Author Topic: Author Support Network  (Read 1914 times)  

Offline Reformed Pantser

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2018, 05:37:59 AM »
And so it begins... 1000 reasons why any initiative is a doomed initiative. :-) IMO, the real reason the hive mind here almost always comes to that conclusion is that kboards is a great place for DISCUSSING - after all, it's a discussion forum - but not for DOING or for heralding CHANGE.  I love kboards, I do, but I'm delighted Marie Force didn't come here first to test the waters. And now she has nearly 1K authors (including me!) who believe her initiative has a solid chance, who trust her to do it right, and who are happy to contribute $20 to make it happen.

Offline dgaughran

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2018, 05:51:31 AM »
Hey, questions are good. I'd be asking them myself if I hadn't already decided to jump in.
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Offline Patty Jansen

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2018, 05:58:59 AM »
I'm in.

Questions are great.

KB is not a place to obtain universal approval because you will never get it. It is, however, a great place to say: hey, I'm gonna do this and this, anything else I need to consider?

Anyway, I'm happy to pay a small amount for the benefit of independent authors in general, and it doesn't have to benefit me personally.

Offline Anarchist

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2018, 06:14:51 AM »
I am hesitant about something like this. Too many of us have very different needs, goals, and philosophies on publishing that it makes me nervous we are now going to lobby for what's for the common good? In my opinion, Amazon is operating for their bottom line, as we all should, if we are to remain in business. The assumption that if we en masse tell Amazon we want such and such changed that it will be changed, that it won't then adversly affect our fellow author, and that some really bad consequence won't follow is very dangerous to me.

I agree.

Unintended consequences are a given. I suspect a lot of change advocates will be negatively impacted, even if they're unable to identify causality.

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Offline dgaughran

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2018, 06:23:23 AM »
You could argue that inaction is more harmful, that the status quo is damaging, that things are trending towards a broken mess of a Kindle Store. If you look at the arc over the last few years, that seems to describe things pretty accurately to me.

Also, part of the goal here (I hope) would be to address Amazon's tendency to nuke from orbit, and to institute due process for *everyone* even those accused of being the scammiest scammer. Everyone is entitled to it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:33:04 AM by dgaughran »
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Offline MelanieCellier

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2018, 06:52:34 AM »
Is the scope here only kdp? Because I hope there wouldnt be any disagreement to the point that AMS needs better reporting! Id love to see that advocated for.

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Offline dgaughran

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2018, 07:14:52 AM »
Me too.

When I previously interfaced with KDP and presented them with some crowdsourced ideas, I was also able to raise issues/suggestions regarding other Amazon departments, and they were happy to forward them on with the relevant team. So even if the point of contact was going to be KDP, I would think that is still possible.

And it's not just Amazon, but all retailers, from what I've read.
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Online Martitalbott

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2018, 07:27:20 AM »
I'm looking at this more along the lines of having direct contact between us and a special Amazon rep. As it is, there are thousands of us complaining/asking about this and that, where as Amazon might find it beneficial to explain a specific issue to our contact, who can then spread the word to the rest of us. Will be interesting to see what happens.
       
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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2018, 09:21:13 AM »
I think it should advocate for more transparency from Amazon. We would like to know the page rate pay out in advance instead of winging it blind. We would like to know how many people borrow our book. Simple things like that seem like a good focus instead of starting off by turning on fellow authors by declaring them stuffers or scammers etc. It seems that's the part that is turning people off & causing reluctance to join a group that could turn into a witch hunt. Just my thoughts. I do hope the group can effectively work for change at Amazon.

Offline JRTomlin

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2018, 10:49:16 AM »
Facebook is merely the home of the FB group this idea sprung from. The actual home (not much to see yet) is on a site here: http://indieauthorsupportnetwork.com/ and you can email/sign up/express interest via there.
Thanks. For reasons one is not allowed to discuss here, I am no longer on Facebook.

$20 isn't much and I probably will for it. But after long experience, I like to look closely at any organisation I'm joining, even one recommended by people I trust, which I know David can understand.

ETA: I went there and clicked on the join button. I was sent to create a FACEBOOK acct in order to do so. That is a deal breaker for me. Sorry.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:51:40 AM by JRTomlin »

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2018, 10:55:42 AM »
This is going around in a lot of private places too and I will say the same thing I am saying there:

I am hesitant about something like this. Too many of us have very different needs, goals, and philosophies on publishing that it makes me nervous we are now going to lobby for what's for the common good? In my opinion, Amazon is operating for their bottom line, as we all should, if we are to remain in business. The assumption that if we en masse tell Amazon we want such and such changed that it will be changed, that it won't then adversly affect our fellow author, and that some really bad consequence won't follow is very dangerous to me.

Remember, we went from 10% read = a payout to this non-auditable, virtual currency of a page read that Amazon makes up, adjusts, and fluctuates all because of complaints the system didn't work.

As someone who often publishes differently than the norm, I am uncomfortable relying on a steering committee to determine what's right for me and what everyone needs Amazon et al to change.

Just my opinion though.
I understand your reluctance, and the KU changes are a good example. However, I don't think that was really a case of Amazon listening to authors' complaints. I think Amazon wanted to make that change, anyway, because of authors of longer works leaving KU and customers complaining. Amazon knew there would be some people unhappy, so it behaved as if it was just responding to author input. I agree with you that the current KU system doesn't work well, but the previous one didn't, either.

If the steering committee has authors with diverse backgrounds and needs, that might address some of your concerns. It's important for the implications of various changes to be considered, and Amazon tends not to do that unless prompted. I do think that authors could probably work out ways to make us happier and help Amazon's bottom line, at least as far as books are concerned. A lot of what's happening now doesn't really benefit anyone except scammers.


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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2018, 10:57:47 AM »
ETA: I went there and clicked on the join button. I was sent to create a FACEBOOK acct in order to do so. That is a deal breaker for me. Sorry.
Some of us will throw into the suggestion box the idea that the group needs to have an option for non-Facebookers. While I think most authors have some kind of FB presence, I know several who don't, and it would be good if the group were open to the whole community.


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Offline JRTomlin

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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2018, 11:48:37 AM »
Some of us will throw into the suggestion box the idea that the group needs to have an option for non-Facebookers. While I think most authors have some kind of FB presence, I know several who don't, and it would be good if the group were open to the whole community.
I did until recently. That the reasons I don't now are political means I cannot discuss it here, but I absolutely will not use a Facebook account to join. If that means they don't want me as a member, I can live with that.


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Re: Author Support Network
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2018, 11:54:04 AM »
There are so many problematic words in there... scamming, stuffing, abuses, fair... Who defines these terms? Who decides if a practice is scamming or stuffing or an abuse? Who decides what is fair, and to whom? One person's stuffing is another person's bonus content, and even if indies could agree on that, there's still the question of what could or should be done about it. The recent l-o-n-g threads on these topics suggests that there is no way of uniting indies behind any particular proposal.

So although I like the idea in theory, I remain to be convinced that this will work, or that it will benefit the wider indie community.

I do think it would be very helpful if Amazon could be pushed to be clearer about what Amazon actually wants (even if what it wants turns out to be something a lot of us won't like). Clearer rules would allow us to get past basic definitional arguments and start planning for the long-term challenges of our selling environment, whatever it happens to be.

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