Author Topic: mandatory opt-ins are out  (Read 4095 times)  

Offline mike h

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
    • Herman_Santangelo
Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2018, 12:24:11 am »
Am wondering if Bookbub's refusal to allow advertising that has email exchange for free books is influencing Instafreebie's actions. Also am wondering if this will affect Bookbub's policy against advertising Instafreebies giveaways.

KBoards.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Offline 97251

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 318
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #26 on: April 06, 2018, 04:13:44 am »
    Am wondering if Bookbub's refusal to allow advertising that has email exchange for free books is influencing Instafreebie's actions. Also am wondering if this will affect Bookbub's policy against advertising Instafreebies giveaways.

    It's going to continue the same, since I doubt they'll cancel the mandatory sign in for the Instafreebie list.




    bardsandsages

    • Guest
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #27 on: April 06, 2018, 05:35:43 am »
    Still a little unclear on how American publishers and authors are subject to the laws of the European Union.  I understand if you're running a company with offices there, but if you're writing books in Idaho, I don't understand how what you do to sell your books has anything to do with the EU.  Perhaps someone can elaborate. 

    It isn't merely about where YOU reside. It is also about where you are doing business. If you are marketing to EU citizens, you are subject to EU laws. Just like a company in Japan marketing in the U.S. is subject to U.S. laws.

    Let me give you a real world example. I work in *************. In the U.S., I can ship certain hazardous chemicals (hairspray, nailpolish, etc) under a general Consumer Commodities category which requires fewer label and reporting requirements. The SECOND I ship that same chemical into Canada, my shipment becomes subject to Canadian laws because even though I AM IN NJ, my product is going into Canada. So now that shipment has to conform to Canadian regulations. If I ship that same package to Germany, now it has to conform to not only German requirements, but the requirements of every nation that the shipment passes through! So if the FedEx plan stops in Paris for some reason, that shipment needs to confirm to French shipping law.

    Which is why most international businesses write their regulations based on the most strict laws and apply them across the board, because in the end it is cheaper and easier to do everything uniform than to try to manage the separate laws of fifty different countries.

    Offline Prolific Works Staff

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 35
    • United States
      • View Profile
      • Prolific Works
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #28 on: April 06, 2018, 07:18:46 am »
    Hi all, we encourage everyone to read the announcement in full! You can do so here: http://preview.mailerlite.com/k2r0m3

    If you have any questions or concerns regarding the changes, feel free to reach out to use at [email protected] We'd love to hear from you.

    We also wanted to clarify that Instafreebie has had optional opt-in on our own newsletter since August 2017. We will be reverifying readers who were opted in before that date, so thanks to everyone who brought it up for the reminder that everyone should manage their lists with integrity!

    Offline crow.bar.beer

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 756
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #29 on: April 06, 2018, 07:47:21 am »
    Quote
    As a result of this expanded definition, beginning May 25th, we will no longer feature mandatory opt-in giveaways on our social media, blog, newsletter, or promote them through our recommendation engine.

    Many posters in this thread have questioned how this move could be the result of the expanded definition. Could you address that?

    Offline Prolific Works Staff

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 35
    • United States
      • View Profile
      • Prolific Works
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #30 on: April 06, 2018, 08:11:32 am »
    Many posters in this thread have questioned how this move could be the result of the expanded definition. Could you address that?

    Based on our interpretation of the GDPR legislation, we strongly recommend that authors use optional opt-in. GDPR's expanded definition of consent states that consent must be "freely given, specific, informed, and unambiguous." While we believe that using mandatory opt-in on an Instafreebie giveaway meets the requirements of "specific, informed, and unambiguous," our interpretation of the legislation is that requiring a reader to give personal information in exchange for goods or services (i.e., your ebooks) would be in violation of the fourth requirement ("freely given"). For this reason, we are encouraging authors to use optional opt-in as a way to more closely comply to GDPR. Hope that clarifies things!

    Offline mike h

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 360
      • View Profile
      • Herman_Santangelo
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #31 on: April 06, 2018, 08:50:08 am »
    I agree with the truth in advertising. The most explicit sign-up graphic would state, "Please sign up for author's newsletter to receive free book." No trickery, no forcing someone to give up personal data under ambiguous circumstances, no conflict with the European law. In fact, it would seem that this would be Instafreebie's adjustment to the new law rather than no longer providing promotion to the mandatory opt-in. Just a thought.

    Offline crow.bar.beer

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 756
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #32 on: April 06, 2018, 08:51:43 am »
    Based on our interpretation of the GDPR legislation, we strongly recommend that authors use optional opt-in. GDPR's expanded definition of consent states that consent must be "freely given, specific, informed, and unambiguous." While we believe that using mandatory opt-in on an Instafreebie giveaway meets the requirements of "specific, informed, and unambiguous," our interpretation of the legislation is that requiring a reader to give personal information in exchange for goods or services (i.e., your ebooks) would be in violation of the fourth requirement ("freely given"). For this reason, we are encouraging authors to use optional opt-in as a way to more closely comply to GDPR. Hope that clarifies things!

    Thanks, it definitely does. :)

    Offline Aaronhodges

    • Status: Lewis Carroll
    • **
    • Posts: 171
    • Gender: Male
    • New Zealand
      • View Profile
      • Aaron Hodges
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #33 on: April 06, 2018, 08:57:50 am »
    Based on our interpretation of the GDPR legislation, we strongly recommend that authors use optional opt-in. GDPR's expanded definition of consent states that consent must be "freely given, specific, informed, and unambiguous." While we believe that using mandatory opt-in on an Instafreebie giveaway meets the requirements of "specific, informed, and unambiguous," our interpretation of the legislation is that requiring a reader to give personal information in exchange for goods or services (i.e., your ebooks) would be in violation of the fourth requirement ("freely given"). For this reason, we are encouraging authors to use optional opt-in as a way to more closely comply to GDPR. Hope that clarifies things!
    In other words, you cannot freely give your consent if you receive anything in return for giving your consent.

    Offline Prolific Works Staff

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 35
    • United States
      • View Profile
      • Prolific Works
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #34 on: April 06, 2018, 09:14:46 am »
    Although I just went to the Instafreebie website and looked at some books. All I saw was a place to enter name and email address, and it said that would be used to email me the book. No mention at all of agreeing to sign up for an author newsletter (or more?). There's a link to "terms and conditions" but even if the "you're signing up for a newsletter" info is in there, that's hardly a clear and open communication of that fact, is it? One of the books I looked at had a check box next to "this author can email me" which I assume to be a newsletter opt-in. So that's good, but am I to assume that if it's not there on the other books, I'd be getting signed up for a newsletter automatically, without any awareness of it? I hope once this change is in place, that check box being there for all books will clear up this confusion. Until then, I'll not risk entering my email on those books that don't offer the option, since it sounds like if it's not an option, it's an unspoken requirement, and I'm not cool with that.

    Thanks for this comment! We wanted to clarify that (although we're not sure which giveaway you were looking at) not all of our giveaways allow a reader to opt-in to an author newsletter, so we assume that since you saw no language around a newsletter that you were looking at one of those. Optional opt-in giveaways have the checkbox you saw, and mandatory opt-in giveaways have the language "sign up for [author]'s newsletter and get a free copy of [book title]" so that readers are aware that they are signing up. We would never allow an author to sign a reader up for a newsletter without the reader being aware of it!

    Offline 97251

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 318
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #35 on: April 06, 2018, 09:27:29 am »

    Although I just went to the Instafreebie website and looked at some books. All I saw was a place to enter name and email address, and it said that would be used to email me the book. No mention at all of agreeing to sign up for an author newsletter (or more?).

    When you sign up for a newsletter on Instafreebie, the text on top says: Sign up for ...'s mailing list
    and get a free copy of ...


    I find it clear.

    If you saw no such text, it's probably a book from a free account that doesn't collect emails.

    And thanks for the Instafreebie Staff for clarifying that signing up for the IF mailing list is not mandatory. That makes a lot more sense, and it's fair for authors and readers.

    Offline TromboneAl

    • Status: Dostoevsky
    • ******
    • Posts: 3942
    • Name IRL: Al Macy
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #36 on: April 06, 2018, 02:25:16 pm »
    ... downgrade to the free account level and then remove your books.

    My plan is to downgrade to free but not remove any books.

    Free Forever

    Unlimited giveaways and distribution at no additional cost
    Instafreebie acceleration to the right readers
    Customer support for readers
    1 pen name and author page
     
    Al Macy | Web Site

    Offline It's A Mystery

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 357
    • Oxford
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #37 on: April 06, 2018, 02:46:47 pm »
    There was a gdpr thread on here recently where I mentioned this was coming. You can't give someone something in exchange for personal data.

    The example I used was making someone give you their details to use your WiFi

    Offline Allyson J.

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 809
    • Gender: Female
    • South Carolina, USA
    • Writer. Traveler. Adventurer
      • View Profile
      • AllysonJeleyne.com
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #38 on: April 06, 2018, 02:48:20 pm »
    My plan is to downgrade to free but not remove any books.

    Free Forever

    Unlimited giveaways and distribution at no additional cost
    Instafreebie acceleration to the right readers
    Customer support for readers
    1 pen name and author page

    I'm a big fan of Instafreebie, but I'm no longer seeing the benefit of paying $20. The only difference between the free "basic" plan and the new "plus" plan is the ability to collect subscribers' email and integrate w/ mailerlite or mailchimp.

    If mandatory opt ins are no longer encouraged, couldn't we just rely on our own newsletter CTAs in the front / back of our books to collect the subscribers that want to sign up (like the old days)? Where is the value of the $20? I'm asking seriously.

    Victorian, Edwardian, and Jazz Age romance

    Offline Patty Jansen

    • Status: Harvey Chute
    • *********
    • Posts: 13188
    • Gender: Female
    • Sydney, Australia
    • Destroyer of Science Fiction
      • View Profile
      • Patty Jansen Author of SF and fantasy
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #39 on: April 06, 2018, 03:19:31 pm »
    I'm a big fan of Instafreebie, but I'm no longer seeing the benefit of paying $20. The only difference between the free "basic" plan and the new "plus" plan is the ability to collect subscribers' email and integrate w/ mailerlite or mailchimp.

    If mandatory opt ins are no longer encouraged, couldn't we just rely on our own newsletter CTAs in the front / back of our books to collect the subscribers that want to sign up (like the old days)? Where is the value of the $20? I'm asking seriously.

    The way I look at it is this:

    I don't advertise on any of the small lists. I only pay for ads when I can get a Bookbub featured deal.

    My MO is to funnel everything through my mailing list, because I can filter out my readers, advertise to them directly when I have a deal or new book and it's all free.

    I advertise on Facebook for signups, but at best, a subscriber there costs me 30c. Usually the cost is higher. Instafreebie is 66c a day, so as long as it delivers me 2-3 subscribers a day, I'm good.

    Offline 97251

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 318
      • View Profile
    I don't accept the new Forum TOS and refuse to support offensive ads
    « Reply #40 on: April 06, 2018, 04:22:50 pm »
    I don't accept the new Forum TOS and refuse to support offensive ads
    « Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 03:35:00 pm by Yay! »

    Offline TromboneAl

    • Status: Dostoevsky
    • ******
    • Posts: 3942
    • Name IRL: Al Macy
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #41 on: April 06, 2018, 06:24:32 pm »
    I'm a big fan of Instafreebie, but I'm no longer seeing the benefit of paying $20. The only difference between the free "basic" plan and the new "plus" plan is the ability to collect subscribers' email and integrate w/ mailerlite or mailchimp.

    If mandatory opt ins are no longer encouraged, couldn't we just rely on our own newsletter CTAs in the front / back of our books to collect the subscribers that want to sign up (like the old days)? Where is the value of the $20? I'm asking seriously.
    Exactly. You can still introduce new readers to your writing, and if they like it they will sign up through the links in your books.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

     
    Al Macy | Web Site

    Offline It's A Mystery

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 357
    • Oxford
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #42 on: April 06, 2018, 08:33:50 pm »
    Ok, but that's tricky, because technically, authors are not requiring personal data to deliver the books. You could give [email protected] and be fine with it.

    According to the link below, this type of email is not considered personal data, and nobody is forcing anyone to give [email protected]

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

    So collecting emails only is not personal data according to their info, but maybe somebody with more knowledge can clarify.

    Also, technically, the reader is signing up for a mailing list that gives them access to exclusive content, freebies, promos, etc. The free ebook is part of the content in this mailing list. From this perspective, the email is necessary.

    Also, from https://www.eugdpr.org/gdpr-faqs.html :

    Do data processors need 'explicit' or 'unambiguous' data subject consent - and what is the difference?
    The conditions for consent have been strengthened ... However, for non-sensitive data, unambiguous consent will suffice.

    Again, we're talking about non-sensitive data when talking about emails.


    And one more source about consent:

    https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/

    I guess this is the tricky one: When assessing whether consent is freely given, utmost account shall be taken of whether, inter alia, the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is conditional on consent to the processing of personal data that is not necessary for the performance of that contract.

    But again, this is about data that is not necessary, and this is also about personal data. [email protected] is not personal data, and if you provide content to newsletter subscribers, having the email is necessary for such services.

    So ok, Instafreebie means well and as a big company, wants to cover their bottom, which is fair enough, but I still don't see this legislation forbidding giving books to mailing list subscribers, or enticing people to sign up for your list by offering them freebies. It's not what's written in the legislation. In fact, the legislation is not even aimed at mailing lists, unless the mailing list is collecting more personal information than what subscribers realize.

    I'd be much more worried if I had Facebook pixel or Google analytics on my website. I might remove Google analytics from my sites, because in this case, pretty sure yeah, I'm getting personal information without people's consent. This legislation was obviously done as a response to Facebook. Not only they collect people's information without their consent, they sell it. Google does that as well. In fact, the whole targeting works based on information collected from people who don't consent.

    I doubt this legislation is going to affect people who provide perks for their mailing list subscribers or sites that support such practice, as long as customers are informed that they are signing up for something.

    Of course, maybe someone with more legal knowledge can chime in.

    Great point, it probably comes down to wording.

    Does it say 'add your email address' or 'go and get a throwaway email to add here'  :D

    Offline josielitton

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 394
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #43 on: April 07, 2018, 02:56:22 am »
    Instafreebie appears to be having some problems this morning. All the links in my "Friday Email from Instafreebie" go to an error page. I checked and links in old emails still work so that's new. Plus my inbox is flooded with dozens of copies of the same emails regarding Instafreebie promotions that are currently open. I'm posting this here in the hope that the IF rep who's been participating will see this and pass it along. Needs to be fixed pronto!

    Offline 97251

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 318
      • View Profile
    I don't accept the new Forum TOS and refuse to support offensive ads
    « Reply #44 on: April 07, 2018, 04:47:04 am »
    I don't accept the new Forum TOS and refuse to support offensive ads
    « Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 03:34:42 pm by Yay! »

    Offline H.C.

    • Status: Scheherazade
    • *****
    • Posts: 1819
    • Gender: Male
    • Chengdu
    • Loving every minute
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #45 on: April 07, 2018, 08:17:37 am »
    What a pity.

    I've had good success growing my list with the mandatory opt-in but I'm not going to test if optional gets me any results for $20. If others find the results good perhaps I'll return but from my POV instafreebie made a big mistake misinterpreting this whole thing.

    Offline Philip Gibson

    • Status: Arthur C Clarke
    • *****
    • Posts: 2542
    • Gender: Male
    • Laos (Moved from Yorkshire)
    • Philip and Cookie the Dog
      • View Profile
      • Hashtag Histories
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #46 on: April 08, 2018, 05:30:15 am »
    My plan is to downgrade to free but not remove any books.

    Free Forever

    Unlimited giveaways and distribution at no additional cost
    Instafreebie acceleration to the right readers
    Customer support for readers
    1 pen name and author page

    I planned to do that too, but paused when I saw that downgrading to FREE removes the discount we get from Mailerlite.

    I'll probably still do it. 

    Philip

    What if there had been social media during important historical events?
    Philip Gibson | Hashtag Histories | Word By Word Graded Readers for Children

    Offline Karma Calls

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 1
      • View Profile
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #47 on: April 09, 2018, 02:53:18 pm »
    Great point, it probably comes down to wording.

    Does it say 'add your email address' or 'go and get a throwaway email to add here'  :D

    I think it's great that Instafreebie has caught up. Honestly, three months ago, they didn't even know was GDPR was :( MailChimp and Bookfunnel has been on it pretty good with documentation, functionality to make it easy to be compliant.  Because if you're using their services, if they aren't compliant, YOU aren't compliant.  I never liked IF mandatory opt-in set up.  The layout of the page had the clause that mattered (the one that specified they were agreeing to receive communication from you) was further down, where IF's opt-in verbiage was right by the input fields for name and email.  It always looked shady a bit shady IMO. I feel with many vendors, to keep from being caught with their pants down, they will try to remove themselves from liability. Meaning, it's on you when you set up mandatory opt-in and an EU user claims they didn't explicitly agree to it.  Just like your mailing list--though MailerLite and MailChimp are doing their part, in the end, it's YOUR list, so you are ultimately responsible. If an EU subscriber asks for the how and when they gave consent to using their personal data, if you can't produce that, that could be tough on you.

    I know a lot of folks have been saying, "They have better things to do than worry about me." As my Compliance Deputy often says, "Everyone thinks it can't happen to them. Until it does." :o

    For personal data, the terms are pretty broad, but the GDPR site's definition is pretty standard for Personally Identifiable Information (PII):
    "What constitutes personal data?
    Any information related to a natural person or Data Subject, that can be used to directly or indirectly identify the person. It can be anything from a name, a photo, an email address, bank details, posts on social networking websites, medical information, or a computer IP address."

    I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but if you collect email addresses, first and last names, birthdays and IP addresses from your subscriber sign in, you just collected a nice bit of PII. So you are likely liable for the management of it.

    Offline Jonathan C. Gillespie

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 995
    • Gender: Male
    • Atlanta, GA
    • Relentlessly Patient
      • View Profile
      • Fiction For Every Reader
    Re: mandatory opt-ins are out
    « Reply #48 on: April 10, 2018, 07:07:45 pm »
    So what about the double opt-in requirement? I use Instafreebie with Mailerlite integration, and all I've ever done is optional opt-in giveaways. Am I meeting double opt in requirement already?


    I write worlds on paper, then destroy them.
    Jonathan C. Gillespie | Official Site | Twitter | facebook | Newsletter

    KBoards.com

    • Advertisement
    • ***