St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
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Offline Koi

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St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
« on: December 01, 2020, 02:39:51 pm »
So, this series is really popular around this board (and everywhere).  I've gotten hooked, too.  But before I read book 5, I want to know, from those who have gone before, if the author violates her own plot as egregiously as she did between book 3 and book 4.    Or, did I miss something?
 in
In book three, our protagonist kills someone in self defense, in a vivid many paged scene- and in book 4, that person has been named as killed by someone else entirely.  The confessed killer in book 3 is utterly set aside, for hints that all those murders are now, in book 4, part of someone else's grand plot.   

I can get past, maybe, one such enormous, jangling with bells on hitch.   But there are a lot of threads dangling in the series by now, and if they're going to remain true to their own logic, that's good.  If they're going to resolve and then be utterly ignored, I don't think I can take it.

I didn't want to give much away to anyone that hasn't read them yet, so I was maybe too circumspect in describing the problems.  They're not as simple as someone's dress color at the ball changing between books, same ball.  Its HUGE.  How'd you all accept it and keep going?  Are there more of these violations?
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    Offline Ann in Arlington

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #1 on: December 01, 2020, 03:29:50 pm »
    I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember I've enjoyed all the books. There was nothing that was such a giant inconsistency that it caught my attention. That said, the better written the book and the better the story, the more I am likely to not notice such things or not be bothered if I do.

    I was a little icked out by the side plot involving him and the actress after revelations about his father, but that's more or less resolved via later revelations about his mother. And he ultimately ends up with the right person, romantically speaking.
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    Offline Linjeakel

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #2 on: December 02, 2020, 10:21:09 am »
    I honestly can't remember - perhaps I didn't read those two books close enough together to notice any inconsistencies.

    The plots are pretty involved and when you're reading any number of other books in between it's easy to overlook that sort of thing. I certainly haven't noticed anything that made me feel like I didn't want to keep reading the following books. As Ann says, sometimes situations involving the wider arc of the story take more than one book to resolve themselves.
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    Linda

    Offline Koi

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #3 on: December 02, 2020, 01:18:24 pm »
    I think I’m in a very minority of readers bothered by it, though it’s much bigger than an inconsistency. Who killed whom, right before our eyes, so to speak... was changed, and so was the reason for the whole book.  But off the cuff- not as a plot twist.

    I’d wondered if anyone besides myself was taken aback. Felt like I’d had a wave of dementia or something!
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    Offline Maura

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #4 on: December 03, 2020, 06:22:09 pm »
    Would you mind giving the name of the character killed? I have all those books, have reread them, and never noticed such a thing.
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    Offline Koi

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #5 on: December 04, 2020, 10:55:55 am »
    Took my kindle a while to index The  two books. I’ve had a few books stay stuck lately, in indexing. Not something that’s been a problem in years. Wonder why, now?  Anyway....

    SPOILERS and I don’t know how to black out the lines:




    Book three, Why Mermaids Sing, chapter 61 is the fight scene. Pg 255, maybe halfway down, or location 3410,  is where Lord Stanton is killed. Pg. 270, start of chapter 65, location 3598, Sebastian tells Sir Henry where the bodies are, from the scene in chapter 61. Pg. 276, at the end, Jarvis ruminates a bit, how to turn the situation (of the whole book) to his advantage. 

    Book four, Where Serpents Sleep,  sees Lord Stanton mentioned in a list of names, as killed differently, different reason and killer.  End of pg. 324 is the list of names, including Stanton. Go back one page, and the same names have been listed, all part of a list of folks killed by one person, in a particular way.

    So, revisiting the books, a few names on the dead list of book 4, were alive at the end of book 3.  Their deaths offscreen as it were, certainly can be part of a new plot, ruminated on  and hinted at, end of book 3.  I was relieved that untangling this for this post left a thread of plot whole. That makes Lord Stanton caught up in the name list more of a faux pas than an entire plot overthrow of who dunnit and why.   It is irritating Stanton’s name keeps coming up though, on the list of deaths, book 4.  4 times, by a basic search of the book.
    « Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 11:04:08 am by Koi »
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    Offline Linjeakel

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #6 on: December 04, 2020, 11:39:43 am »
    Spoilers ahead!!

    Dominic Stanton, along with several others is killed on the orders of Lord Jarvis (I vaguely remember it as being to do with something their fathers had been involved in??) and it is while investigating these murders in Why Mermaids Sing that Sebastian ends up killing Dominic's father, Lord Stanton.

    The Stanton who is referred to in the conversation between Gibson and Sebastian in Book 4 Where Serpents Sleep is therefore the son, Dominic, who along with several other young men was killed in a particular way, and not the father who was killed by Sebastian.
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    Linda

    Offline crebel

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #7 on: December 04, 2020, 12:56:45 pm »
    Quote from: Linjeakel on December 04, 2020, 11:39:43 am
    Spoilers ahead!!

    Dominic Stanton, along with several others is killed on the orders of Lord Jarvis (I vaguely remember it as being to do with something their fathers had been involved in??) and it is while investigating these murders in Why Mermaids Sing that Sebastian ends up killing Dominic's father, Lord Stanton.

    The Stanton who is referred to in the conversation between Gibson and Sebastian in Book 4 Where Serpents Sleep is therefore the son, Dominic, who along with several other young men was killed in a particular way, and not the father who was killed by Sebastian.


    ^^What she said.  I went back and skimmed through both books because I couldn't imagine missing such a huge plot hole when I originally read them back to back. I can understand why it seemed convoluted, though!
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    Offline Koi

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 01:19:00 pm »
    Since I want to make sure I have this all in my head before I continue in the series....

    Dominic is killed in book 3, by opium being given, his throat slit, and various mutilations of his corpse, by the bereaved Dr who's son was cannibalized on the ship.  He goes around killing all the sons of the men on that ship.  He confesses.  The father, Lord Stanton, is killed by Sebastian in the fight scene of book 3.   In book 4-  Stanton, be it father or son, is killed by Jarvis' hitman, by having his neck broken.

    Either way you explain it, the killer has been changed between the two books. 

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    Offline Linjeakel

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #9 on: December 04, 2020, 05:28:14 pm »
    Perhaps I'm not remembering it correctly then, but I honestly can't recall it in any further detail.

    I'd suggest you go straight to the source and ask the author, either on Goodreads or her own website - after all she's the only one who can give you a definitive answer.

    Speaking for myself, I'm not too concerned about a possible plot hole - if that's what it is (and frankly, I'd be surprised if it was) - particularly one that's unlikely to have repercussions in the books I have yet to read. YMMV.
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    Linda

    Offline Koi

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #10 on: December 04, 2020, 05:55:51 pm »
    Well, my concern was to find out if plot holes are a recurring problem.  Doesn’t sound like they are, and this one is smaller than it seemed, at first. I’m relieved, because I’m enjoying them so much. I don’t see anyone hopping on here to say, yes, they’ve seen more.  I think that’s good news!
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    Offline Andra

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #11 on: December 11, 2020, 01:58:55 pm »
    I have not read the entire series back to back.  There was always a good bit of time between the books because of the prices.  But now you have made me curious and I am starting a re-read.  I am ready to start book 3 and I will be watching for the plot devices mentioned.
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    Offline Koi

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    Re: St Cyr book 3 and 4 plot inconsitancy
    « Reply #12 on: December 11, 2020, 06:29:23 pm »
    It’ll be fun to see what conclusion you come to. After wearing out the search function on my Oasis, I’m sure it’s a mistake to name him in book 4 in the list. And I figured out the other thing I thought was a change of whodunnit. I can live with it now... and book 5 is fabulous so far!
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