Author Topic: Series & Omnibus  (Read 928 times)  

Offline Kathy Dee

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Series & Omnibus
« on: July 12, 2020, 03:54:17 am »
Quick question for those who write series and then compile everything in an omnibus: do you put the omnibus inside the series or have it standalone?

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    Offline notjohn

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #1 on: July 12, 2020, 05:34:14 am »
    Well, whatever you do, don't call it an omnibus!

    (Don't call it a "boxed set," either, unless you plan to put it in a box.)
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    Offline Kathy Dee

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #2 on: July 12, 2020, 07:32:53 am »
    Well, whatever you do, don't call it an omnibus!

    (Don't call it a "boxed set," either, unless you plan to put it in a box.)

    I appreciate the boxed set thing - I have fallen foul of that in the past.

    But why not 'omnibus'?

    Is it a regional thing? UK people would understand 'omnibus'; perhaps US (and/or elsewhere) would not.

    Offline VisitasKeat

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #3 on: July 12, 2020, 08:15:10 am »
    How can you have an omnibus inside a series? The omnibuses become a meta-series as more and more episodes are published as eBooks. And the meta-series themselves can be further grouped as meta-meta-series, which is all-in-one editions. But I think there is 3000 page limit for eBooks on Amazon. That would impact the all-in-one editions in the long run. Omnibuses are periodical collections. So, no problem there.

    The omnibus is different from bundles and boxed sets. Bundles can be a collection of eBooks not necessarily in a series while box is for print editions. Bundles and boxes can also be multi-author products.

    Offline Decon

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #4 on: July 12, 2020, 10:12:54 am »
    Quick question, long answer. Lol

    I'm originally from the UK and have heard omnibus enough times but never really connected with its meaning even when I've heard omnibus, so I looked it up.

    Merriam Webster  US.
    Passenger bus
    Collection of stories.

    UK. Oxford.
    Collection of previously published stories.
    Radio and television broadcasts of a series of episodes previously broadcast.
    Bus. Horse drawn transport, derived from French.
    Omni, Latin

    I guess it is correct to call what most say is a boxed set an Omnibus edition, either in the UK or the US, though I refer to my short stories as, a collection, but then they were not previously published individually.

    Omni means, "all" in Latin. An example would be, the word omnipotence which derives from the Latin term "omni potens", meaning "All-Powerful and omnibus is used to describe many things from legal terms to stockbroking and banking terms for collection of accounts. Anyway, Omnibus edition describes exactly what it is, if it is a collection of previously separately published book even if they formed part of a series or say a trilogy, or standalone stories by an author

    In effect it is a completely separate edition to the individual books Eg Omnibus edition

    Usual proviso, never published one so I don't know how the publishing world name them.
    « Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 10:24:02 am by Decon »


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    Online Gareth K Pengelly

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #5 on: July 12, 2020, 10:21:32 am »
    Think when I do a box set, I'm just gonna call it a 'collection.' Save all the hoohah about semantics, haha.

    Offline Decon

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #6 on: July 12, 2020, 10:38:47 am »
    Think when I do a box set, I'm just gonna call it a 'collection.' Save all the hoohah about semantics, haha.

    Collections or Omnibus editions pulls up search results on kindle, so either is good, but I think whichever you choose it's wise to have both at least as keywords at upload to be added to the meta data for searches.

    You might find different, but my search for "collections" brought up more short story collections.

    Another that cropped up in the subtitles of either Collections or Omnnibus editions was "chronicles"mainly for a collection of short series stories as far as I could see. So you could have as a series title and subtitle as an example. The Elf Chronicle Series: Omnibus Edition of a Collection of fantasy Stories. as a catch all. lol. You'd just need the subtitle on the cover to be on the safe side for Amazon T&C
    « Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 01:25:24 pm by Decon »


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    Offline Kathy Dee

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #7 on: July 12, 2020, 09:40:50 pm »
    How can you have an omnibus inside a series?

    Yeah, for the few I've done so far, the anthology (omnibus or whatever) has always been outside. But I wondered what others were doing.

    Offline VisitasKeat

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 10:54:17 pm »
    Yeah, for the few I've done so far, the anthology (omnibus or whatever) has always been outside. But I wondered what others were doing.
    Here is a crazy idea!

    First publish an omnibus, say 1-4, and give a series name. So, Amazon will okay it assuming you will come up with 5-8, 9-12, and so on.

    Now, after publishing one or more omnibuses, start publishing the individual episodes as separate standalone stories where protagonist and other character names are different in each story, as also the case with the locations for world building. You can also include major changes in plot. This will result in different page counts for the new stories when compared with the originals. Doing so itself is a challenge in the creative process but note that it is utterly unethical to publish the original episodes as such at a later stage.

    Offline Kathy Dee

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #9 on: July 14, 2020, 12:20:50 am »
    Here is a crazy idea!

    First publish an omnibus, say 1-4, and give a series name. So, Amazon will okay it assuming you will come up with 5-8, 9-12, and so on.

    Now, after publishing one or more omnibuses, start publishing the individual episodes as separate standalone stories where protagonist and other character names are different in each story, as also the case with the locations for world building. You can also include major changes in plot. This will result in different page counts for the new stories when compared with the originals. Doing so itself is a challenge in the creative process but note that it is utterly unethical to publish the original episodes as such at a later stage.

    Too crazy for me, I'm afraid!

    Online Gareth K Pengelly

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #10 on: July 14, 2020, 05:34:12 am »
    Piggy-backing on this thread to ask a question.

    If you have a long series (ie ten books) and the first book in the series is permafree, whilst every other book is in KU...

    You can still make an omnibus and put it in KU, right? 10% rule. isn't it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

    Offline VisitasKeat

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #11 on: July 14, 2020, 08:51:04 am »
    Piggy-backing on this thread to ask a question.

    If you have a long series (ie ten books) and the first book in the series is permafree, whilst every other book is in KU...

    You can still make an omnibus and put it in KU, right? 10% rule. isn't it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.
    Good observation!

    Price matching is ASIN based but the omnibus certainly contains Book 1 which alone has gone wide. So, logically Book 1 shouldn't be included in KU as part of omnibus. However, this ASIN is different. Moreover, the entire Book 1 content shows only if the omnibus has a large number of pages. So, it isn't entirely free as such in many cases. Oh, my all-in-one shows off the entire first novelette for free! Contradiction! Contradiction!

    Offline ShayneRutherford

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #12 on: July 14, 2020, 01:33:49 pm »

    If you have a long series (ie ten books) and the first book in the series is permafree, whilst every other book is in KU...

    You can still make an omnibus and put it in KU, right? 10% rule. isn't it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

    When you put your books in KU you're agreeing to have them exclusive to Amazon. That first book is not exclusive to Amazon, after you agreed to keep it exclusive, so you're breaking the TOS.
             

    Online Gareth K Pengelly

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #13 on: July 14, 2020, 02:10:23 pm »
    When you put your books in KU you're agreeing to have them exclusive to Amazon. That first book is not exclusive to Amazon, after you agreed to keep it exclusive, so you're breaking the TOS.

    See, this is where it gets confusing.

    I read that no more than 10% of any published work can be non-exclusive, were you to put it in KU.

    So if the boxset comprised ten books, the first book being non-exclusive, if that first book amounts to less than 10% of the total pages of the boxset then surely you're in the clear, right?

    Or is it such muddy waters that I'd be best playing it safe, and leaving book one out of the boxset entirely? That way I can just put 2-5 and 6-10 in the boxset and KU them without any possible repurcussions.

    Offline ShayneRutherford

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #14 on: July 14, 2020, 04:50:49 pm »
    See, this is where it gets confusing.

    I read that no more than 10% of any published work can be non-exclusive, were you to put it in KU.

    So if the boxset comprised ten books, the first book being non-exclusive, if that first book amounts to less than 10% of the total pages of the boxset then surely you're in the clear, right?

    Or is it such muddy waters that I'd be best playing it safe, and leaving book one out of the boxset entirely? That way I can just put 2-5 and 6-10 in the boxset and KU them without any possible repurcussions.
    If you want to get into semantics it says 10% of your book, not 10% of a box set. Also, it says a sample, not an entire novel.

    Personally, I choose to interpret the spirit of the rule rather than the letter - which is that Amazon doesnt want people giving away entire novels after theyve agreed to exclusivity - rather than trying to find a loophole. Because if too many people start exploiting this kind of loophole, next thing you know, box sets wont be allowed in Select anymore. Amazon uses a sledge hammer to solve problems, not a scalpel, and they will always interpret things in their favor.
             

    Online Gareth K Pengelly

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #15 on: July 14, 2020, 05:42:57 pm »
    If you want to get into semantics it says 10% of your book, not 10% of a box set. Also, it says a sample, not an entire novel.

    Personally, I choose to interpret the spirit of the rule rather than the letter - which is that Amazon doesnt want people giving away entire novels after theyve agreed to exclusivity - rather than trying to find a loophole. Because if too many people start exploiting this kind of loophole, next thing you know, box sets wont be allowed in Select anymore. Amazon uses a sledge hammer to solve problems, not a scalpel, and they will always interpret things in their favor.

    That makes sense, Shayne. Better to play it safe than get hit with the Amahammer!

    So I'm assuming, then, that of the many people on here with boxsets, no-one has a permafree book one as part of that? They will always have book 2-5 or whatever as their set instead?

    Offline ShayneRutherford

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #16 on: July 14, 2020, 07:12:50 pm »
    That makes sense, Shayne. Better to play it safe than get hit with the Amahammer!

    So I'm assuming, then, that of the many people on here with boxsets, no-one has a permafree book one as part of that? They will always have book 2-5 or whatever as their set instead?

    Definitely! :)

    I think most people are all-in with Select.
             

    Offline Lydniz

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #17 on: July 15, 2020, 06:34:02 am »
    That makes sense, Shayne. Better to play it safe than get hit with the Amahammer!

    So I'm assuming, then, that of the many people on here with boxsets, no-one has a permafree book one as part of that? They will always have book 2-5 or whatever as their set instead?

    I have permafrees in my box sets but I am wide. And I price the box sets accordingly, so they're still cheaper than buying all three books separately.

    Online Gareth K Pengelly

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #18 on: July 15, 2020, 07:02:47 am »
    I have permafrees in my box sets but I am wide. And I price the box sets accordingly, so they're still cheaper than buying all three books separately.

    Ah that's fair.

    I'm in KU, but seeing as my permafree is, well, free, I think it'd be as well to do a boxset of 2-10. I mean, they're not likely to pull the trigger on the boxset till they've read the first one anyway, I suppose, haha.

    Offline VisitasKeat

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    Re: Series & Omnibus
    « Reply #19 on: July 19, 2020, 04:21:57 am »
    Okay, based on this thread comments, I have delisted and deleted (unpublished) my permafree first fantasy episode from Draft2Digital. Thanks Gareth and Shayne!

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