Author Topic: The danger of buying your own books/Mark Dawson buys 400 copies of his own book  (Read 25183 times)  

Offline VisitasKeat

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And ripe with the opportunity for identity theft.

Needless to say, I can't imagine anyone actually believing that an 'independent agency' could 100% safeguard their privacy. Especially when money's involved.

Identity theft is a real thing, but beyond the scope of this conversation.
Alternatively,  customers can be authenticated using their mobile phone numbers.

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    Offline CassieL

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    I've personally decided that the continued absolutely absurd statements in this thread about getting video footage, collecting social security numbers, giving Mark a drug test, etc. are actually being made by supporters of Mark's to cast this whole thing in such an absurd light that people decide it was all a-okay because those comments are trying to say, "look at the extreme to which people will take things if you start to look for bad acts."

    So I'm done here. I don't condone what he did and no amount of back and forth will change that opinion, but I'm also not out to make this into more than it is.

    8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.

    Offline VisitasKeat

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    The previous post (before this one) is very vitriolic. Not good for a thread where forum decorum hasn't been breached. I'm the only one who mentioned certain things said in the previous post. So, "supporters" is a wrong word here. No support or finger pointing by me but only an objective analysis.

    As things stand, as of now, Dawson is innocent before the laws of the land unless proven otherwise by a...<fill up the blanks. I promised Becca that I won't repeat about certain things>


    Offline Becca Mills

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    Okay, Becca, but I took that shot because the case needs to be examined from all angles, so that co-conspirators don't get away.

    To keep the thread open, let's keep posts grounded in known facts and workable solutions going forward. The more speculative posts in the thread are the only ones triggering reports.

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    Offline boxer44

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    I've been publishing for over thirty years, mostly non-fiction but some novels.  Never has a publisher refused to either sell to me at wholesale, or often given at least some free promo copies then sold at wholesale if I needed more.

    In my eyes, the issue is buying and counting these books as sales to climb a list.  Regardless of the reasons, excuses, justifications, or strategy - that one issue stands at the top of the "do not buy retail and claim it as sales", particularly with the "I didn't know it" result follows.  He knew it.

    It reminds me of a politician that gets caught with his pants down, and resigns "for family reasons" just before the "pants down" photo and story hits the press. He hopes no one will notice, or it will get lost in the shuffle, or something bigger will kick it off the news. That's just attempting to protect an image already lost.

    When an author is in charge, as much as this author is in charge, the 'already filmed so we played it first' podcast reason sounds like hogwash.  Anyone of those could have been dumped, or gone live and admitted it and apologized BEFORE the book/list information hit the public.

    Never heard of this guy before this post, have not read his work and will not in the future.

    Offline Indy Strange

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    Long post. Apologies for the eye fatigue.

    Mark Dawson talked about his own purchase of 400 of his hardcover books yesterday, July 31, in his podcast. (He has also discussed it before, but he said that this would be the last time.)

    Full and unedited transcript follows. Any comments or questions from me are in brackets []. Of note, this was not a live podcast but a prerecorded and edited show that is owned and run by Mark. As they mention in the transcript, episode was recorded Monday July 27 and premiered Friday July 31.

    The Self Publishing Show, episode 237: Self Publishing Sisters: Keeping it in the Family
    youtube.com/watch?v=xXDTQEsKGRw


    Transcript begins around 00:02:25. Mark was joined by James Blatch, his regular co-host.

    [...]

    After the guests, excerpt around 01:07:00:

    [...]

    Excerpt around 01:09:50:

    [...]

    * one of the articles about Mark Dawson's purchase of 400 hardbacks in The Guardian claimed that the book initially hit the 13 spot on the chart, and then after that Dawson made the decision to try and boost it higher:

    An author bought his own book to get higher on bestseller lists. Is that fair?
    Monday 20 July 2020
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/jul/20/an-author-bought-his-own-book-to-get-higher-on-bestseller-lists-is-that-fair

    On the latest episode of his Self Publishing Show podcast, Dawson explained why he did it. When Nielsen released its midweek chart, Dawson had realised that The Cleaner was sitting at No 13, having sold around 1,300 copies that week -- just outside the coveted top 10. He hit on the idea of buying the book himself in the UK, to sell to readers overseas. "We'd like to get to the top 10 ... we've been trying to think of ways we can do that that would count those sales as sales for the chart," he said.

    After sending an email to gauge interest, around 400 people in the US said they would buy the book if he bought the copies himself first. So Dawson went to a children's bookshop in Salisbury. "I said, 'would you be interested if I placed an order for 400 hardbacks of my own book?'," said Dawson on the podcast. "They were like, 'Yes, of course.'"

    Several authors on social media have since shared their concerns over Dawson's strategy, including thriller writer Clare Mackintosh, who said it was "disingenuous" that Dawson, when celebrating his top 10 spot on Twitter, had not also shared that he had personally bought almost a quarter of the books that got him there. Dawson maintained he was just fulfilling orders, though on his podcast he specified that he had expressions of interest from abroad rather than firm sales.


    edit: formatting.



    This post has been edited to remove extensive quotations of a podcast transcript, at the request of the copyright holder. The entire transcript is available here: https://selfpublishingformula.com/episode-237/. Quotation of public sources is permitted at KBoards, but if a copyright holder demands their material be taken down, we take a look at the individual situation vis-a-vis the doctrine of fair use and make the best judgment we can, as non-lawyers. In this case, the quotations were massive and were not being critiqued or analyzed in a significant way. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca

    I would probably make a lot of comments about this podcast episode, but it's so awkward and bending over backward to appease Dawson that I can't stop laughing. It must be nice to be considered so 'Naive' when it comes to self-publishing but have people willing to spend $300+ on courses from me.
    « Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 04:49:55 am by Becca Mills »
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    Offline Redgum

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    In my eyes, the issue is buying and counting these books as sales to climb a list.  Regardless of the reasons, excuses, justifications, or strategy - that one issue stands at the top of the "do not buy retail and claim it as sales", particularly with the "I didn't know it" result follows.  He knew it.

    Succinctly put.

    Offline Triceratops

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    This is the second of three podcasts where Mark Dawson talked about his purchase of 400 of his own hardbacks. We're going in reverse order here; a couple of days ago up-thread I posted the transcript of the third and (so far?) last podcast Mark recorded wherein he spoke of his hardback purchase. So, one more podcast to go after this. That podcast conversation is a long one, nine minutes. I'll try to post it here in a day or two. Unless the mods lock the thread. :)

    In this episode below, Mark speaks about his delight in hitting number 8 on the Sunday Times hardback bestseller list as a result of him purchasing 400 of his own hardbacks. The previous week, when Mark's book had first debuted on the list, before Mark made his buy, the book had landed at 13.

    Full and unedited excerpt transcript follows. Any comments or questions from me are in brackets []. This was not a live podcast but a prerecorded and edited show that is owned and run by Mark Dawson. Episode was recorded Monday July 13 and premiered Friday July 17.

    The Self Publishing Show, episode 235: Collaboration for Authors: Writing in Someone Else's World
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Uc6G2EVfA

    Transcript begins around 00:00:48. Mark was joined by James Blatch, his regular co-host.




    This post has been edited to remove a quotation of a podcast transcript, at the request of the copyright holder. The entire transcript is available here: https://selfpublishingformula.com/episode-235/. Quotation of public sources is permitted at KBoards, but if a copyright holder demands their material be taken down, we take a look at the individual situation vis-a-vis the doctrine of fair use and make the best judgment we can, as non-lawyers. In this case, the quotation is limited but it's not being critiqued or analyzed in a significant way. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
    « Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 04:55:47 am by Becca Mills »

    Offline MMSN

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     "just to be a Sunday Times Top Ten bestseller, which is, that was the whole, um, objective of the exercise... it was touch and go cause we weren't sure that those sales would all count"

    Innocent. Totally innocent.  :P

     

    Offline Redgum

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    "...but, um, last, end of last week we were just trying to figure out ways to, um, get books to non-UK readers who had bought them, um. And then that occasioned me going down to the local book shop and ordering 400 copies of my own hardback.... your honour."

    But seriously - "non-UK readers who had bought them" - is this right? I'm still not sure those American readers had bought them in advance. He bought them and then said he'd sign them and if you want them I'll sell you one. Am I wrong or right about that? It's irrelevant to the wider point because even if they had been bought in advance they are still non-UK sales so don't count on the UK Top Ten list and are still gaming the system. But if it's not true this is a bare-faced lie to his listeners.
    « Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 03:51:40 pm by Redgum »

    Offline unkownwriter

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    I don't care how much people twist themselves into pretzels to excuse this. The man admitted himself, more than once, that it was done to move his book up the best selling list. What else do you need to pronounce this unethical? Seriously, some people...

    The fact is this: Mark Dawson is not some newbie who got sold a Kindle get rick quick scheme. He's a professional, an educated man, one who's been around self publishing for years. He knew what he did was wrong, and would cause people to go crazy when it was found out. But, I'm guessing he figured all the "good" he's done for the indie community would negate it (and in some cases, he's right, it seems some will forgive all).

    And Mark, you know darn well that this is not how indies behave, in general. The vast majority of us simply want to sell books to people who want to read them. We aren't out there doing things to get us further up the charts, we aren't bulk-buying books and expecting people to be okay with it. We aren't doubling down and making it look like all self publishers are lying, cheating schemers out to make a buck. Get real, dude. Admit you did wrong and maybe people will stop talking about it.

    And I've lost all interest in ALLi, too. Sheesh, how mealy-mouthed can you get?

    Offline jb1111

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    You know, reading through all of this thread over the past week or so, and not ever having watched a Mark Dawson vid, and hardly even knowing who the guy is, I've reached this conclusion: whatever he did was on impulse. Perhaps it was that one chance to grab the brass ring and see one's book finally on a big, national newspaper's chart. And the way it was done would appear somewhat legitimate, right? After all, they would end up being real sales.

    Things people do on impulse, when a door opens, can sometimes backfire -- as we have seen. I would gather he didn't sit in his house and ponder over the decision and its ramifications for a week, agonizing over whether to do it or not. It probably was something done on the spur of the moment, maybe with some help by others who weren't giving the possible ramifications a ton of thought, either.

    All just pure speculation here, of course, but we've all devoted 9 thread pages so far attempting to take it all apart when it probably was just something done by impulse.

    Offline ........

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    Those podcasts and still not a whisper of answering the question: did Mark Dawson have the option to buy author copies from his publisher?

    Answer is almost certainly yes, except those books wouldn't have been counted for the list.

    Mark needs to answer this question.

    Offline Redgum

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    Those podcasts and still not a whisper of answering the question: did Mark Dawson have the option to buy author copies from his publisher?

    Answer is almost certainly yes, except those books wouldn't have been counted for the list.

    Mark needs to answer this question.

    He hasn't addressed this point in any of his podcasts and now he has said he's drawing a line under it so I doubt we'll ever know. To echo unkownwriter's comment above, Mark is a very astute businessman and I'd put money on there being very few indies out there who know the system better than he does, if any. Would he negotiate a deal with Welbeck where he was not allowed to buy copies from them? Doubtful. He knew what he was doing. This is why I reject jb1111's theory about impulse.

    Why he got himself into such a pickle here is because of his SPF company. This company trades on his (deserved) reputation as a very astute businessman and independent author and publisher. That's the whole shtick - pay me because I know this game inside out. Yet now he argues he had no idea what all the "kerfuffle" (to quote him) is all about.

    So which is it? Did he game the system on purpose and lie about it to cover it up, but remains an expert in the field of self-publishing who commands people's respect? Or is he a naive fool who is misrepresenting himself as an expert in self-publishing, who didn't know a Basis 101 fact about publishing and lists? This is the pickle.




    « Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 09:42:08 pm by Redgum »

    Offline Triceratops

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    This is the first podcast episode where Mark Dawson reveals his purchase of 400 of his own hardbacks. When Mark drops the news he seems to catch his co-host James Blatch off guard.

    It appears from the episode that Mark purchased his own 400 hardbacks on the same day that he recorded this show, Monday July 6. Mark also said in the podcast that he had previously in his newsletters solicited interest for selling signed hardbacks, and that some people had in turn emailed him with their interest or possible interest in buying. Dawson also spoke of his challenges trying to figure out how to charge credit cards, take addresses and run fulfillment -- "how do we take payment, and how do we get [the hardbacks] shipped?" -- and his efforts to set up on his website a store to sell paper books.

    Full and unedited excerpt transcript follows. Any comments or questions from me are in brackets []. This was not a live podcast but a prerecorded and edited show that is owned and run by Mark Dawson. Episode was recorded Monday July 6 and premiered Friday July 10.

    The Self Publishing Show, episode 234: How to Automate Your Amazon Ads - with Dierk Demers
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCgXPU2bGTw

    Transcript begins around 00:01:40. Mark was joined by James Blatch, his regular co-host.

    [...]

    Beginning around 00:13:12

    [...]

    edit: formatting.



    This post has been edited to remove a quotation of a podcast transcript, at the request of the copyright holder. The entire transcript is available here: https://selfpublishingformula.com/episode-234/. Quotation of public sources is permitted at KBoards, but if a copyright holder demands their material be taken down, we take a look at the individual situation vis-a-vis the doctrine of fair use and make the best judgment we can, as non-lawyers. In this case, the quotation is limited but it's not being critiqued or analyzed in a significant way. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
    « Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 05:01:47 am by Becca Mills »

    Offline markpauloleksiw

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    This is all about a man's ego. No more. No less.

    He seemed perplexed that his book was not in as many retail stores as possible.

    Here is what I don't understand. This bookstore...IS A CHILDREN"s BOOKSTORE....would never carry a novel not meant for children. So the store had likely no copies. There are quite a few people who seem to have been caught in this web. Very strange how the "accounting" for this transaction took place.

    Mark


    Offline MMSN

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    Well at least now we have the "proper" terminology.

    Buying your own books to make the top ten list is 'taking an executive decision.' It's not the bad names the rest of us have been calling it; at worst it's only 'grandiose.' But I do take exception to the interviewer's name for it of, 'You've gone old-school!'

    I do however give the interviewer the "Understatement of the Year Award!" for his assessment that 'you're going to be very frustrated if [the whole thing goes ker-boom.]'
    « Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 03:04:26 pm by MMSN »

    Offline LaBelleOtero

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    So which is it? Did he game the system on purpose and lie about it to cover it up, but remains an expert in the field of self-publishing who commands people's respect? Or is he a naive fool who is misrepresenting himself as an expert in self-publishing, who didn't know a Basis 101 fact about publishing and lists? This is the pickle.
    I'm not a publishing expert. Most of my info is kind of dated.
    But this I know, because it's a very old game: it is standard practice for agencies to buy books from the bookstores they know are counted by Neilson in the first week of a release, providing the publisher/author is willing to pay to play. It happens a lot with political figure books (as I recall from what I read) as well as others. The original article I read described how they did it and got around Neilson in detail. Sorry I don't have the link, and it was some years ago now. It was (is?) such a pervasive practice that I remember walking away from that article thinking that 50% of the bestseller lists were... meaningless, contrived [crap].
    Anyway, I'm having a really hard time believing that marketing guru Mark Dawson knows less than I do about how Neilson works.

    Offline Redgum

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    Anyway, I'm having a really hard time believing that marketing guru Mark Dawson knows less than I do about how Neilson works.

    That's the crux of it. No one with any knowledge of indie publishing (i.e. those who SPF targets as customers) can deduct anything other than "nefarious aforethought". if I can put it like that. The mysterious absence of any explanation of whether or not Welbeck offered him discount copies also looms large. To me, it looks like they planned the whole thing in advance, including riding the free publicity if they got caught. Whether that strategy works or not, we'll see. The two things I will take away from this, above all the others, were 1) Mark and James talking on their podcast about how gaming the system was the "indie thing to do" and 2) Mark throwing people off his SPF FB page who had paid to be there, just because they described his actions as unethical.
    « Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 04:06:43 am by Redgum »

    Offline Triceratops

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    Mark Dawson claims, and The Guardian seems to agree, that he did not break the rules in buying his own books for a "virtual book signing." Rules and laws aside, whether or not he acted immorally or unethically, is a separate issue.

    But, let's go back to the rules thing. Okay, an author buys lots of copies of their own book for a book signing, virtual or otherwise. I feel like the author can abide by the rules if

    a. he sells to his readers every single one of those copies he bought, and he has no copies left over at the conclusion of the book signing; and

    b. he sells every single one of those copies in the same week that Nielsen is reporting book sales.

    Meaning, if Dawson failed to sell even one of those 400 books by Saturday July 11, the last day of that reporting week, then he gamed the system.

    Nielsen BookScan gets point-of-sale data from many sources every week. The reporting period runs Sunday to Saturday. The best selling books are listed, in the UK territory, as Sunday Times bestsellers. But the sales are supposed to correspond to actual purchases by people that week.

    If actual readers did not need to buy the copies on the reporting week, for the sales to count, then that would be a problem. There would be nothing to stop any Big Author from buying thousands of books, sticking them in a storage container, and then selling them off as signed copies over weeks, months, years. Big Authors could hit number one in the charts every single time.

    And Nielsen knows it. But, Nielsen makes allowances for bulk buys that happen with author signings on a particular day, or at the most, a particular week. Because actual readers are actually buying the books, on that week. So, those book buys count toward tracking.

    But warehousing, aka "sitting on the copies," is cheating.

    Dawson made clear in his podcast recorded July 6/premiered July 10 that as of that day, July 6, the same day he bought the 400 books, that he had only received some e-mails from readers that amounted to expressions of interest. He had not actually charged any credit cards nor shipped any books to his readers. He had made zero sales.

    And then in his next podcast recorded July 13/premiered July 17, he mentioned that every one of those 400 books, all 35 boxes of them, were still sitting in his garage. He didn't say if he had even yet charged any credit cards or shipped any books.

    But his store website was still not operational. On July 12 in his public Facebook account, Mark mentioned that he still had not created a method for non-UK people to purchase the hardcover: "I'll have a link for non-UK readers to get a signed hardback in the next few days." https://www.facebook.com/markdawsonauthor/photos/a.566475940084705/3174712145927725/

    In the last podcast recorded July 27/premiered July 31, Dawson said: "the readers wanted signed copies, I signed them, I, I sent them off. " So to be clear, with that statement Dawson was saying

    1. that he had sold every one of those 400 books by that time, 3 weeks after he had purchased them in his local book shop;

    2. that he had paid free shipping to the USA, which as he said came to 18 pounds sterling per book airmail (18 x 400 = 7,200 pounds), or 10 pounds surface mail (10 x 400 = 4,000 pounds). But he sounds so cagey about it, in that podcast, that an impartial observer might wonder if he actually still had boxes of those books in his garage.

    Any way he spins it, Mark Dawson bought those books during the Nielsen reporting week of July 5 - July 11, however it seems in that week at minimum he sold none. It sounds from his own words that he simply on impulse wanted to bump his book into the Top Ten. He made an "executive" decision. So he whipped over to the local book shop and put 400 of his own books on his Mastercard. He figured he would sort out the actual sales later. And he was pleased with his own thinking outside of the box.

    But what he didn't count on was that Nielsen takes the integrity and truthfulness of their data very seriously. Nielsen's computers pinged that 400 sales had registered from only one shop. So they called Welbeck, the trad publisher -- who almost certainly were shocked -- and Welbeck in turn gave Dawson's number to Nielsen. Dawson then told Nielsen that he had simply bought the books for a "virtual book signing."

    Did Nielsen specifically ask Mark Dawson if those books were or would be all sold by July 11? We don't know what Paul Walker, the Nielsen UK & Ireland Managing Director, asked Dawson that day. Or what Dawson told him.

    But if Dawson keeps insisting that he did not game the system, I would like him to please specifically state what Paul Walker asked him on that day, and what Dawson in turn told him.

    edit: formatting.
    « Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 09:00:57 am by Triceratops »

    Offline Redgum

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    Mark Dawson claims, and The Guardian seems to agree, that he did not break the rules in buying his own books for a "virtual book signing."

    Even if he had a virtual book signing, which in this case I'm not sure is exactly what happened, he should still have bought those books from his publisher, not retail. He broke the rules and he knew he was breaking them.

    Offline Becca Mills

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    FYI, at the request of the copyright holder (SPF), I've removed extensive quotations from The Self-Publishing Show podcast from three posts in this thread, as well as from a fourth post that quoted one of the edited posts.

    As I noted in my editing notes, requests from copyright holders for removal of material from the site put moderators in the position of having to judge fair use. We do our non-lawyer best to handle those decisions. In this case, the three posts basically reproduced the transcripts, rather than critiquing or commenting on the material (one of the criteria on which fair use hinges). Reproducing extensive amounts of material verbatim simply for the sake of members' convenience doesn't fall under fair use, so I thought the copyright holder's request had merit and took the material down. (NB: I have *not* removed podcast quotations from a fifth post that subjects those quotations to significant critique -- to my mind, that falls squarely under fair use.)

    If you think we've made the wrong call on this or any other such issue, please push your concerns up the pay-scale to our VerticalScope (company that own KBoards) liaison, Philip, who can be PM'd at vsAdmin.

    The transcripts reproduced in the three posts are all available on the Self-Publishing Show site. My editing note on each post contains a specific link.



    ETA point of correction: Self-Publishing Formula is the copyright holder for the podcast, not Mark Dawson himself. I've changed my post above accordingly. Apologies for the error.
    « Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:30:03 pm by Becca Mills »

    Welcome! :)
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    Offline markpauloleksiw

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    One would have thought a certain author would be busy licking all those stamps and putting books in envelopes for all those overseas buyers...instead of reading boards.... :P

    Offline Triceratops

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    FYI, at the request of the copyright holder (SPF), I've removed extensive quotations from The Self-Publishing Show podcast from three posts in this thread, as well as from a fourth post that quoted one of the edited posts.

    As I noted in my editing notes, requests from copyright holders for removal of material from the site put moderators in the position of having to judge fair use. We do our non-lawyer best to handle those decisions. In this case, the three posts basically reproduced the transcripts, rather than critiquing or commenting on the material (one of the criteria on which fair use hinges). Reproducing extensive amounts of material verbatim simply for the sake of members' convenience doesn't fall under fair use, so I thought the copyright holder's request had merit and took the material down. (NB: I have *not* removed podcast quotations from a fifth post that subjects those quotations to significant critique -- to my mind, that falls squarely under fair use.)

    If you think we've made the wrong call on this or any other such issue, please push your concerns up the pay-scale to our VerticalScope (company that own KBoards) liaison, Philip, who can be PM'd at vsAdmin.

    The transcripts reproduced in the three posts are all available on the Self-Publishing Show site. My editing note on each post contains a specific link.


    ETA point of correction: Self-Publishing Formula is the copyright holder for the podcast, not Mark Dawson himself. I've changed my post above accordingly. Apologies for the error.

    Hello Mark! Yes, I know you're reading this. How proud you must be, sending Cease And Desist notices to a little self-publishing bulletin board on the net. I suspect your takedown demand was pure bluster, since as you know I was very careful to state on each transcript that the SPF show is owned and run by yourself, and I also quoted your every word and pause to the letter. Nothing added, nothing removed. Still, I expect what really got under your skin was my very clear and correct argument, a few posts up, that you gamed the system. So, since you can't quash free speech, especially where facts are involved, you did the next best thing and sent a Cease And Desist on the transcript copyright. Well done. I hope you realize that by doing that, you are acknowledging that there is something here on this thread that you don't like? It probably was not your best move, public-relations wise, but then given your behavior on Twitter recently, your own PR isn't your strong skill.

    Becca, sorry for the hassle. If Mark chooses to escalate this further and demands more edits and/or takedowns, including and especially my post above that begins "Mark Dawson claims, and The Guardian seems to agree", then I will indeed petition Verticalscope the owner of this little bulletin board, as well as petition journalists in the UK and elsewhere to come take a look and also have a listen to me. I don't mind discarding my anonymity, and one of the few, the very few, advantages about being not rich like myself is that as Dylan said, when you ain't got nothing you got nothing to lose. So if Mark cares to sue me in court, I am more than happy to risk losing my treadmill and my china.

    I have made a fact-based argument using public evidence about how Mark, in my opinion, gamed the system with his purchase of 400 of his own hardbacks to make the Sunday Times Top Ten Bestseller List. If Mark would like to dispute that argument publicly, I would be happy to listen.

    One would have thought a certain author would be busy licking all those stamps and putting books in envelopes for all those overseas buyers...instead of reading boards.... :P

    Quite. Mark, we didn't create this situation, you did. Aren't you busy enough?



    Edited: a few words have been removed. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
    « Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:39:39 pm by Becca Mills »

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    I don't mind discarding my anonymity, and one of the few, the very few, advantages about being not rich like myself is that as Dylan said, when you ain't got nothing you got nothing to lose. So if Mark cares to sue me in court, I am more than happy to risk losing my treadmill and my china.

    One of the things that has always bothered me about Mark as a very public publishing individual has been certain behavior he displays when someone disagrees with him. The twitter demand for an apology was terrible, especially since he was not innocent.



    Edited to removed several sentences that either got off topic or seemed to break our WHOA rule. "WHOA" stands for "What Happens on Amazon [Stays on Amazon]." It means we don't want drama imported from other sites, preferring to stick with our own homegrown drama, thank you very much. ("Amazon" in this case = the old Amazon forums, which were notoriously contentious, but the rule goes for all outside sites.) Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
    « Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:46:31 pm by Becca Mills »

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