Author Topic: Should I get a dog? I did.  (Read 73761 times)  

Offline N. Gemini Sasson

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Re: Should I get a dog?
« Reply #175 on: June 06, 2011, 06:11:33 am »
I thought most litters had a pup or two that would not show well and that those were the dogs that went to pet homes.


Depends a lot on the litter... and the breeder. On paper, a potential breeding can look great. You find a male for your female who you hope complements her - has strengths that outweigh her faults. I've had litters of 8 where I felt lucky to get one very nice puppy, and I've also had litters of 8 where 4 or 5 were show quality. BUT, no dog is perfect and the genetics of dog breeding are far from an exact science. It's like dipping your hand in a jar full of multi-colored marbles and hoping you draw out all the red ones or all the blue ones.

Breeders try to stack the odds in their favor - and hopefully they're doing it with an eye on more than just conformation (breed type, structure), but are also equally weighing temperament, ability and health. Some of them are pickier than others as to what constitutes 'show quality' and what doesn't.

If a breeder is well known for producing show ring winners, they may have a waiting list for those pups. They may even prefer to hang onto 'show quality' pups and 'grow them out' rather than place them in pet homes. Others, if they have a full waiting list of pet homes, will place possible 'show quality' pups in companion or performance homes because finding a good home is more important to them than racking up another championship. But they can't let all their best pups get altered, or they won't have a future generation to continue on with. So it's not that they're being snooty and looking down on pet homes, but that they're looking down the road and trying to preserve and improve their breed.

Quote
Yep, ProfCrash, often there are pups that are not show prospects--but sometimes that can be hard to tell at an early age. Bigger dogs have larger litters, too so there may be more leeway there.

Yes, yes, definitely this.



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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #176 on: June 06, 2011, 07:04:35 am »
    If a breeder is well known for producing show ring winners, they may have a waiting list for those pups. They may even prefer to hang onto 'show quality' pups and 'grow them out' rather than place them in pet homes. Others, if they have a full waiting list of pet homes, will place possible 'show quality' pups in companion or performance homes because finding a good home is more important to them than racking up another championship. But they can't let all their best pups get altered, or they won't have a future generation to continue on with. So it's not that they're being snooty and looking down on pet homes, but that they're looking down the road and trying to preserve and improve their breed.

    Kathy said another consideration these days for the breeder is the economy.  Fewer possible placement homes today, show or pet, because not as many have the asking price for the pups.  So if a breeder finds what s/he believes would be a good home for the pup, may need to go with that as opposed to what the breeder would ideally prefer.

    That is what's happening now with Kathy.  She has her last pup on hold for possible show home which is what she would prefer.  But if that doesn't happen, I will get the pup.  He will be a pet / companion dog for me.  I will provide a good, safe home for him and a happy life.  We will be BFFs and have good times together.   :)
    « Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 07:06:07 am by Sandpiper »
     
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    Offline caseyf6

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #177 on: June 06, 2011, 09:12:43 am »
    I'm glad you have other options...buying a pup from a breeder who (sounds like he) is a jerk would be like adopting one from a shelter where you just didn't have a good feeling about it-- not worth it in the long run, sometimes.

    Here is my question:  I understand you've made your decision and I'm delighted for you.  But maybe you (Sandpiper) and Amy can answer this for me.  Why get purebred?  I understand wanting to make sure it's not from a puppy mill, but I really don't understand specifically paying for an animal who isn't a rescue.   It's not just cost to me, it's emotional.  There are so many rescues who need that bff-human.

    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #178 on: June 06, 2011, 09:29:46 am »
    Why get purebred?  I understand wanting to make sure it's not from a puppy mill, but I really don't understand specifically paying for an animal who isn't a rescue.   It's not just cost to me, it's emotional.  There are so many rescues who need that bff-human.

    I can't speak for Sandpiper, but for me--I adore German shepherds, love their look, the way they act, their train-ability, their versatility, the selfless devotion to one person/family . . . and yes, I could have gotten that from a rescue shepherd. But much of it would have been if-y.

    I work with owners of damaged pets/relationships in my real job as a certified animal behavior consultant. I did not need that added angst with my own fur-kid. By working with a reputable breeder who has a 20+ year track record of producing sound dogs, and placing them with specific families/owners (SAR, service dogs, therapy, performance and more) AND who willingly supports me answering questions--and vice versa *s* -- I got the dog of my dreams.

    He still was...and is...an incredible amount of work. But my first GSD boy (still my furry muse) developed HD, immune issues, and temperament (extreme shyness) problems. I needed a break. *s*

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #179 on: June 06, 2011, 09:37:11 am »
    YESSSSSSS!  I got an e-mail from Kathy.  She never heard from the other possible placement (buyer), so the pup IS mine.   :)   :)   :)  Going there this coming weekend.  Kathy wants to meet person before actually taking delivery of the pup.  Go over everything this weekend.  I can ask questions, questions, questions.  I can meet pup's mom and dad.  And leave deposit.  Pup would be ready to go weekend of June 18/19 or whenever I want.

    Here is my question:  I understand you've made your decision and I'm delighted for you.  But maybe you (Sandpiper) and Amy can answer this for me.  Why get purebred?  I understand wanting to make sure it's not from a puppy mill, but I really don't understand specifically paying for an animal who isn't a rescue.   It's not just cost to me, it's emotional.  There are so many rescues who need that bff-human.

    Getting a shelter dog (rescuing) is a wonderful thing.  So many many need homes.  All dogs deserve a good, loving home.  I had a Border Terrier 40 years ago, so I feel I "know" the breed and their personality more than other dogs in general.  (Although all dogs, like people, are individuals.)  The general personality of Border Terriers appeals to me very much.  They're considered to be smart dogs.  (Some breeds just aren't.  Or they're stubborn.)  Their coat / hair is both plus and minus.  It does take some special grooming (stripping).  Unlike the Beagle I grew up with which sheds big time, the Border sheds little to none.  And there's something about their hair / fur, dirt does not cling to it.  
    « Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 09:53:12 am by Sandpiper »
     
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    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #180 on: June 06, 2011, 09:46:22 am »
    Yay! One paw-step forward...

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #181 on: June 06, 2011, 12:56:11 pm »
    And here he is



    I got permission from Kathy to copy photo from her site.  She asks that you don't do that.  She did say I will be getting package of photos with "him".  All kinds of stuff and info, etc., etc., etc.  This is what I was expecting.  It feels so right, so good.

    I'm 'bout sure as I can be that his name will be Burke.  Or maybe Beckett (short Beck).
     
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    Offline N. Gemini Sasson

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #182 on: June 06, 2011, 02:14:29 pm »
    And here he is




    What a cutie! So happy for you, Sandpiper! Can't wait to hear all about him.

     :) :D ;D


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    Offline MichelleR

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #183 on: June 06, 2011, 03:01:27 pm »
    Here is my question:  I understand you've made your decision and I'm delighted for you.  But maybe you (Sandpiper) and Amy can answer this for me.  Why get purebred?  I understand wanting to make sure it's not from a puppy mill, but I really don't understand specifically paying for an animal who isn't a rescue.   It's not just cost to me, it's emotional.  There are so many rescues who need that bff-human.

    Most of the dogs I've had as an adult have been from rescue and are/were purebreds. They're not mutually exclusive. The last figure I saw is about 25% of dogs in shelters are purebred, and my experience working at a shelter matches that. Just about every breed there is also has a network of rescuers. ::shrug::

    I have no desire to get a non-rescue dog again, but I think it's important to tell people it's not either/or -- mixed breed dogs are great and deserve love and homes, but so does the purebred dog who comes into a shelter as a stray or a surrender -- or a cruelty case. When people decide they want a particular breed, I think it's important to remember that there are viable options other than a breeder. 

    There are breeds, like greyhounds, who are bred in large numbers in hopes that a small percentage are money earners -- too many of these dogs die simply because they don't run fast enough. Without rescue, those numbers would be much higher. My GH was a good racer who broke her leg, then they tried to breed her, but she wouldn't go into heat -- without rescue, she would probably have been put to sleep before she was three years old.

    People go purebred for poor reasons -- thinking they're somehow inherently better than a mixed breed -- but there are also legit reasons, like the same breed as the dog you grew up with, and a better understanding of likely traits, or because of allergies, or because you're looking for a dog that you can teach agility or want to do therapy with a dog and are looking for a smaller dog who can go on beds who is known for doing well at obedience and...

    Why not consider rescuing a purebred?
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    Offline MamaProfCrash

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #184 on: June 06, 2011, 03:35:08 pm »
    Michelle: Agreed. I know plenty of folks who participate in breed specific rescues. If I know of someone who is looking for a particular breed of dog, I recommend they look for a nearby breed associated rescue first. We have two rescues at home, both are mutts. The breed was less important to us then getting a puppy in good health. I know some folks who only rescue adult dogs, which I think is great. Puppies are always popular but the 10 year old dog that has been abandoned should have an opportunity at finding a great home as well.


    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #185 on: June 06, 2011, 04:31:12 pm »
    Admittedly, I didn't do any serious checking for Border Terrier rescue.  Quick look or two.  The breed is not common.  Sure wasn't 40 years ago and still isn't very . . . unless you're in the British Isles.  I definitely want a BT.  Nothing wrong with a mixture.  But I know the breed so want a BT which means from a breeder. 
     
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    Offline MichelleR

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #186 on: June 06, 2011, 04:36:23 pm »
    Puppies are always popular but the 10 year old dog that has been abandoned should have an opportunity at finding a great home as well.

    Yep, one of the shelties we rescued was just ... ancient. She came in as a stray and there was no way they were going to put her up for adoption. I could have worked with Sheltie Rescue and got her in there, but I figured "the heck with it." We called her grannie and she was just this spindly little, cataract-y, nearly toothless Methuseleh of a dog. She stuck around for another 2 years though. The other one I got specifically from the shelter I worked at was around 10 -- Paddington. Cindy, she was my second sheltie, was 6 and 1/2 when we got her. With out current sheltie we also sought out an older guy -- Ferguson was estimated at 10 and that was perhaps 3 years ago now.

    Seniors are great. What I loved about Paddington is he had this inherent dignity. A senior statesman.
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    Offline Stefanswit

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #187 on: June 06, 2011, 06:38:32 pm »
    Just don't get a snake.

    Offline caseyf6

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #188 on: June 07, 2011, 09:59:30 am »
    Thank you for answering my question -- I hope neither of you felt I was bashing your decision. 

    Especially if BT's are not common, I understand that a little more.  Your new pup is a CUTIE.  :)

    And Amy, GSD are my favorites too.  When I was little my stepmom's dog basically adopted me and they've been in my heart ever since.  Sheba had been abused as a puppy but when I was around she was a much stronger, safer-feeling dog.  :)

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #189 on: June 07, 2011, 10:55:35 am »
    Tam posted this photo waaay upthread.  (I hope she doesn't mind if I post it again.)  I just love it.  This is Daisy (now deceased  :( ), Tam's brother's BT.  Daisy looks like she's havin' fun.  Good living.

     
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    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #190 on: June 07, 2011, 11:41:34 am »
    Love the life jacket, too--she be a-stylin' right?  ;D

    Casey, not a problem re: the question. Everyone makes choices, and I'm a huge proponent of rescue, too. PetFinder.com is da bomb. *s*

    Offline Anne Victory

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #191 on: June 07, 2011, 12:25:56 pm »
    Well, that soured.  We "didn't fit [each other's] criteria".  The breeder would not communicate.  He said he doesn't check e-mail / doesn't e-mail.  When I'd get him on the phone, he was too busy to talk.  "I'll call you on  . . . ."  And then he didn't call.  He did NOT communicate until I turned on my computer this morning and there was a lengthy e-mail from him.  I didn't fit his criteria.  He would not and will not in the future sell a puppy to me.  OK.

    Based upon?  That just seems really weird to me.

    ETA:  Got caught up.  I agree with Amy - sounds like doofus had a case of mistaken identity.  Oh, well.

    On the bright side - you're getting a puppy!  Just three short days away - WOOT!
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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #192 on: June 07, 2011, 12:55:46 pm »
    On the bright side - you're getting a puppy!  Just three short days away - WOOT!

    I'll meet the breeder and see the pup this coming Saturday.  Won't bring him home until the following weekend or weekend after that.

    I keep trying to think of things to say to breeder to let her know how I feel about pup (dogs in general).  She shows dogs.  She's keeping a couple out of the litter and letting two go.  I imagine that has something to do with conformation, markings, coloring, etc.  I'll let her know that I don't want to know why she's letting mine go because he is perfect just as he is.  Not lacking in any way.
     
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    Offline MamaProfCrash

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #193 on: June 07, 2011, 01:16:41 pm »
    I would be prepared to talk to her about how you plan on handling potty training, crate training, where the dog will sleep, what you are planning on feeding the dog and why, how you plan on handeling possible problems like chewing, jumping, barking. You probably want to have a list of probable vets and animal hospitals that you are going to look and maybe the name of a kennel. She will want to know what the longest amount of time the puppy will be left alone.

    These are some of the answers that my Hubby and I used when we applied and were interviewed for our rescues. We also had to go through a home inspection where they looked at where the dog was going to sleep, where we would be exercising the dog, and if our home was prepared for a dog (ie not a cluttered, messy disaster with a ton of other animals)

    Potty training (using the crate, regular trips out doors, potty pads in the house, not leaving the dog longer then 1 hour per age in month)

    Crate training (gentle introduction to the crate, tossing in treats and toys and making it fun, leaving the pup for a few minutes and coming back before the pup starts to get anxious, slowly increasing the pups time alone in the crate)

    Discipline (firm voice, avoid yelling, don't use the dogs name and "no" in the same breath, list of places to go for training, when are you planning puppy classes)

    Chewing (keeping a chew toy on you so you can say "No" when caught chewing and the swap out with a chew toy, praise use of chew toys liberally, bitter apple or similar chew deterants, no rawhide until a year old)

    Bring pictures of the crate and the room the pup will sleep in.

    I think that you might want to look at different foods because I have difficulty believing that a breeder today is going to be happy with any of the mass produced dog foods. I understand where you are coming from but I guessing that anyone who breeds dogs and is very careful with placement is going to have the same bias about foods from Science Diet, Purina, ect... as some of the people who have posted about dog food. I could be wrong but it might not hurt to have a second or third food in mind if she asks and is not happy with your first choice.

    Don't forget to think about treats, she could ask you how you feel about them.

    Surprisingly we had the interviewers ask us about what type of leash we were going to use. All of them (four in total) were opposed to the retractable leashes because dogs have been run over when the owner has not been fast enough on the button. Also you might get questions about what type of collar or harness.

    Offline Amyshojai

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #194 on: June 07, 2011, 02:16:46 pm »
    Many breeders will have recommendations about food. Ours did--and that was part of the contract--we could feed what we wanted but IF problems happened down the road and we'd not fed the recommendation, the contract would be null. It wasn't a biggie--she recommended a food I liked anyway, and it was what Magic was used to.

    I HATE retractable leashes--not so much for the small dogs but problems especially with big guys. Retractable leashes teach dogs to pull, and often owners let the pup/dog get so far away there's really not much control left. Agree agree agree!

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #195 on: June 07, 2011, 03:18:59 pm »
    I've been buying and reading books (this is a book related site  ;) ).  Basically get puppy on a sleep, eating, potty, play schedule.  I do have a general "feel" for how it will all go as dogs are not totally foreign to me, but know I have many questions to ask breeder.  (Repeating myself -- that was the problem with previous breeder.)

    My understanding is that when housetraining puppies (when still young in any case), it's not a good idea to both potty outside AND use pads inside.  That's confusing for a puppy.  "Where am I supposed to go -- outiside or inside??"  Might work when the dog is older.  Amy?

    Having extreme temps here for few days -- mid to upper 90s for highs.  Just said on the news to keep dogs inside except for potty trips out.  Heat is harder on dogs than humans.  They're more susceptible to heatstroke.
     
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    Offline Ann Herrick

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #196 on: June 07, 2011, 03:42:39 pm »
    Sounds as if you are doing one of the best things, and that is not buying a dog (or any pet) on impulse. You're researching breeds and what they would be like as pets. I'm one of those who suggests the humane society, but if you do buy from a breeder, do a lot of research on the breeder as well as the breed. Once you make a choice, spay or neuter the dog, please!

    There was someone on PBS talking about training dogs by being very gentle with them (no choke chains, etc.) but of course now I can't remember his name or the name of his book.   :(

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    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #197 on: June 07, 2011, 03:56:42 pm »
    Sounds as if you are doing one of the best things, and that is not buying a dog (or any pet) on impulse. You're researching breeds and what they would be like as pets. I'm one of those who suggests the humane society, but if you do buy from a breeder, do a lot of research on the breeder as well as the breed. Once you make a choice, spay or neuter the dog, please!

    There was someone on PBS talking about training dogs by being very gentle with them (no choke chains, etc.) but of course now I can't remember his name or the name of his book.   :(

    I was just thinking along those lines about myself.  I can get all excited over something and then change my mind.  Why did I get myself into this??  I've certainly had plenty of opportunity to back out of getting a puppy . . . but I haven't.  I don't want to back out.  I DO want a puppy / dog.  I know it will be more "work" in the beginning.  I'm expecting that.  But I am looking forward to the next how many years with this little guy for a companion and roommate. 

    Training a dog today is much different than it was 40 - 50 years ago when I had my last.  Basically teach with praise and gentleness, not punishment.  Just ignore when dog does something bad.  There is no reward, praise, love given for any kind of no-no.
     
    My bro beagle (1954-1966).  I still miss him big time.
    His last collar hangs on my bedpost.

    Offline MamaProfCrash

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #198 on: June 07, 2011, 04:15:16 pm »
    We don't ignore when the dogs do something bad. We tell them no and then praise them when they do what they are suppose to. Cooper has some lab in him and it in shows in how much he loves to jump on things and how excitable he is. We always tell him no and then praise when he sits after jumping. It is more about the timing then anything. You have to make the correction as the action is happening and praise as the action is happening.

    The not yelling, whapping with rolled up newspaper, rubbing  dogs nose in things, and using choke chains seems to be more accepted these days. Although there are some breeds where I see people using choke collars but only for training.

    Offline Sandpiper

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    Re: Should I get a dog?
    « Reply #199 on: June 07, 2011, 04:25:38 pm »
    The not yelling, whapping with rolled up newspaper, rubbing  dogs nose in things, and using choke chains seems to be more accepted these days. Although there are some breeds where I see people using choke collars but only for training.

    Those things are definitely not done today.  True -- a strong "no" when appropriate.  Then praise when dog stops and does what he should.
     
    My bro beagle (1954-1966).  I still miss him big time.
    His last collar hangs on my bedpost.

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