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Writers' Cafe / Re: Is everyone ok on kboards?
« on: October 24, 2015, 11:09:38 am »
I know some people didn't see Buckley's "How to get a drugged Asian prostitute" book. (Although that's a question too--why not? It was referenced quite a few times. The only direct response I remember seeing was people telling him to take it down or at least change the cover--a man sliding his hand up the thigh of a young drugged girl passed out on a bed--so that he could get more money for his fundraising campaign.)
Strangely, that wasn't even what I was complaining about. Let's imagine for a moment that book didn't exist. It did, and it still does, but that's a separate issue. Let's imagine that only his other books existed. I would like to know why people--many, many people here on Kboards--kept encouraging him to write more, change keywords, adjust his covers, try advertising, etc. And almost no one told him he couldn't write. If anyone ever tried to, it seemed those comments got moderated away or protested by people saying that everything was somebody's cup of tea, you couldn't criticize anyone else's writing, this Pulitzer winner got one-star reviews so never mind about his, etc.
See, that was my breaking point--when the forum as a whole declared that no writing is ever bad. Are there disagreements over what makes fine prose? Well, of course. I just don't see the logical extension of that being "and therefore no writing is ever bad, and therefore must never be discussed."
Is there really no harm in telling someone with craptastic writing that their works are good and to keep going? I don't think so. I think there is definite harm. I think you're asking them to invest time, energy, caring, and above all hope that they might get some reward, when you know they won't. This was a man desperate for money. "Go home and get on social services," that was sensible advice. "Just keep on trying, man! Why don't you try a romance next?", that was abusively cruel. And if people say, "Oh, well, I never looked at his books, I just gave the standard advice," I wonder why. If someone says their book isn't selling, wouldn't the FIRST thing you'd do be to look at the book? Rather than to never look at the book? If I say my dog isn't well, do you automatically say, "Oh, give him B-12 injections", or do you ask to look at the dog? Because if his leg is broken, vitamins aren't what he needs right now.
Well, some people did look at his books. Some people from Kboards bought them. Some gave him 5-star reviews (that are still up, names attached...). A Kboarder designed his Christmas book cover. A Kboarder gave it a 5-star review (its only other review is a 1-star). Go ahead. Check the Look Inside. Really? That's a question of people liking different cups of tea? That's not someone with serious grammatical and story arc issues who needs a ghostwriter? But he wasn't told that. He was told he had a unique voice and to keep going. Someone bought him a Damonza cover. Check the look inside of that one. Check all three volumes, since Kboards told him to make it a series and release quickly, because everyone knows series do well. Check the Cave In series he wrote when he was told romance sells.
I get being kind; I get helping out; I get paying back. But lying to people about their chances is just cruel. I don't get that. I don't get building people up so that their dreams can be crushed (especially when they're in desperate financial straits). Buckley was the most extreme example; but he also wasn't the only one.
There are great people and great writers on Kboards--there most definitely are (many of whom also post, of course, in closed places elsewhere). There are smart, successful, funny, engaged people on Kboards, many in this very thread. If most people are happy in a particular environment and I am not, the 'solution' is not for me to rail about wanting changes; the solution is for me to go and find myself a compatible place, and I have. I am not asking for a single change to Kboards or the way it is run.
I guess I just felt like saying it isn't true that people who don't post as much (or at all) are all "too busy." And to ask, because I never did at the time, why people encouraged someone who couldn't write to write more. Well, not to write more--to publish and offer works for sale more. I don't expect an answer, but I couldn't help asking.
Strangely, that wasn't even what I was complaining about. Let's imagine for a moment that book didn't exist. It did, and it still does, but that's a separate issue. Let's imagine that only his other books existed. I would like to know why people--many, many people here on Kboards--kept encouraging him to write more, change keywords, adjust his covers, try advertising, etc. And almost no one told him he couldn't write. If anyone ever tried to, it seemed those comments got moderated away or protested by people saying that everything was somebody's cup of tea, you couldn't criticize anyone else's writing, this Pulitzer winner got one-star reviews so never mind about his, etc.
See, that was my breaking point--when the forum as a whole declared that no writing is ever bad. Are there disagreements over what makes fine prose? Well, of course. I just don't see the logical extension of that being "and therefore no writing is ever bad, and therefore must never be discussed."
Is there really no harm in telling someone with craptastic writing that their works are good and to keep going? I don't think so. I think there is definite harm. I think you're asking them to invest time, energy, caring, and above all hope that they might get some reward, when you know they won't. This was a man desperate for money. "Go home and get on social services," that was sensible advice. "Just keep on trying, man! Why don't you try a romance next?", that was abusively cruel. And if people say, "Oh, well, I never looked at his books, I just gave the standard advice," I wonder why. If someone says their book isn't selling, wouldn't the FIRST thing you'd do be to look at the book? Rather than to never look at the book? If I say my dog isn't well, do you automatically say, "Oh, give him B-12 injections", or do you ask to look at the dog? Because if his leg is broken, vitamins aren't what he needs right now.
Well, some people did look at his books. Some people from Kboards bought them. Some gave him 5-star reviews (that are still up, names attached...). A Kboarder designed his Christmas book cover. A Kboarder gave it a 5-star review (its only other review is a 1-star). Go ahead. Check the Look Inside. Really? That's a question of people liking different cups of tea? That's not someone with serious grammatical and story arc issues who needs a ghostwriter? But he wasn't told that. He was told he had a unique voice and to keep going. Someone bought him a Damonza cover. Check the look inside of that one. Check all three volumes, since Kboards told him to make it a series and release quickly, because everyone knows series do well. Check the Cave In series he wrote when he was told romance sells.
I get being kind; I get helping out; I get paying back. But lying to people about their chances is just cruel. I don't get that. I don't get building people up so that their dreams can be crushed (especially when they're in desperate financial straits). Buckley was the most extreme example; but he also wasn't the only one.
There are great people and great writers on Kboards--there most definitely are (many of whom also post, of course, in closed places elsewhere). There are smart, successful, funny, engaged people on Kboards, many in this very thread. If most people are happy in a particular environment and I am not, the 'solution' is not for me to rail about wanting changes; the solution is for me to go and find myself a compatible place, and I have. I am not asking for a single change to Kboards or the way it is run.
I guess I just felt like saying it isn't true that people who don't post as much (or at all) are all "too busy." And to ask, because I never did at the time, why people encouraged someone who couldn't write to write more. Well, not to write more--to publish and offer works for sale more. I don't expect an answer, but I couldn't help asking.