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And The Hand Finally Closes Around Our Throat

20K views 220 replies 54 participants last post by  Corvid 
#1 ·
I noticed something odd about the release of my most recent book Bloodwing. So I went to investigate. If you'll recall my current plan relies on rapid releases, because that's the supposed key to wealth and riches on Jeff's yellow brick road of opportunity and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps. Well, my plan lasted a total of sixteen days. In that time I published about 57,000 words of new fiction. Fortunately I was smart enough to hold on to my rights. I don't trust anyone anymore and I'm about to explain why.

Here's my first book, The Praetorian Imperative, published July 20th, on the 51st anniversary of the Apollo Moon landing:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=B08DDFXT6R&ref=nb_sb_noss

I use this URL for a very specific purpose. This is the URL we normally use to check and see if our books are in the right categories. Over there on the left are the dropdowns for each store. Here's the link for Bloodwing

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=B08F6MQ473&ref=nb_sb_noss

Now then, when you compare these two pages, you will rapidly discover a problem. (I did this logged out to prevent any shenanigans). When you examine the drop down for "Kindle Store" you'll find that the second book appears in various browse categories. Meanwhile the first book (which has identical keywords) appears in none.

Funny how this automated system can produce two totally different sets of results for two books (with identical metadata that are even in the same SERIES) that are right next to each other in my bibliography, isn't it? If my book isn't in any browse categories, then it won't get a sales rank, now will it?

You'll then find the second book (published three days ago) is absent from either new releases list, while the first book (published sixteen days ago) is on page nine of the 30-day list.

This isn't the first time I've discovered this. During my last investigation, it turned out books wouldn't appear on the new releases list until they've had at least one sale and have a sales rank. This, of course, creates the old "keep the poor people in their place" paradox: you can't be on the list until your book sells, your book won't sell because it's not on the list.

If you will go back and re-examine the links in the URL for the second book Bloodwing, you'll see that the page insists it also appears on the 30-day and 90-day lists. Except it doesn't, despite the fact it was published 72 hours ago. At least it doesn't appear before its series mate, which went live sixteen days ago. I took the liberty of looking up the "hot 100 new releases" lists in all SEVEN browse categories. Only the first book appeared at #70 on the list for two-hour reads. Neither book appeared anywhere else.

This is the 30-day military science fiction new releases list:

https://www.amazon.com/s?i=digital-text&bbn=158591011&rh=n%3A133140011%2Cn%3A154606011%2Cn%3A668010011%2Cn%3A158591011%2Cn%3A6157856011%2Cp_n_date%3A1249100011&dc&fst=as%3Aoff&qid=1596653602&rnid=158591011&ref=sr_nr_n_16

The #4 book on the list is called Direct Fire. Must be one hell of a book too. 55 5-star ratings. Top 1000 in the store. Only problem is it was published 15 days ago. The book right after it Forgotten Empire, in the number five slot, was published 27 days ago.

Both are in Kindle Unlimited too but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (God knows nobody on this site is bashful) but this accounts for the very last avenue any author had on Amazon for organic visibility, absent some wild-ass random search result. If there is no organic visibility on Amazon, then it makes no difference at all how fast books are released, which means no matter what an author does, or how hard they work, they will get no sales on Amazon unless they bring their own readers. Amazon is not going to provide you with even one opportunity to put your book somewhere it might be seen unless you drop some cash on the table, even if you write two books a month.

In other words, you can't just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Getting favored treatment is mandatory. You cannot earn it. You must be chosen.

The other thing we can conclude from all of this is there are criteria for appearing on the "new releases" list that have nothing to do with whether your book is a new release. Actual new releases are locked out until those criteria are met (we have no official word on what those are) while the clock runs. Authors are left to guess, and what better use of an author's time than to speculate and experiment with "solve a puzzle, win a prize" on a site they don't control? It reminds me of people who believed there was such a thing as SEO while they fretted day and night trying to untangle the mixed signals they got from Google's search results. Then once they figured out how to get their sites visible, Google changed the rules and locked them all out again. These people were invited to believe that deplatforming is new. It isn't. De-platforming is something these sites have been perfecting ever since they put their plans in motion to centralize control and lock the people who built the Internet out. Yes, I sound like Jerry Maguire. You'll recall Jerry Maguire won.

Now I've sent an e-mail to KDP to inquire about this, and I'm sure I will get a very polite non-response. The bottom line here is that publishing a book and getting it in front of a buying audience has become a video game. It's us against Amazon, with our interlocutor doing everything in its trillion-dollar power to keep our books from getting to readers. Amazon wants exclusive rights. They want control over our pricing. They want to slap a $0.00 price on our book and whore it out for pennies while we send hundreds and thousands of fresh new customers to their site night and day. What do we get in exchange for all this? Practically nothing. Amazon takes what they like and then sits on our money for two months.

I'm not an elite. I'm not entitled to visibility or the privileges of being chosen. Neither of my books have sold at all, at least on Amazon. Did Amazon notify my "followers" (lol) I had two new books out? Apparently not. If you go to my book's pages you'll find Amazon isn't advertising anything on those pages. They're completely bare. See if you can guess why? Why would you advertise on a page where you know there will never be any traffic?

BY THE WAY:

I still have the stats from the last time I was stupid enough to spend money on AMS ads. I know exactly how many people visited the Amazon page for Dawnsong: The Last Skyblade over a four month period. You would be shocked to know how few people actually showed up on a site with millions and billions of customers.

I also now know with certainty why my LitRPG, non-fiction, romance and fantasy books didn't sell. Amazon just turned them off because I'm a military science fiction author. The robot doesn't understand anything else, so those hundreds of thousands of words I've written in other genres? Eh, toss 'em. The robot doesn't care about your hard work. All that matters is what number is in the database column labeled "morlock author type."

Amazon has decided that I shouldn't have a writing career. They have decided they are not interested in selling my books (unless I'm innovative enough to just hand them 30% of my gross in exchange for nothing) I was kicked out of a promising technology career in my mid-30s. I was kicked out and left to the streets when my uncle and felon grandmother stole my mother's house from me. Now I'm being kicked out of being an author after nine years of hard work. If I want a writing career, I'm going to have to build it myself, because when I try to work with others, I get lied to and cheated.

If you have a writing career in mind, and you are relying on Amazon, there are some things you should know: 1) You have a job 2) Your job is to send traffic to Amazon 3) You may receive an optional paycheck 4) You are subject to termination with or without cause 5) You work for a robot.

You are part of the new breed of corporate dream employee. You agree to occasional paychecks or no paychecks. You require no benefits or job security. You can be thrown out on the sidewalk on a whim. Your elite corporate paymaster controls the money and all your property. You will have a four-inch-wide leather strap tightly cinched around your neck before you are hauled up on the ever-accelerating treadmill to run for your life. When you collapse from exhaustion or die you'll be thrown in the trash to make room for the next slave.

I've written for Amazon for nine years and sold thousands of books. I still can't afford to go to the dentist.

Now go to this page:

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/

See right there under the video where it says "reach millions of readers on Amazon?" (This page hasn't changed at all since I signed up for KDP in 2011)

What they fail to mention is you are responsible for the millions of readers.

Amazon isn't getting another minute of my time.
 
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#3 ·
I have a new quote for Jeff. He's welcome to use it:

"You're a [poopy] writer and I'm willing to spend a trillion dollars to prove it."

And now I will leave you all with a musical interlude and retire to my bookstore, where my books are actually visible, I have more traffic than my Amazon pages and I'm in control of the new releases list and the pricing:

 
#4 ·
BREAKING NEWS: This just in to the Shane Lochlann Black newsroom. Directly from KDP Support:

We've confirmed that your book is not eligible for the New Release badge to display in search results/on the detail page.

There are multiple factors that determine this eligibility, most importantly the book's release date.

We run the badge generation algorithm hourly to ensure an ASIN continues to meet the eligibility criteria.

If your future books are eligible, we'll display the New Release badge at that time.

Thanks for your understanding.
IMPORTANT POINT: Both of my new books' category pages insist they are listed on both the 30-day and 90-day new releases lists.

And that's a wrap. I'm pulling my remaining titles from KDP Select.

P.S. Lotta reads of this thread. I notice the Bubclub and the usual suspects are no longer popping up to defend Amazon. Perhaps times have changed, eh? Just remember, kids: the bells toll for thee. Good luck.

/turns off the lights
 
#6 ·
This kind of thing is why I don't think exclusivity is a great idea for most authors. Maybe we should be thinking of KU as something to be done occasionally or as a launch strategy before going wide (as some already recommend) rather than as a long-term plan.

I have a book up on Amazon. It's one that I've wavered on whether it's more of an adult book or a YA book. After it was published, I asked Amazon to put it in a few YA subcats. They did so. Then I decided it's more of an adult novel and asked them to move it into adult categories instead (which I found by navigating the categories on their site). I was told that those categories don't exist. Given that I only found them by navigating to them, I gave up rather than trying to explain to Amazon what their own store says.

I do wonder, though, if the fact that your books are novellas instead of novels might have anything to do with what you're seeing. Maybe so, maybe not, but it wouldn't surprise me if Amazon wants to push novels over novellas, since more readers are interested in them.
 
#8 ·
I looked at the two links and the both show the same categories as far as I can tell. So I don't understand the problem.

The other form of organic discovery all books get is Search. YMMV of course because ranking appears based on sales too.

The main driver has always been alsobots which Amazon continues to deemphasize, but that's also sales related--rich get richer.

So all roads do kind of lead back to bringing your own traffic in some form at the start. Their discoverability engine kicks in a little later. This is why there's so much talk about list-building and promo. It's no secret that's the "secret".
 
#9 ·
Maybe I misunderstood, but it reads to me like you might have a misunderstanding about the new release lists. They don't show the latest new releases based on which one was the most recent release. They are a bestseller list, just like the regular bestseller list, but limited to the books that are pre-orders or released in the last 30 days. So if the bestselling book out of all the new releases in that category released 29 days ago, then it will show up at the top. A new release that released yesterday and has no sales will not show up at all. (Since you need one sale to appear on the lists--and then of course it's category dependent as to where on the list you will show and how many sales are needed to make it into the top 100.) That is normal.

It is also normal for the first level of kdp support to not understand questions put to them and give generic answers. The fact that they're talking about a badge in their reply to you reads to me like they thought you were asking about the #1 New Release badge that is given to the top new release in each category. To be eligible for that, a book has to be both a new release and the top-selling new release in that category.
 
#10 ·
I have no idea what you mean by "Bubclub" except it seems to me that you think I am part of it. So I will respond.

I am not sure what you thought to prove with this experiment. Since you hate Amazon so much (I do, too, so we're in agreement), why spend all that time to prove.... that they conspire against new writers? Oh wait, you're not new. So what?

You wrote a series of novellas to prove that Amazon discriminates against you and in favour of people at the top of the SF charts, who write a chunky book a month and have done this for years, *and* they have a large following because they write books that their audience loves, *and* they have spent years building that audience in KU?

I mean--seriously? You "blow in" without anything that remotely resembles success of the likes that those people have had (not me either, by the way), anything remotely like their audience, with a bunch of novellas, and then blame Amazon? Or the "bubclub"? Whoever they are?

"Bubclub" members, like people who work on their lists, audiences, and write chunky books, are not responding because they're tired of this attitude. I don't know why I'm responding, but I took a break from recording my own audio, because I'm hungry and my stomach starts making ridiculous noises. Audio is doing very well for me right now. Like four-figures-a-month in the bank kind of well. Why? Because I worked at it. Long, chunky books that cannot be whipped up (or recorded) in a day or two. It's hard work.

And this morning I scheduled some emails to lists I've spent years building up.Pooh-pooh that if you want, but don't turn around and go blaming your disappointment on Amazon. I sell poorly on Amazon and in the US. Amazon US is 21% of my sales.

My latest release went live a month and a half ago. At this point, it's probably sitting somewhere in the mid-hundreds. But I had a few hundred preorders, and I have a hundred preorders for the next book, which releases in May next year. The series continues to give me a good income. Eleven books, all at $5.99. That's not just Amazon, but everywhere.

I am not a bestseller on Amazon US. I pay my bills and those of my family. My books cannot be found anywhere *near* those charts.

Here are a few things I'd suggest:

- QUIT worrying about Amazon US. Rank-chasing is ridiculous. It does not equate money in the bank.
- Put your books wide
- Write longer books
- Build your audience and stick with doing this
 
#11 ·
Maybe I misunderstood, but it reads to me like you might have a misunderstanding about the new release lists.
I did and it was confirmed by KDP. It's a best-seller list limited to books released within a certain time period. There is no point in publishing on Amazon at all unless you can buy readers. This was confirmed by Amazon itself this morning.
 
#12 ·
I am not sure what you thought to prove with this experiment.
I'm just trying to make my way in the universe. But I've proven there's no such thing as just writing books and organically building a readership on Amazon. It cannot be done. I defy anyone to prove otherwise. If you accept that challenge, then you must demonstrate to these fine people the exact mechanism by which your book becomes visible to readers without a mailing list, an established readership or advertising.

The debate is over.
 
#13 ·
ShawnaReads said:
...

I have a book up on Amazon. It's one that I've wavered on whether it's more of an adult book or a YA book. After it was published, I asked Amazon to put it in a few YA subcats. They did so. Then I decided it's more of an adult novel and asked them to move it into adult categories instead (which I found by navigating the categories on their site). I was told that those categories don't exist. Given that I only found them by navigating to them, I gave up rather than trying to explain to Amazon what their own store says.

...
I get this.

Other than that, I'm confused.
 
#14 ·
Shane Lochlann Black said:
I'm just trying to make my way in the universe. But I've proven there's no such thing as just writing books and organically building a readership on Amazon. It cannot be done. I defy anyone to prove otherwise. If you accept that challenge, then you must demonstrate to these fine people the exact mechanism by which your book becomes visible to readers without a mailing list, an established readership or advertising.

The debate is over.
I mean... I'm sorry you're having such a shit time with Amazon, but.. you're experiences don't mean everyone else experiences the same thing.

My debut novel, with zero previous readership made just under $8000 its first month of publication (paid in Canadian, so that's something to keep in mind with our crap dollar).

My second novel went up for pre-order and had 1600 pre-orders by its release, at $2.99. I dropped the ball from there, but that's an entirely different post to share.

My 'advertising' platform? I had a not even finished website, a mailing list that gained all organic readers from these books, and I posted a couple of times a week in one voracious FB reader group with book teasers, etc.

It was (and still is) a hungry reader genre, surprisingly, and the books were written to market.

I'm not posting this to start a fight or some large debate. I'm just hoping that other people first discovering indie publishing and kboards doesn't see just the OP's post and think it's all doom and gloom.
 
#17 ·
I've removed a post. Please be civil, folks.
 
#18 ·
>I'm pulling my remaining titles from KDP Select.

I don't understand why anyone would put books in Select except as a 90-day experiment with the renewal box not checked.
 
#19 ·
Amanda M. Lee said:
Only preorders are getting regular new release alerts right now. I haven't had a new release alert sent since February.
Anyone have any idea why this is? I also didn't have a new relase emails go out with my latest release - it doesn't make any sense to me, as why the heck would readers have followed you if not to be informed when you put out something new? I'm still getting oodles of useless Amazon emails hawking things to me I have absolutely no interest in . . . why cut back on the emails that are guaranteed to result in sales?
 
#20 ·
Rachel Anne said:
I mean... I'm sorry you're having such a [crap] time with Amazon, but.. you're experiences don't mean everyone else experiences the same thing.

My debut novel, with zero previous readership made just under $8000 its first month of publication (paid in Canadian, so that's something to keep in mind with our crap dollar).

My second novel went up for pre-order and had 1600 pre-orders by its release, at $2.99. I dropped the ball from there, but that's an entirely different post to share.

My 'advertising' platform? I had a not even finished website, a mailing list that gained all organic readers from these books, and I posted a couple of times a week in one voracious FB reader group with book teasers, etc.

It was (and still is) a hungry reader genre, surprisingly, and the books were written to market.

I'm not posting this to start a fight or some large debate. I'm just hoping that other people first discovering indie publishing and kboards doesn't see just the OP's post and think it's all doom and gloom.
I don't make as much as you, but there are a crop of readers who actually seek my books out, and I've done less than you to find them, actually, aside from post them and leave notices on the Zon's author's page. Organic does happen. Can many live off of it? Doubtful. I don't. But then, I"m not trying to live off of it. Either way, with indie publishing, it's always YMMV.

I can understand Shane's frustrations. He's trying all the tricks that are said to pay off with visibility and all that. Including advertising and rapid release. Apparently there is more to the formula... Luck, or the right algorithm comes your way, perhaps. Or a long past history of bestsellers? I don't know.

I'm still trying to unpack his first post but I get the jist of it: it's not an easy thing to even get visibility at first release. Of course, the massive numbers of books released every day probably do not help, unless you're one of those rare writers of some odd genre where a new release may get seen, like maybe something in Esperanto.
 
#21 ·
Organic visibility worked pretty spectacularly for me eight years ago. I did two ads for a free run for about $10. No mailing list and no Facebook signups. That was eons ago, but I know several other people whose first books caught on organically much more recently. You need to have a book lots of readers recommend once they do read it. Organic visibility is mostly word of mouth. I still get it—new readers who stumble upon my stuff because somebody tells them or the cover and title are hooky.

Saying you did not get it does not mean it does not exist. It just says it did not happen for you. Nobody can say exactly how it works or why their books managed to catch that wave. We do not really know, though we see that book mentioned all over in reader groups. That is the main thing. Mostly it is genre, title, series title, hook, cover, blurb—and then the book. And then the ending. And then another book and another.

Personally I have been in Select with my indie books most of the time. I also have trad books, but they too are Amazon only. And audiobooks which I do not do anything for other than let my readers know. I get a great many first time readers in audio, which is not as crowded as Kindle. (I am in an extremely crowded genre.)
 
#23 ·
Isn't this why we've been building mailing lists for years?
Yes it is. When you finally shake off all the magic fairy dust and take a hard, realistic look at the world as it is, you will understand what gives a book visibility: Mailing list, established readership and ads. Without visibility, your book will not sell no matter how talented you are and no matter how much you spent on your cover.

"Gee, I hope people run into the hinterlands waving my book in the air" is not a business plan.

And now for my last trick, I will once and for all put a stake through the heart of the organic sales myth:

If it were possible to achieve sustainable sales growth without mailing lists or advertising, none of the top-selling authors on this board would be spending money on them. Yet every single one of them does.

Case closed.
 
#25 ·
AlecHutson said:
Anyone have any idea why this is? I also didn't have a new relase emails go out with my latest release - it doesn't make any sense to me, as why the heck would readers have followed you if not to be informed when you put out something new? I'm still getting oodles of useless Amazon emails hawking things to me I have absolutely no interest in . . . why cut back on the emails that are guaranteed to result in sales?
The rep I communicate with indicated that the releases were stopped during Covid. She said she believed they had started again. I told her that wasn't the case. She seemed surprised. I have no idea why they're not doing the releases and she didn't seem to either, which is normal.
 
#26 ·
Shane Lochlann Black said:
Yes it is. When you finally shake off all the magic fairy dust and take a hard, realistic look at the world as it is, you will understand what gives a book visibility: Mailing list, established readership and ads. Without visibility, your book will not sell no matter how talented you are and no matter how much you spent on your cover.

"Gee, I hope people run into the hinterlands waving my book in the air" is not a business plan.

And now for my last trick, I will once and for all put a stake through the heart of the organic sales myth:

If it were possible to achieve sustainable sales growth without mailing lists or advertising, none of the top-selling authors on this board would be spending money on them. Yet every single one of them does.

Case closed.
Here's the thing that you either can't or won't grasp: There are too many books published each and every day to give everybody this visibility you seem to think you're owed. How would they conceivably manage that? Seriously.
So, yes, there are best-sellers lists. There is advertising. There are people who have mailing lists. We use all of those things because we want to sell books.
I know plenty of people doing this full time. I don't know anybody giving away their profit for advertising because the whole point of advertising is to pay to make more money. So, therefore, you wouldn't make money if you didn't advertise.
You're very bitter and combative. As long as you give in to those emotions you won't ever get what you want.
You don't have to start by spending thousands of dollars advertising. Most people start small and then start scaling. You say you're good at advertising and have no problem making a profit doing it, so why not keep doing it and build on it? That seems like the smart way to go to me.
 
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