What Does it Take to Get Picked Up by Amazon's 47North?

[jnfr]

Ten books self-pubbed, six books with Orbit, three with 47North.

It's so great to see you've been able to move on from that old bad situation to your much better new one, David.

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[David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish]

It's so great to see you've been able to move on from that old bad situation to your much better new one, David.

No kidding.

[scribblr]

Did you have a bestseller if you were approached? How big of a bestseller was it? Did you have an agent at the time? How did it work? No need to discuss contract terms -- unless you feel like PM'ing me and doing so, I would love to hear it .  

TIA

As with the many of the other respondents here, I was approached by 47North. They contacted me by email to set up a conference call. I didn't then, and still don't, have an agent. I've had a number of best selling books in the sci-fi genre on Amazon and have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When you have a big pie, everyone wants a slice. The trouble with publishers is that they want most of the pie. I declined 47North's offer for several reasons. First and foremost, the contract they offered licensed my books to them for the term of copyright. That means 70 years beyond my death. Perhaps they've changed that now, but back in 2012, they would have owned my books forever. Second, when you consider that Amazon has about 60% of the eBook market, the royalty rate they were offering was no better than that offered by trad publishers, which I have also turned down. Third, Barnes and Noble will probably never sell the books offered by an Amazon imprint in their store, unless it's on a case by case basis arranged through agreement between the store manager and an author. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in every case I've heard of where a B&N store has an Amazon imprint in stock, that was the case, and it was limited to one store or a small area. Fourth, Amazon imprint eBooks will never be available in any other eBook store. I make enough from my sales through stores other than Amazon to enjoy a comfortable living. Would Amazon, with their marketing capability on their own website, sell enough copies to make up for that? Yeah, that's probably a given, but I already have that extra income, so I would just be shifting the royalties, and I would be getting a fraction of the Net I get from those other stores.

The folks at 47North were very pleasant to talk with and negotiate with, but at the end of the day, the terms of the deal just weren't right for me. We all have to decide what we want out of Indie publishing, and if 47North is your goal, go for it.

Good luck. Keep writing and keep working to improve your skills. When your sales and ratings begin to reflect success, 47North will be in touch.

  

[Joliedupre]

I just got approached (by Montlake) in December. I'm talking to them now. I don't know if others have submitted to them cold, or what. It seems like they cherry-pick among authors who sell well. (To make it clear, they didn't say, "We WILL publish you." They said, "we'd like you to submit your next series to us, if you're interested.")

At the time, I said I wasn't sure, but now I'm interested, because boy, do they push their authors! And I could still keep my own series up--and I think the increased visibility I'd get through them would be great for my own books, too. Plus, she told me they do both developmental editing and copy editing, which I'd really like. I feel like a good editor might help me take my writing to the next level.

Interestingly, they only approached me after I had my second book of my second series out, and they approached me about doing another series more like that--not the books that got me known in the first place. She basically said that they were interested because I'd shown I wasn't a one-trick pony, that it wasn't just the novelty New Zealand factor. Which is interesting to me, because I was very nervous about writing a different type of book, and if I'd just been thinking about selling, I would never have done that. But all the good stuff that's happened with Amazon has happened because I took that risk and did that second series.

Your question about sales stats: I'd been selling really well for a full year before they approached me.

Hope that helps. I'm actually quite excited about the idea of going the hybrid route with them and hope it works out. Best of luck to you with it.

Congrats, Rosalind!  I'm having so much fun reading about everyone's progresses and successes!!! 

[Jay Allan]

As with the many of the other respondents here, I was approached by 47North. They contacted me by email to set up a conference call. I didn't then, and still don't, have an agent. I've had a number of best selling books in the sci-fi genre on Amazon and have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When you have a big pie, everyone wants a slice. The trouble with publishers is that they want most of the pie. I declined 47North's offer for several reasons. First and foremost, the contract they offered licensed my books to them for the term of copyright. That means 70 years beyond my death. Perhaps they've changed that now, but back in 2012, they would have owned my books forever. Second, when you consider that Amazon has about 60% of the eBook market, the royalty rate they were offering was no better than that offered by trad publishers, which I have also turned down. Third, Barnes and Noble will probably never sell the books offered by an Amazon imprint in their store, unless it's on a case by case basis arranged through agreement between the store manager and an author. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in every case I've heard of where a B&N store has an Amazon imprint in stock, that was the case, and it was limited to one store or a small area. Fourth, Amazon imprint eBooks will never be available in any other eBook store. I make enough from my sales through stores other than Amazon to enjoy a comfortable living. Would Amazon, with their marketing capability on their own website, sell enough copies to make up for that? Yeah, that's probably a given, but I already have that extra income, so I would just be shifting the royalties, and I would be getting a fraction of the Net I get from those other stores.

The folks at 47North were very pleasant to talk with and negotiate with, but at the end of the day, the terms of the deal just weren't right for me. We all have to decide what we want out of Indie publishing, and if 47North is your goal, go for it.

Good luck. Keep writing and keep working to improve your skills. When your sales and ratings begin to reflect success, 47North will be in touch.

  

I pretty much agree with everything you said.  Just one question.  Did you think in terms of a book (or series) with Amazon simply to benefit from their added marketing push on the Amazon sites in terms of not just selling the contracted books but expanding your overall fanbase.  It seems if they moved an extra 10,000 units on Amazon, for example, you might pick up some thousands of new readers for other books.  Just curious on your thinking on this.

[redacted]

As with the many of the other respondents here, I was approached by 47North. They contacted me by email to set up a conference call. I didn't then, and still don't, have an agent. I've had a number of best selling books in the sci-fi genre on Amazon and have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When you have a big pie, everyone wants a slice. The trouble with publishers is that they want most of the pie. I declined 47North's offer for several reasons. First and foremost, the contract they offered licensed my books to them for the term of copyright. That means 70 years beyond my death. Perhaps they've changed that now, but back in 2012, they would have owned my books forever. Second, when you consider that Amazon has about 60% of the eBook market, the royalty rate they were offering was no better than that offered by trad publishers, which I have also turned down. Third, Barnes and Noble will probably never sell the books offered by an Amazon imprint in their store, unless it's on a case by case basis arranged through agreement between the store manager and an author. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in every case I've heard of where a B&N store has an Amazon imprint in stock, that was the case, and it was limited to one store or a small area. Fourth, Amazon imprint eBooks will never be available in any other eBook store. I make enough from my sales through stores other than Amazon to enjoy a comfortable living. Would Amazon, with their marketing capability on their own website, sell enough copies to make up for that? Yeah, that's probably a given, but I already have that extra income, so I would just be shifting the royalties, and I would be getting a fraction of the Net I get from those other stores.

The folks at 47North were very pleasant to talk with and negotiate with, but at the end of the day, the terms of the deal just weren't right for me. We all have to decide what we want out of Indie publishing, and if 47North is your goal, go for it.

Good luck. Keep writing and keep working to improve your skills. When your sales and ratings begin to reflect success, 47North will be in touch.  

That's interesting. I always read that Amazon's terms were incredibly more favorable than tradpubs, but to hear that it's almost the same (or at least not incredibly much, much better) is a bit of a surprise.

[scribblr]

I pretty much agree with everything you said.  Just one question.  Did you think in terms of a book (or series) with Amazon simply to benefit from their added marketing push on the Amazon sites in terms of not just selling the contracted books but expanding your overall fanbase.  It seems if they moved an extra 10,000 units on Amazon, for example, you might pick up some thousands of new readers for other books.  Just curious on your thinking on this.

The trad publishers I've talked to have wanted to lock me into writing trilogies for them. I would have been much more amenable to a single book deal, with first refusal rights on a next book, but they haven't been receptive. 47North wanted me to sign for four books. I would have done one, with a five-year license.

However, on another important issue, the trad publishers are finally starting to loosen up a bit. An agent told me she won't agree to a contract that contains a non-compete clause, and the publishers are accepting that. Now if the Big 5 would just loosen their stranglehold on the 25/75 rate. Eventually, they'll have to, but they want to take advantage just as long as they can.   

[scribblr]

That's interesting. I always read that Amazon's terms were incredibly more favorable than tradpubs, but to hear that it's almost the same (or at least not incredibly much, much better) is a bit of a surprise.

I don't know what they are currently offering. My offer came in April of 2012. The rate was 35% of Net. Random House only offered me 25% of Net. BUT, Random House sells to the entire market place. In other words, 100% of potential readers can buy your book. Amazon is by far the biggest reseller, but they only sell to 60% or 70% of the market place. 25% of 100% is 25%, while 35% of 70% is 24.5%. So yes, 47North's royalty rate is higher, until you do the math.   

[CraigInOregon]

Pity Amazon doesn't have a children's  imprint.

Yet. I expect it. I mean, they just launched a Christian imprint, after all. How far off can children's books be?

[CraigInOregon]

Ten books self-pubbed, six books with Orbit, three with 47North.

And millions in an off-shore account, I'm sure... lol

[redacted]

I don't know what they are currently offering. My offer came in April of 2012. The rate was 35% of Net. Random House only offered me 25% of Net. BUT, Random House sells to the entire market place. In other words, 100% of potential readers can buy your book. Amazon is by far the biggest reseller, but they only sell to 60% or 70% of the market place. 25% of 100% is 25%, while 35% of 70% is 24.5%. So yes, 47North's royalty rate is higher, until you do the math.   

Food for thought. Thanks for your experiences, scribblr.

[Jim Johnson]

Yet. I expect it. I mean, they just launched a Christian imprint, after all. How far off can children's books be?

Kay posted this in response to that...

Your wish has been granted!

http://www.apub.com/imprint-detail?imprint=11

[Jude Hardin]

I signed a four-book deal with Thomas and Mercer, the last of which was released November 2013. The ebook royalties are better than what you'll get with traditional publishers (they don't have to discount to themselves, so their net is automatically twice that of another publisher), but most brick and mortar stores refuse to stock Amazon titles. So it's kind of a tradeoff. And as far as I know they still only accept agented submissions. Unless they contact you directly, of course.

[redacted]

I signed a four-book deal with Thomas and Mercer, the last of which was released November 2013. The ebook royalties are better than what you'll get with traditional publishers (they don't have to discount to themselves, so their net is automatically twice that of another publisher), but most brick and mortar stores refuse to stock Amazon titles. So it's kind of a tradeoff. And as far as I know they still only accept agented submissions. Unless they contact you directly, of course.

Thanks for the info, Jude. I've been following you from Joe's blog and was hoping you'd chime in. How's iSEAL doing, by the way? I know you were pretty high on it while you were writing it. Did it hit as you expected?

[NedMarcus]

A useful thread. Is the situation still the same with 47 North and the other Amazon imprints? Does anyone have more recent experience?

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