Author Topic: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!  (Read 4630 times)  

Offline foreverjuly

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 6360
  • Gender: Male
  • Crank Up The Awesome!
    • View Profile
    • Jason Letts's Blogathon
Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2012, 05:56:30 pm »
I just finished the book (a long, hard haul), and the thought of Jon just being dead really leaves a void in my center. The swan song with his half-siblings, all that stuff about his mother never getting resolved (unless you believe the fishergirl story), and just a lonely and meaningless end. I agree with the above about Bran and Arya. The story basically abandoned Bran, and it's kind of painful to have Arya disavow herself and her place in ever chapter.

It was a long way to come for the fireworks at the end, though it's nice to see Varys making a splash. Ser Kevan deserved it for not knowing Cersei was still playing the game of thrones.

It would be nice to have a good vs. evil showdown and a resolution bringing peace, but the way there for any of the "good" characters is still hopelessly unclear.

KBoards.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Offline Thaddeus White

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 27
    • Gender: Male
    • England
      • View Profile
      • Thaddeus White's Website
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 12:46:20 am »
    I don't think Jon is dead. Just a hunch. I also don't think Stannis is dead.

    On the book itself: it was a bit weird for me. Previously my favourite characters were Tyrion and Daenerys, but I found both lacklustre. Tyrion didn't really do much, and Dany went from taking no nonsense from anyone to rolling over rather meekly. The whole Meereen section seemed a bit bogged down.

    However, Theon, who had been one of my least favourite characters, was excellent, and I really enjoyed his chapters. Generally, I think the bits set in the North were pretty good, whereas those across the Narrow Sea seemed, as others have said, to be in a bit of a holding pattern.

    I'm not too sure about suddenly introducing a second scion of House Targaryen. Have to wait and see how that plays out.
    Bane of Souls by Thaddeus White:

    http://thaddeuswhite.weebly.com/index.html

    Offline jason10mm

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 802
      • View Profile
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #27 on: June 22, 2012, 08:59:49 am »
    Hate read most if this series over the past year I have seen a bit if a change in how Martin plots out chapters. In the earlier books there was always at least two critical points, usually one related to the PoV character and the other either a critical flashback or a reference to another POV plot line. Alas, in the later books this dropped away a bit was we got more and more characters that had relatively isolated stories, Martin stopped bein able to give plot resolutions via other characters.

    For example, giving the Martell suitor his own POV instead of referencing him through Saelmy and Dany was a mistake, I think.

    Offline HughJanus

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 3
      • View Profile
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 09:00:14 am »
    I think Jon will be alive. It seems that each red priest has their own specific power, and reanimation belonged to Thoros not Melisandre. Four stab wounds are easy enough to survive. I recall a woman on the Maury show who was stabbed 37 times and lived, and she wasn't even a beloved character in a story. I'm kind of annoyed that it has been four books without a chapter focusing on what happened to Osha and Rickon. I realize there was a brief mention of them in Davos' chapter, but that was hardly enough for me. 

    Offline DYB

    • Status: Arthur C Clarke
    • *****
    • Posts: 2627
    • Gender: Male
    • NYC
    • Now Reading: "'Salem's Lot"
      • View Profile
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #29 on: February 19, 2013, 09:35:51 am »
    I agree about Jon - there is just no way he's dead!  I mean...there's no way he's dead!!!!!!!  Our emotional attachments aside, killing him off will be such a huge anticlimax.  I mean, what has been the point of him?  There has to be a lot more to his story.  Of course, Martin reanimates Catelyn - and for what purpose?  Kind of a waste of immortality there.

    The Dany chapters were deadly.  They should have easily been cut in half.  And the Martell suitor - just a distraction.

    The Epilogue was good, but that's a big slog to get to the Epilogue!

    Offline jason10mm

    • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
    • ****
    • Posts: 802
      • View Profile
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 11:21:49 am »
    I agree that it is highly unlikely that Jon is dead, unlikely even that Jon will be reanimated into Ghost. He'll probably just be laid up with a few stab wounds. But Martin certainly can kill a main character and move on (though he seems very reluctant to do it with a POV character aside from Ned). Jon may have served his purpose, to get the Wildlings south of the Wall and at least sorta reinvigorate the Watch. Heck, Robb died without ever really accomplishing much. True, he was never a POV character. To date it has been the FANS who have trumped up Jon's true parentage and his place in any prophecies, GRRM himself has never commited much to paper about it.

    Offline DYB

    • Status: Arthur C Clarke
    • *****
    • Posts: 2627
    • Gender: Male
    • NYC
    • Now Reading: "'Salem's Lot"
      • View Profile
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 01:56:18 pm »
    Wasn't Robb a POV character in GoT?

    Offline 1mattfitzgerald

    • Status: Dr. Seuss
    • *
    • Posts: 11
    • Gender: Male
    • Massachusetts
      • View Profile
      • Author Page
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #32 on: April 25, 2013, 06:16:07 am »
    My theory on Jon Snow: He dies and is brought back by the Red Woman. Thus, now his watch is ended. If he is free of the Night's watch legitimately  - and not as a deserter - he can assume control of Winterfell & be ready to fight or team up with the mother of dragons.

    I think the title of the series refers to them Jon is Ice (from the north) & she is fire because of her dragons.

    just my 2 cents.


    Offline EvanPickering

    • Status: Jane Austen
    • ***
    • Posts: 462
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
      • The Apocalypse Wouldn't Be A Good Time To Write, So Let's Do It Now.
    Re: Final thoughts about the book. SPOILERS!
    « Reply #33 on: March 24, 2016, 03:20:00 am »
    A lot... and I mean, A LOT of the polish has come off this series for me.

    I fell in love with the series for it's unpredictability and well-crafted story arcs, immersive world and great writing.

    At this point, it's degenerated into twists for the sake of being unpredictable... long pointless arcs with little payoff, largely ending in tragedy... the relentless fudging over of the Stark family for god knows why... and a storyline that looks like it's growing out of control and is becoming a burden for the writer to write. Frankly, it reads like it too.

    It's not that I didn't like the book. It was good. But I didn't fall in love with ASOIAF and GRRM becuase it was good. I fell in love because it was AWESOME.
    It really reads like the writer is struggling with the weight of his own world. I hate to say it, but AFFC was super unsatisfying, and ADWD felt like it was killing a lot of time. There were two main things I thought were redeeming for the book: Varys' murder of Kevan(?) Lannister, showing he was always supporting the Targaryens. Baller! and two: The reappearance of Aegon Targaryen with Jon Connington when they come back to the stormlands and are marching on King's Landing.
    Outside of those two things, I found the book relatively listless. I also have found myself with many, many dead characters who I actually liked and few alive ones that I still enjoy, to be fair.

    Also: something that always bothered me. We laud him for killing the "heroes" like ned and Robb etc etc because that's so uncharacteristic of novels where the writer sides with their heroes... But if you've ever seen GRRM, he definitely identifies himself most with Tyrion. He's clearly shown an obsession with "cripples [illegitimate persons] and broken things". I think it's part of why Tyrion is a brilliant character, becuase GRRM is a brilliant man and Tyrion is the closest to a 'mary sue' he has in the story.

    My belief in this was only furthered when in ADWD Tyrion gets dragged underwater by the stone men and somehow survives even though it made absolutely no sense and was EXTREMELY deus-ex-machina, especially for GRRM who basically never lets characters survive deadly situations. All I could think was, "Oh, he's saving HIS hero. Just like every fantasy writer does with their own."

    anyway. /rant

    Truth is I'm such a huge fan. I'm just quite disappointed with the direction of the last two books aside from a few moments at the end of ADWD that give me hope that winds of winter will revitalize GRRM!

    Time will tell
     
    A Legend Is Reborn In The American Apocalypse.
    Evan Pickering | Post-Apoc Writing Blog | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads

    KBoards.com

    • Advertisement
    • ***