting into the rank-boost KU gave me, which certainly contributed to some of those Amazon sales.

    I'm a huge KU fan. And as KU matures and more people try it out, it is becoming easier to find quality books. On several fantasy reading forums like reddit's r/fantasy readers regularly share the KU books that are good, and those authors have been welcomed into the communities and now get regularly recommended. KU is a great deal for those passionate readers who don't want to spend 50$ a month on books. I really don't see what the problem is here.     
    « Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 06:36:44 pm by AlecHutson »

    Alec Hutson

    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #84 on: March 18, 2018, 06:45:21 pm »
    I'm a bit confused. Where are you getting 1.50 and 5.00? Do you price your book on other platforms and Amazon at 7.99? That would be a bit of an indie ebook outlier. My novel in KU is 135k words and I price it at 4.99. I get about 3.00 per read through, and I make around 3.30 per sale. 1.50 through KU would be about a 70k word book, I believe. Doubtful you'd make much traction as an indie writer trying to earn a 5$ profit on a 70k word book. (yes, okay, I'm sure there are exceptions out there. But not common, certainly)

    your book is 423 pages x .0046 = $1.94
    direct $4.99 x .70 = $3.50

    am I missing something?

    Offline PhoenixS

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #85 on: March 18, 2018, 06:49:55 pm »
    This is all-time Amazon earnings for our 6+-figure anchor author. Her books were mostly all wide for nearly a year, from the latter half of 2014 through July 2015. Despite nearly monthly BookBub features while wide and store-specific promos, revenue was steadily tanking. BN was actually our second-best venue at the time, and although off-Amazon revenue was 30-40% of the total, we still weren't keeping up with what we'd been making for her in Select. We went back all-in with Select in July 2015 when KU2 arrived, and haven't looked back. 30-40% of declining revenue at the wide venues just wasn't enough to match the revenue of Select.

    Genre undoubtedly plays a role. This is mainly backlist, old-school historical and contemporary romance, with a couple of new contemporary series released in 2013 and early 2016. For our needs and for how I market, even though revenue has been depressed with Amazon's calculated slashes to page reads, an aging catalog and all the scamming -- and despite BB generously giving us about 10 features for our author per year -- Select continues to be the better business option for short-term gain.

    Even without any new backlist re-releases for over a year and no brand-new content for more than two years now -- only the occasional reshuffled box set of backlist titles -- we've managed to hold her income fairly steady, and even gaining a bit without additional marketing other than what we've been doing all along. Even in spite of Amazon's KNPC 2.0 and 3.0, which saw our revenue plunge each time.

    Still, when we look at where we were while wide and where we are today, it's clear off-Amazon revenues would need to make up 60-70% of our income to keep sales consistent with where they are currently -- and that's assuming on-Amazon sales doubled when the borrows were gone. With backlist only now, and no new content, that's just not a plausible outcome.

    I go where our data leads. Plus, we're short timers now. ;)


     

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    Offline AlecHutson

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #86 on: March 18, 2018, 06:55:31 pm »
    your book is 423 pages x .0046 = $1.94
    direct $4.99 x .70 = $3.50

    am I missing something?

    You are indeed. Have you ever been in KU? They don't use your book's listed page reads to calculate the payout. They use KENPC pages to calculate page reads. My book is listed as 423 pages for my print version, but for the purposes of KU I have 668 pages. So assuming the current KU rate I make 2.94 per full read through. Also, because of the delivery fee Amazon charges I don't get 3.50 per sale. I think I worked it out to be like 3.30 (I also factor in the few days a year I run countdown sales, which slightly depresses the average price I earn per unit)

    Did you not know that the KU payout is not calculated from your print book length? No offense, but I'm not sure you should be trashing the program when it doesn't seem you understand how it works.
    « Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 07:03:36 pm by AlecHutson »

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    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #87 on: March 18, 2018, 07:01:16 pm »
    I go where our data leads. Plus, we're short timers now. ;)



    So basically what you're saying is tht the ebook market has already commodified and if you aren't moving huge volume there ain't a living to be had? (Unless you can live off low volume at $1.50-2.00 per full read; which obviously no one can)

    Offline Rick Partlow

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #88 on: March 18, 2018, 07:15:44 pm »
    But you don't have to be in KU to sell through amazon. You can have access to the other markets AND amazon.

    So why take $1.50 and drive your readers into KU instead of selling direct on Amazon for $5? Even if you didn't sell on other platforms, isn't the direct Amazon market (ie. book buyers) still way larger than the indirect (ie. KU borrowers)?

    Not for me.  Can't answer for anyone else.

    Offline Seneca42

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #89 on: March 18, 2018, 07:29:51 pm »
    You are indeed. Have you ever been in KU? They don't use your book's listed page reads to calculate the payout. They use KENPC pages to calculate page reads. My book is listed as 423 pages for my print version, but for the purposes of KU I have 668 pages. So assuming the current KU rate I make 2.94 per full read through. Also, because of the delivery fee Amazon charges I don't get 3.50 per sale. I think I worked it out to be like 3.30 (I also factor in the few days a year I run countdown sales, which slightly depresses the average price I earn per unit)

    Did you not know that the KU payout is not calculated from your print book length? No offense, but I'm not sure you should be trashing the program when it doesn't seem you understand how it works.

    Generally the print count is HIGHER thn the KU count. But for some authors it's the opposite. I assume because you format your print book in smaller font or something.

    But while we're on this topic, how ridiculous that they can't even tell you what your page count in KU even is. You have to figure it out yourself.

    And you meant to be offensive, but that's okay  :P  I'm pretty much impossible to offend so don't worry about it.

    Offline GeneDoucette

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #90 on: March 18, 2018, 07:38:55 pm »
    Generally the print count is HIGHER thn the KU count.

    I don't believe this is at all true.

    Offline AlecHutson

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #91 on: March 18, 2018, 07:41:40 pm »
    Generally the print count is HIGHER thn the KU count. But for some authors it's the opposite. I assume because you format your print book in smaller font or something.

    But while we're on this topic, how ridiculous that they can't even tell you what your page count in KU even is. You have to figure it out yourself.

    And you meant to be offensive, but that's okay  :P  I'm pretty much impossible to offend so don't worry about it.

    I've never heard of the print length being longer than the KU length. I would imagine there would be some seriously strange shenanigans going on with the print formatting - KENPC is I believe standardized; they have their own formula which takes into account all characters, so writers who use a lot of dialogue and little description (which would inflate print page length) would certainly have a lower KENPC than a writer that uses a lot of dense descriptive paragraphs.

    And you can easily find out the KENPC length of your books. Go to the Kindle dashboard, click on the three small dots next to your book, and click on KDP select info. Your KENPC page count is right there.

    I also didn't mean to be offensive, honestly. It just seems odd that you're so negative about the KU program but it doesn't seem like you know some of the basic facts that anyone who has used the program should be familiar with. Again, I don't mean that to be hurtful. It's just a statement. I've enjoyed a lot of your posts on other topics and think you have some good insight. Just not when it comes to KU.   

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    Offline Anarchist

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #92 on: March 18, 2018, 07:41:58 pm »
    These threads always make me feel like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men...

    Warning: not safe for work.


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    Offline PhoenixS

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #93 on: March 18, 2018, 07:54:35 pm »
    So basically what you're saying is tht the ebook market has already commodified and if you aren't moving huge volume there ain't a living to be had? (Unless you can live off low volume at $1.50-2.00 per full read; which obviously no one can)

    This one lists right now for $8.99 (it was free for 5 days at the end of February, so this is revenue for the last 3 weeks). It has 2183 KNPC pages, so makes a bit over $9 per full read. Yep, it's a box, but 2/3 of the books in it were trad-pubbed and made good money in paper. I said this is what works for this author's situation. Again, she's 2 years out from any brand-new release, and isn't currently writing. So we're coasting on backlist.



    If I can make more selling volume from the bargain bin than selling fewer from the end cap, that works for me. The money spends the same. And our readers can read more of her catalog without breaking the bank. Which makes them happy. Volume means we satisfy the desire to be read as well. Which makes us happy. So much so, that we've also given away over 2 million copies of this author's works.

    But there's room for authors/publishers who sell at mid-range and ritzy prices too. Maybe I could make a living selling higher-priced wide books, but we've exceeded our original goals by multiple factors, so why try to pivot now?
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    Online Usedtoposthere

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #94 on: March 18, 2018, 08:14:50 pm »
    For those who don't know, the KENPC, which is used to pay "per page read" in KU, is about 100 pages per 20K. So a 120K book that would be around 400 print pages for me (my paperbacks are trade sized, 5.5 x 8.5), will be around 600 KENPC. I certainly have never heard anybody talk about their KENPC being LOWER than their print pages--unless they had a tiny paperback or a large font or something, I guess.

    I have not seen much change at all in my KENPC since KU2 began. I never optimized when that was "the thing," and my pages didn't shift that much, either. So I guess I missed out a lot at the beginning, but I've made comparatively more once they made their adjustments.

    I'm really not one bit sure where this $1.50 for a novel in KU comes from, except that that would be about a 60K book. If you write 60K books, KU can still be very profitable, but only if you're moving large volume. I write 100-150K books that sell for $4.99-5.99, so my situation is pretty different, but different people make the various paths work in their own way, including advertising or not, writing to trends or not, and on and on and on ...

    I don't get why it's a fight, honestly. Do what works for you. (You find out what that is by trying stuff, in my publishing and life experience.)

    Offline Ryan W. Mueller

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #95 on: March 18, 2018, 08:55:25 pm »
    All to say I have no idea how you assessed wide versus KU and accurately determined that your genre does better in KU than wide.

    Obviously, it's not a scientific study by any means. It's just my impression of things.

    You're right that some of these books could be getting more visibility because of borrows. That's difficult to quantify, though, so I mostly pay attention to books that I've seen recommended by people I trust or books that have a lot of good reviews that don't appear to be fake.

    I could be wrong in my impressions, but I still think KU is best for me at this point. That could change in the future.

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    Offline Ryan W. Mueller

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #96 on: March 18, 2018, 09:05:16 pm »
    Otherwise, giving up 70% royalties on regularly priced book in favor of .0046 KENP makes no sense at all.

    Huh? Putting your book in KU doesn't keep you from getting 70% royalties on a regularly priced book. KU readers will read your book through KU. Everyone else will buy it like they would anyways.

    It's difficult to make any definitive argument that you'd make more going wide. Some authors sell like crazy at the other outlets. Others make almost nothing outside of Amazon. If you're making almost all your sales at Amazon, why not enroll your book in KU and see if you can gain those readers as well?

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    Offline dgcasey

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #97 on: March 18, 2018, 10:30:20 pm »
    I don't believe this is at all true.

    It's not true. Most will find that their KENP numbers will work out to somewhere between 205 and 210 words per page. My numbers on my seven titles range from 197 to 215 words per KENP with my average being just at 208 words. So the other poster that wrote a 135K book would have a KENP of around 649 pages with earnings of $2.98 per full read at 0.0046 cents per page. Now, that's based on my average and his could be different, but it won't be so wildly different that he would only be getting paid $1.95 for a full read.

    I think Seneca needs to go back and check her numbers because they seem to be way off.

    Offline dgcasey

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #98 on: March 18, 2018, 10:32:20 pm »
    But while we're on this topic, how ridiculous that they can't even tell you what your page count in KU even is. You have to figure it out yourself.

    Actually, they do tell you exactly how many pages your KENP is. All you need to do is look at the Kindle Select page for each book you have published in KS and look to the bottom of the page. It's right there in black and white.

    Offline cameronwaynesmith

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    Re: February 2018 - Headline KENPC Rate 0.0046601USD
    « Reply #99 on: March 18, 2018, 11:50:38 pm »
    Cool to know. I put a couple of books in KU and thought I was having minor success. If it remains at this rate, it should hook me up with a couple of coffees each month!

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