Author Topic: Making box sets ineligible for KU bonuses: Questions and discussion  (Read 5626 times)  

Online Mark Dawson

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Dan Slater is delivering a very interesting presentation right now, and just said that box set page reads will not count towards KU All-Star bonuses. Thats a very positive step.



Thread title altered, given news posted below that the above may not be the case after all. The OP may make alterations as new info comes in. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 09:01:43 am by Becca Mills »

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    Offline Becca Mills

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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 02:01:40 pm »
    Wow. Did he say when that's going to take effect?

    I hope the new rule is paired with a clear and enforceable definition of what equals a boxed set (versus, say, a legit short story collection, book of poetry, or a frame-narrative work like A Thousand and One Nights).

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    Online Mark Dawson

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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 02:03:28 pm »
    No. Not yet. And definition is clearly going to be crucial. There was talk of tightening up metadata requirements.

    Offline Jim Johnson

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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 02:19:41 pm »
    It'll be interesting to see how this impacts those of us who publish series omnibuses.

    Offline Lori Devoti

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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 02:36:14 pm »
    I see a whole lot of backstory and unnecessary description being left in books... Or "character profiles" that you can skip but that are still part of the book... or... in other words, I don't see how this is much more than whack-a-mole.

    Offline Atlantisatheart

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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 02:52:47 pm »
    Wow, I guess Amazon really are serious about cleaning up their act. I can live with this.


    Offline Dpock

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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 03:09:16 pm »
    But will they still qualify for KU? Is this a blow to stuffers? (I'm not sure what it means.)


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    Re: Live from RWA
    « Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 03:32:27 pm »
    Thanks Mark. I couldn't afford to go this year. I've got a lot of my local RWA chapter there too. But it's nice to hear from others that are there. It's a really good conference, and the romance industry is so supportive of self-published authors. I sometimes wish the other genres would follow suit. I think they are missing out.  ;)

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    Online Mark Dawson

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 04:26:48 pm »
    Had to dash for my own presentation, but back in my room now.

    I think this is a good step. As I understand it, it means that box sets won't count towards the All Star bonuses. I imagine those pages read will be deducted from the totals when calculating the most read authors at the end of the month.

    It doesn't mean that box sets cant be in KU. (As an aside, I would be OK with that. If policed effectively, the stuffers just got chopped at the knees.)

    It'll be interesting to see how books are assessed when it comes to deciding what is a box set and what his not. Could be a metadata thing, but how would you enforce that if the author didn't note that it was a set. Or it could be a KENPC thing, with a lower limit set for bonus eligibility. I don't think that was it, but we will see.

    I get bonuses in the UK every month, and a big chunk of that is because of three KU box sets. I'm happy to forego that if it makes it less tempting to stuff.
    « Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 04:29:24 pm by Mark Dawson »

    Offline unkownwriter

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 04:39:08 pm »
    So, we can count this as official from Amazon? Maybe not rolled out yet, but coming? I only have some collections of shorts in KU, not really a box set as I understand them, and I'm not anywhere near bonus money.

    Offline Jim Johnson

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 04:51:45 pm »
    I don't think there's any question that they won't be eligible for all-star bonuses.

    That's too bad. I offered my omnibus as an alternative means to read the series. If future omnibus reads won't count toward potential all-star bonuses, there's not much reason to do an omnibus and have it in KU.

    Offline 9 Diamonds

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 04:52:46 pm »
    This is some good news.

    Online Mark Dawson

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 05:06:00 pm »
    That's too bad. I offered my omnibus as an alternative means to read the series. If future omnibus reads won't count toward potential all-star bonuses, there's not much reason to do an omnibus and have it in KU.

    Jim - the sets in KU will still get page reads. It's just the bonus.

    Offline Becca Mills

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #13 on: July 19, 2018, 05:11:23 pm »
    Thinking about it ... I'm guessing all authors who feel they have a reasonable shot at All-Star status will take their boxed sets out of KU (but keep them exclusive to Amazon, for those who want to purchase), so as to concentrate reads in the single volumes, where they'll count. Since it's likely to be a sudden and universal migration, hopefully none of these really bigtime authors will be disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers, and readers will quickly get used to having to borrow single books separately.

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    Offline Ava Glass

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #14 on: July 19, 2018, 06:24:38 pm »
    So, we can count this as official from Amazon? Maybe not rolled out yet, but coming?

    Rollout on August 1st? That's when Amazon released KENPC 3.0 last year.

    Offline CassieL

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #15 on: July 19, 2018, 06:34:41 pm »
    If they review only All-Star-eligible books that would be pretty easy to monitor for. (That would've been my approach in tackling this scamming problem. Start looking at books two weeks out from month-end that might be eligible for bonuses to identify any that are violating terms and shut them down.)

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    Offline Jim Johnson

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #16 on: July 19, 2018, 08:07:41 pm »
    Jim - the sets in KU will still get page reads. It's just the bonus.

    Yep, understood that. Becca got at what I was thinking--if box sets, compilations, omnibuses, whatever get page reads but don't count toward potential all-star bonuses, and assuming one goes into KU partly to take a shot at an all-star bonus, there's not much incentive for the author to place a box set, compilation, omnibus, etc. into KU, and would be  better off placing and promoting the series as individual books. That way the author is getting the page reads and getting counted toward any possible all-star bonus.

    Sure the collection would be more convenient for the reader, but a KU reader is getting to read the books and series either way.

    Offline JaclynDolamore

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 08:49:45 pm »
    I would still make box sets part of my strategy. I doubt I'm getting any KU bonuses any time soon but there's plenty of $$ to be made with them for those of us in the midlist. Seems like a pretty smart way to cut down on some of the scamming without banning box sets entirely or having to scrutinize every one with a fine tooth comb...

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    Offline Crystal_

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 09:00:33 pm »
    Wow, that's great news. If box sets don't count towards All Star bonuses, and any collection of multiple books must be labeled, that's a huge hit to re-titled stuffed books.

    Amazon is actually taking this seriously.

    I'm pleasantly surprised.

    Offline KelliWolfe

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 09:07:55 pm »
    Kinda makes you wonder if someone higher up on the food chain finally took a good look at what was going on in KDP/KU and said straighten your act up ASAFP or else, and is keeping a close eye out to make sure they follow through.

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    Offline SeanHinn

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #20 on: July 19, 2018, 09:34:05 pm »
    This is a FAR better solution than reducing the page limit across the board. Still hurts legit congruous serials a bit, but at least single-volume epics will still be eligible and legitimate serials will be compensated fairly by KENP, as they should be.

    Glad to know our voices were heard, and Amazon didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Offline erikhanberg

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #21 on: July 19, 2018, 10:39:00 pm »
    I'm pretty happy with the Amazon series page for my trilogy. I have the cover ready to go for a box set, but I might just encourage people toward that page instead. There's still a button to buy them all at once.
    « Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 03:01:41 pm by erikhanberg »

    Online Mark Dawson

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #22 on: July 20, 2018, 12:20:28 am »
    The solution might be slightly more nuanced than I originally thought. Stay tuned. I think this will turn out well.

    Offline Phxsundog

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #23 on: July 20, 2018, 12:46:28 am »
    This is the best compromise they could've come up with for KU. Losing bonuses and insisting on proper labeling will be a major disincentive for stuffers to abuse box sets. I agree with the theory saying something has lit more urgency for KDP to clean up its act. Whether it was the bad press or social media firestorm, Amazon realized how bad the manipulation had gotten and decided to get ahead of future unsavory tactics for once. Have to give credit where credit is due.

    Offline unkownwriter

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    Re: Box sets no longer eligible for KU bonuses
    « Reply #24 on: July 20, 2018, 03:08:54 am »
    Rollout on August 1st? That's when Amazon released KENPC 3.0 last year.

    Makes sense to me.

    Just to clarify things, if a box set isn't in KU, it still has to be exclusive to Amazon since the contents are in KU separately. It could be in KU, even, it just wouldn't count towards any bonuses, but readers could still take up only one "slot" on their borrow list. That shouldn't get readers too upset with authors, since they can still get the content.

    Whatever lit the fire under their butts, let's hope it keeps burning. Someone has to stay on top of these people, or they'll just find another loophole and we'll have two more years of crap like this.


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