Author Topic: Should I get a dog? I did.  (Read 73765 times)  

Offline Amyshojai

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Re: Should I get a dog?
« Reply #150 on: May 29, 2011, 05:10:37 pm »
Karen Pryor and Gary Wilkes virtually invented clicker training for dogs.  ;D They're the wizards. Of course there are lots of other great books, too. If you want the best in dog training (or other doggy) books, to got DogWise.com.

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    Offline Jane917

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #151 on: May 29, 2011, 06:05:03 pm »
    Karen Pryor and Gary Wilkes virtually invented clicker training for dogs.  ;D They're the wizards. Of course there are lots of other great books, too. If you want the best in dog training (or other doggy) books, to got DogWise.com.

    Hey, DogWise is in my town!
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #152 on: May 29, 2011, 06:21:06 pm »
    Thanks.  Dogwise led me to Peggy Tillman's book "Clicking With Your Dog: Step-By-Step In Pictures".  I ordered it from Amazon.  Reviews there, in particular, look good.
     
    My bro beagle (1954-1966).  I still miss him big time.
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #153 on: June 03, 2011, 03:18:16 pm »
    Well, that soured.  We "didn't fit [each other's] criteria".  The breeder would not communicate.  He said he doesn't check e-mail / doesn't e-mail.  When I'd get him on the phone, he was too busy to talk.  "I'll call you on  . . . ."  And then he didn't call.  He did NOT communicate until I turned on my computer this morning and there was a lengthy e-mail from him.  I didn't fit his criteria.  He would not and will not in the future sell a puppy to me.  OK.

    So I found Brentwood Borders.  I've talked to and e-mailed with the breeder Kathy.  Third puppy down "blue and tan male" MAY be available.  She should know in a few days if he's taken or not.  If not, he's mine.  And if he is, Kathy knows another Border breeder in Michigan who has pups and will be passing through the Chicago area in 2 - 3 weeks.  Likely to get one of hers.  In any case, Kathy said, "We'll get you a pup."   :)
    « Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 03:20:24 pm by Sandpiper »
     
    My bro beagle (1954-1966).  I still miss him big time.
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    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #154 on: June 03, 2011, 03:31:17 pm »
    Whoa...well better you find out now! Sorry that happened. But I'm thrilled that my breeder (even after 4+ years!) still stays in touch with me, and asks about my Magical-boy. She just recently had one of her puppy buyers visit with the 7+ year old dog to visit before they moved away to N Dakota! A great breeder is a joy and wonderful support system so hope your puppy comes with one of those.  ;)

    Offline Tatiana

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #155 on: June 03, 2011, 03:35:29 pm »
    Whoa, I agree with Amy, it's better you find out now.  We're going back to the breeder of our current Scottie for our second one.  I spoke with them today.  They don't communicate via eMail and they state that on the website so all conversations are via phone, but they DO communicate willingly via phone.  We were very pleased with our first Scottie that we want to go back to the same breeder for our 2nd one.  Hopefully, we'll have one by the end of summer.
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #156 on: June 03, 2011, 04:51:52 pm »
    Whoa...well better you find out now! Sorry that happened. But I'm thrilled that my breeder (even after 4+ years!) still stays in touch with me, and asks about my Magical-boy. She just recently had one of her puppy buyers visit with the 7+ year old dog to visit before they moved away to N Dakota! A great breeder is a joy and wonderful support system so hope your puppy comes with one of those.  ;)

    Whoa, I agree with Amy, it's better you find out now.  We're going back to the breeder of our current Scottie for our second one.  I spoke with them today.  They don't communicate via eMail and they state that on the website so all conversations are via phone, but they DO communicate willingly via phone.  We were very pleased with our first Scottie that we want to go back to the same breeder for our 2nd one.  Hopefully, we'll have one by the end of summer.

    If I get Kathy's pup (Brentwood), I know she would want to stay in contact.  So would I.  (I picture sort of like an "open adoption".)  She wants to know who she is placing her pups with (selling to).

    I was getting worried about getting pup from first breeder.  If it happened, I think I'd be uncomfortable meeting him and talking with him after being so uncommunicative via phone and e-mail.  I'm not going to pester anyone, but I do want to be able to communicate. 
     
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    Offline MamaProfCrash

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #157 on: June 03, 2011, 05:40:34 pm »
    If he wasn't communicating how did he know you didn't fit his criterion for a puppy? It sounds to me like he found someone willing to pay more for the pup then you.

    Good luck with the new breeder.

    Offline Jane917

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #158 on: June 03, 2011, 06:04:57 pm »
    I am so sorry this is happening to you. However, it is very important to have a breeder that will work with you. I still have contact with Kona's breeder (he is 5) and Jack's breeder (he is 4). It is comforting to me that they still care about what happens to their puppies, even if they don't go to show homes.
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    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #159 on: June 03, 2011, 07:05:00 pm »
    We waited 2 years for our Magic. It was worth the wait. In the meantime we got to visit earlier litters and got to know Gil. I even profiled her as an example of an "ideal breeder" on my puppies.about.com site. *s* The good ones are great! the bad ones...well...we won't go there. Sounds like Kathy is a good one and worth the wait.

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #160 on: June 03, 2011, 07:45:02 pm »
    If he wasn't communicating how did he know you didn't fit his criterion for a puppy? It sounds to me like he found someone willing to pay more for the pup then you.

    Good luck with the new breeder.

    I had the same thought myself.  (I didn't think of the money end of it though.  But who knows?)  He was referred to me by the breeder I'd bought same breed pup from 40 years ago.  And that breeder referred me to him as good buyer.  I expect his pups were perfectly fine.  But when I tried two - three times to set up time to see pup once before taking it home, got nowhere with him.  Keep repeating myself -- any communication I tried went nowhere.  I talked to the one other breeder in that group of three.  Then she talked to him.  He didn't like what he heard from her that I said??  And so I did not fit his criteria.  The original go-between breeder is in the hospital.  Might have helped to talk to her.  But she is unavaliable.
    « Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 07:50:23 pm by Sandpiper »
     
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    Offline MichelleR

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #161 on: June 04, 2011, 03:48:46 am »
    That IS disappointing. Does this guy show or is he interested in having his dogs shown? Could be that he deemed the puppies of that quality and didn't want them going to a pet home any longer.
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #162 on: June 04, 2011, 06:36:03 am »
    This is what he said about himself in that last e-mail:

    "My wife and I are proud to have been the owner of the number one record holder and most decorated all breed group and best in show winning: Border Terrier, Gordon Setter, and Airedale Terrier in American Kennel Club, Inc. history.  Records are made and usually get broken; it is what competition is all about.  The best in show records that our dogs hold, have stood now for over ten years and may be broken some day but, it will obviously take a special dog.  So, not to carry on any longer about my knowledge about dogs, the records speak for themselves and are verifiable."

    So?  He just relates better (only?) to dogs than humans?  He also said, "After our several phone conversations . . . ."  I really don't remember several.  And any there were didn't amount to anything.  I am happy he's gone gone gone. 
     
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    Offline medicalhumor

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #163 on: June 04, 2011, 07:00:04 am »
    Adopt a dog that needs you just as much as you need hime!

    Get a dog.

    Mike Cyra

    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #164 on: June 05, 2011, 06:36:50 am »
    Hmnnn....perhaps he mistook you for somebody else? In any event, you've got other options.  ;D

    Offline N. Gemini Sasson

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #165 on: June 05, 2011, 12:42:41 pm »
    That IS disappointing. Does this guy show or is he interested in having his dogs shown? Could be that he deemed the puppies of that quality and didn't want them going to a pet home any longer.

    That was my guess, Michelle. Could also be that he misinterpreted something or made some assumptions, but at any rate, sounds like placing dogs in competitive situations is very important to him.

    As a longtime breeder (different breed), we've had many different experiences placing pups. With time, I learned the various situations and the kinds of owners with which our dogs fit best. I've actually had prospective owners get upset with me when I turned them away - and believe me, it's not easy to do because I understand everyone wants a dog they can love and be proud of - but sometimes they weren't right for concrete reasons and at other times my gut just told me, 'No.'  And every time I ever went against my intuition, it came back to bite me later on. Sometimes I even got those dogs back and had to re-home them.  :(

    On the flip side, I've communicated with possible owners that I just clicked with and who seemed the perfect candidate for our breed. Some had extensive experience with dogs; some didn't, but were committed to training and bonding with their dog. When it's really right, a breeder just knows.

    I think it's sad when a breeder's ego (by way of many titles owners can put on their dogs for them) is more important than the happiness of the dog and finding an owner who wants a dog that will be an important part of their life. But each breeder has their own criteria. And yes, you are SO much better to have figured this out now. The right puppy is out there waiting for you. It will come along when the time is right.
    « Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 12:45:20 pm by N. Gemini Sasson »


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    Offline Jane917

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #166 on: June 05, 2011, 01:06:32 pm »
    As a longtime breeder (different breed), we've had many different experiences placing pups. With time, I learned the various situations and the kinds of owners with which our dogs fit best. I've actually had prospective owners get upset with me when I turned them away - and believe me, it's not easy to do because I understand everyone wants a dog they can love and be proud of - but sometimes they weren't right for concrete reasons and at other times my gut just told me, 'No.'  And every time I ever went against my intuition, it came back to bite me later on. Sometimes I even got those dogs back and had to re-home them.  :(

    On the flip side, I've communicated with possible owners that I just clicked with and who seemed the perfect candidate for our breed. Some had extensive experience with dogs; some didn't, but were committed to training and bonding with their dog. When it's really right, a breeder just knows.

    You sound just like the type of breeder I look for when I am looking for a dog. I always am armed with lots of questions, but I expect the breeder to ask just as many questions of me, my family, and our purpose for wanting one of his/her dogs.
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    Offline StephenLivingston

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #167 on: June 05, 2011, 01:08:02 pm »
    Should a dog get you?

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #168 on: June 05, 2011, 02:17:06 pm »
    That IS disappointing. Does this guy show or is he interested in having his dogs shown? Could be that he deemed the puppies of that quality and didn't want them going to a pet home any longer.

    I don't really know about him.  We had agreement that I was buying a pup from him over about a ten - twelve week period.

    Kathy, the breeder who I hope I will get a pup from now, does say she would prefer placing pup with someone who is going to show.  She has someone interested now who would show.  But that placement isn't for sure yet.  Kathy said if it does not happen, the pup is mine.  (I have a hard time saying selling / buying pup.  That is what's occurring, but it still is hard to say that about a dog's life.)
     
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #169 on: June 05, 2011, 02:21:00 pm »
    Should a dog get you?

    I hope so.  I hope a dog would be happy to live with me.  Would feel loved and cared for.  Life could be full of fun, food, and sleep.   :)
     
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #170 on: June 05, 2011, 02:25:43 pm »
    As a longtime breeder (different breed), we've had many different experiences placing pups. With time, I learned the various situations and the kinds of owners with which our dogs fit best. I've actually had prospective owners get upset with me when I turned them away - and believe me, it's not easy to do because I understand everyone wants a dog they can love and be proud of - but sometimes they weren't right for concrete reasons and at other times my gut just told me, 'No.'  And every time I ever went against my intuition, it came back to bite me later on. Sometimes I even got those dogs back and had to re-home them.  :(

    On the flip side, I've communicated with possible owners that I just clicked with and who seemed the perfect candidate for our breed. Some had extensive experience with dogs; some didn't, but were committed to training and bonding with their dog. When it's really right, a breeder just knows.

    I think it's sad when a breeder's ego (by way of many titles owners can put on their dogs for them) is more important than the happiness of the dog and finding an owner who wants a dog that will be an important part of their life. But each breeder has their own criteria. And yes, you are SO much better to have figured this out now. The right puppy is out there waiting for you. It will come along when the time is right

    You sound just like the type of breeder I look for when I am looking for a dog. I always am armed with lots of questions, but I expect the breeder to ask just as many questions of me, my family, and our purpose for wanting one of his/her dogs.

    EXACTLY -- to both.  That very much seems to be Kathy of Brentwood Borders and probably Carol and Cheryl, Border breeders Kathy knows in Michigan.
     
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    Offline N. Gemini Sasson

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #171 on: June 05, 2011, 03:33:49 pm »
    You sound just like the type of breeder I look for when I am looking for a dog. I always am armed with lots of questions, but I expect the breeder to ask just as many questions of me, my family, and our purpose for wanting one of his/her dogs.

    Certainly. It's just as important for a breeder to know what's important to each potential owner and whether or not their dogs are a fit with that, as it is for the potential owner to understand what a breeder's priorities are in placing pups and even why they're breeding in the first place.

    Most of the time people will tell me right off what they're looking for and also a lot about themselves. If they don't, I shoot them a list of open-ended questions. Sometimes they might be perfectly nice people, but their needs and expectations simply don't jive with what my dogs are, or the breed in general.

    All that being said, pups from show lines can make fantastic companions. Many a Westminster champion sleeps on its owner's bed. And showing your dog (or trialing in obedience, agility, herding, field work, etc.) can be an incredible way to form a bond with your dog and meet new people.  But even in the best show-bred litters, not every pups needs to be kept intact and bred one day or even shown.

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    Should a dog get you?

    So true, Stephen. It's us who control the quality of their lives. Big responsibility. Big reward when you find that heart-dog.


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    Offline MichelleR

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #172 on: June 05, 2011, 09:00:40 pm »
    I don't really know about him.  We had agreement that I was buying a pup from him over about a ten - twelve week period.

    Oh, trust me, wasn't excusing him -- and I don't know for sure why he changed his mind. I was just speculating on the show thing. Breeders who show care about their reputation and (conformation) show dogs are basically being judged against the ideal of their breed and  as potential breeding stock. If a puppy looks extra promising, some breeders might want it to go to a show home, as opposed to neutered and "hidden" in a pet home. That's just tossing that out there, could be way, waaaaaay off, and it sounds like you're going to end up with a puppy soon anyhow.  :)
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    Offline MamaProfCrash

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #173 on: June 06, 2011, 05:01:18 am »
    I thought most litters had a pup or two that would not show well and that those were the dogs that went to pet homes.

    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #174 on: June 06, 2011, 05:41:10 am »
    Yep, ProfCrash, often there are pups that are not show prospects--but sometimes that can be hard to tell at an early age. Bigger dogs have larger litters, too so there may be more leeway there.

    My breeder used a temperament test (I've helped with the last few) to help predict puppy potential (as much as possible at that early age!) in order to better match prospective owners. A laid-back puppy might go best to a home with kids, while a more "driven" dog that tests well for Schutzhund potential is best placed with a more experienced handler. My breeder also offers a "kick back" for those dogs that end up getting hips/elbows evaluated and also for those that place titles on their dogs, because that all goes back as a reflection on the breeder. *shrug*

    N.Gemini, you sound like another one of those excellent breeders! And I agree that it works both ways--both parties need to feel comfortable about the placement. Re-homing later can be a chore, not to mention heartbreaking for all involved.

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