Author Topic: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP  (Read 9583 times)  

Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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I sent the email below and received the following reply.

Dear KDP.
Please read this carefully before sending a canned reply.
A reader on Amazon.com, using a Kindle Fire HD (approx. one year old) downloaded a copy of my book Something to Read on the Plane through the KU programme on 19th June. She read the front matter  of 4 pages  in regular mode and then immediately changed to page flip mode to read a further 25 pages. The 4 pages have been credited to my account, but 72 hours later there is no sign of the other 25 pages even though all the pages were read at the same time with the device switched on.
Why werent the pages read in page flip mode credited to my account? I am concerned that I am losing credits if readers are using page flip
Thank you.

Hello,

I apologize for the inconvenience you have experienced.

Upon careful research, I can see that for your book "Something to Read on the Plane" has the follow KENPC page reads starting from June 19.

June 19 (Amazon.com) -4 page reads
June 20(Amazon.co.uk)-11 page reads
June 21(Amazon.co.uk)-91 page reads

I am sorry to inform that the pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read.

We do not see any material amount of reading happening within this feature, but we will continue to monitor it closely. As intended, were seeing that customers use Page Flip to explore and navigate in books while automatically saving their place.

I appreciate your understanding on this regards.

Thanks for using Amazon KDP.


So, now we have a definitive answer to lost page reads.  ::)

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    Offline 39416

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #1 on: June 23, 2018, 04:10:29 am »
    Holy cow. They finally admitted it. I bet whoever wrote you that answer will be out of a job today.

    "We do not see any material amount of reading happening within this feature, but we will continue to monitor it closely." --If Page Flip prevents them from seeing the pages read while in Page Flip mode, OF COURSE they wouldn't "see" all the pages read in Page Flip mode. What a total crock. I'm pretty sure Page Flip was eating 50% of my page reads before I finally gave up and left KU. Other authors have reported 75%. Total ... okay, I guess I can't use the colorful language that would fit here perfectly. So I'll settle for... AMAZON: IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHEAT US OUT OF PAGE READS HOW ABOUT PUTTING A NOTE ABOUT THAT ON YOUR KDP PAGE WARNING AUTHORS YOU DON'T REALLY PAY FOR PAGE READS?

    I'm thinking of sending them an email that while they designed a feature so they wouldn't see page reads (and therefore wouldn't have to pay for them) I could statistically see my missing page reads pretty clearly and I would like to be paid thank you. Maybe we should all send in such emails.

    Amazon's contract with us says they will pay for page reads. They have finally admitted they don't. They owe us money. 
    « Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 04:25:18 am by loraininflorida »

    Offline Avery342

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 04:15:20 am »
    Perhaps they "do not see" people reading in page flip mode because they are not looking.

    Good to finally have a definitive answer from Amazon, though. Don't usually get those!

    Offline Forgettable

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #3 on: June 23, 2018, 04:21:34 am »
    .
    « Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 04:14:49 pm by Forgettable »

    Online Lydniz

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #4 on: June 23, 2018, 04:29:22 am »
    This is not news. They've always been quite clear that pages read in page flip don't count.

    Offline 39416

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 04:38:28 am »
    The closest I've ever seen them admit to it before was their statement that Page Flip didn't "materially affect" authors. Personally I have never before seen anything where they clearly stated pages read in Page Flip are not counted. No matter. The point is that KDP has a contractual obligation to pay us for page reads read in KU and they are now clearly saying that they don't.

    Offline stephangeorge

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 04:42:24 am »
    Why would any one read a book in page flip mode? I tried and find it very annoying (as it's clearly not designed to for reading)...

    Offline Ann in Arlington

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 05:01:35 am »
    Why would any one read a book in page flip mode? I tried and find it very annoying (as it's clearly not designed to for reading)...

    I feel the same way. But apparently some do so. I really would be very surprised to find that it's more than a very small minority of the total number of kindle users/readers.
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    Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 05:10:42 am »
    I feel the same way. But apparently some do so. I really would be very surprised to find that it's more than a very small minority of the total number of kindle users/readers.

    I recall a similar thread where authors had reported that many readers were using page flip to read their ebooks.

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    Offline Kaliharper

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 05:16:29 am »
    I'd heard mention of this being the case before, but I always thought it was speculation. Nice to see a straight answer, or as straight as we can expect coming from Amazon.

    Offline Doglover

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #10 on: June 23, 2018, 05:28:08 am »
    Good thing it was only 25 pages.  >:(


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    Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #11 on: June 23, 2018, 05:41:00 am »
    Good thing it was only 25 pages.  >:(

    That's just the ones I know about. There's no way of knowing how many more page reads have been lost - and that's the problem  >:(.

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    Offline Doglover

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #12 on: June 23, 2018, 06:02:25 am »
    That's just the ones I know about. There's no way of knowing how many more page reads have been lost - and that's the problem  >:(.
    When this subject was first broached, I sen an email to my entire list requesting that they not read in page flip mode, but I don't know how much notice they took. One lady thought I was asking her to read the paperback version, so I obviously didn't make myself clear!


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    Offline 75845

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 06:14:44 am »
    It's not a bug it's a feature.

    I can easily read in Page Flip on my 10" tablet that I use for reading Kindle books at home since the Kindle died. Unfortunately it does not fit in the handbag for work. Oh flip.

    Online Lydniz

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 06:22:17 am »
    It's news to most people that read somewhere that this had been fixed ages ago :(

    As far as I'm aware it's never been fixed and never will be fixed because Amazon never intended people to read in page flip. Personally, I quite like reading in page flip, and I can't believe I'm the only one. But there you go. If people are reading KU books in page flip then the author will not get paid for it.

    Offline 39416

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 06:27:10 am »
    I'm thinking about filling out the online forms from both my State's Attorney General's Office ("The Consumer Protection Division of the Office of the Attorney General is the civil enforcement authority for violations of the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act. The Division protects consumers by pursuing individuals and entities that engage in unfair methods of competition or unconscionable, deceptive and unfair practices in trade or commerce. The Division also partners with other state attorneys general as well as state and federal agencies in joint enforcement efforts), and, the [federal] FTC. If enough past and present KU authors did that, maybe we would be paid.

    Offline Joseph M. Erhardt

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 06:30:13 am »
    What is stupid is that software can tell if someone is sitting on a page for several seconds before moving on, thus implying a read and not a scan.  This can be fixed, SIMPLY, and IN SOFTWARE.  And, it's not rocket surgery.  Seriously.

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    Offline 39416

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #17 on: June 23, 2018, 06:32:35 am »
    What is stupid is that software can tell if someone is sitting on a page for several seconds before moving on, thus implying a read and not a scan.  This can be fixed, SIMPLY, and IN SOFTWARE.  And, it's not rocket surgery.  Seriously.

    Why would Amazon want it fixed? Heck, they designed it.

    Offline Atlantisatheart

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #18 on: June 23, 2018, 06:49:24 am »
    Let's be honest here - this is Amazon and what does amazon use? Bots and Algos. I very much doubt they count a single page read at all.

    I should imagine they base page reads on sales, previous history of series or books, and those wonderful cliffs we all fall from. Glitches in the algo mean we get outlier days, up and down, and they throw us a bone or take one from us on occasion, but I can't believe that my page reads can tick along getting virtually the exact same reads for days and then start to fall as sales start to fall all on their own.

    What does the canned response say when we query low page reads? We've checked your history and we aren't seeing anything out of the norm with your pages.




    Offline Used To Be BH

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 06:50:36 am »
    Why would Amazon want it fixed? Heck, they designed it.
    To be fair, they probably weren't anticipating people doing their reading in page flip, but yes, I remember statements from two years ago in which Amazon reps said that Page Flip doesn't count pages read by design. If it were only used for people to quickly look things up and then return to the page they had been reading, that would one thing. That clearly isn't the case.

    If I recall, Amazon added the feature in part because Google Play has a similar feature. Of course, Google doesn't have a subscription program that pays based on pages read, so the situation is entirely different.
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    Offline Used To Be BH

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #20 on: June 23, 2018, 06:54:08 am »
    Let's be honest here - this is Amazon and what does amazon use? Bots and Algos. I very much doubt they count a single page read at all.

    I should imagine they base page reads on sales, previous history of series or books, and those wonderful cliffs we all fall from. Glitches in the algo mean we get outlier days, up and down, and they throw us a bone or take one from us on occasion, but I can't believe that my page reads can tick along getting virtually the exact same reads for days and then start to fall as sales start to fall all on their own.

    What does the canned response say when we query low page reads? We've checked your history and we aren't seeing anything out of the norm with your pages.
    We know Amazon doesn't really count pages because it became transparently obvious in the way scammers were working that Amazon was using the end point to calculate pages. However, I doubt Amazon is just inventing pages read based on sales figures and past history. My top-selling book is often not my top book in pages read, and sometimes sales move in one direction even as KU is moving in the other. Of course, there will be some correlation, but I think that's because a popular book will naturally draw both sales and borrows, and both are influenced by visibility. Less visibility will tend to equal fewer sales and fewer borrows. That doesn't mean Amazon is trying pages read from sales.
    I have not consented to the new Terms of Service, which were implemented without any announcement and without the ability to accept or reject them. My continued participation on the forum is related only to addressing this issue and cannot be construed as implied consent.  9/19/2018

    Offline Atlantisatheart

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #21 on: June 23, 2018, 07:28:23 am »
    We know Amazon doesn't really count pages because it became transparently obvious in the way scammers were working that Amazon was using the end point to calculate pages. However, I doubt Amazon is just inventing pages read based on sales figures and past history. My top-selling book is often not my top book in pages read, and sometimes sales move in one direction even as KU is moving in the other. Of course, there will be some correlation, but I think that's because a popular book will naturally draw both sales and borrows, and both are influenced by visibility. Less visibility will tend to equal fewer sales and fewer borrows. That doesn't mean Amazon is trying pages read from sales.

    I don't know, Bill, my nose starts to twitch when I get three days, like last month, of exactly the same page reads in a row - 38,238 - 38,238 - 38,238, like it was stuck in a grove or pausing for thought, and just before my new release went live.

    Coincidence, or just bad page reporting?

     


    Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #22 on: June 23, 2018, 07:40:09 am »
    Let's be honest here - this is Amazon and what does amazon use? Bots and Algos. I very much doubt they count a single page read at all.



    But the 4 pages read in regular mode did show up on my dashboard, so they are counting them.

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    Offline Joseph M. Erhardt

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #23 on: June 23, 2018, 07:42:13 am »
    Why would Amazon want it fixed? Heck, they designed it.

    Why would they fix it?

    1)  It's no coin out of their pocket.  The monthly pool doesn't change, just the distribution of the monthly pool.
    2)  It generates goodwill among their writers.

    Don't know if that's enough--we'll see.

    Joseph M. Erhardt

    Offline Going Incognito

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    Re: Pages viewed in Page Flip mode do not count toward pages read - KDP
    « Reply #24 on: June 23, 2018, 11:29:34 am »
    No one is going to lose their job for admitting it. It's been admitted since 2016
    https://www.kdpcommunity.com/s/article/KDPA1152?language=en

    Quote
    Some authors have asked questions about Page Flips usage not counting towards page counts. Page Flip is a navigational tool. By design, using it for navigation does not count toward pages read. We are monitoring Page Flip usage data and it is not being used for reading in any material way. We will continue to monitor for any changes in reader behavior.


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