Author Topic: Can you scale AMS up?  (Read 1234 times)  

Offline spanchops

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Can you scale AMS up?
« on: February 05, 2019, 11:22:08 am »
Hello
I've been through all the pain of AMS set up and I've got ads working which do give me a good ROI, however it's not a massive amount a day - 1 to 3 books sales on an average day, 6 on a good day.

I want to ramp this up but I can't seem to get it to work. I've increased the daily budget, increased bids but still seem to be getting the same amount of daily impressions.

Just looking for some advice.

S x

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    Offline Arches

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      • Michael Arches
    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 11:32:50 am »
    It's a long-standing problem with the platform. Mark Dawson suggests lots of ads, each with low daily bids, but that seems to be more trouble to manage than it's worth.

    Offline Anarchist

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 12:06:26 pm »
    Hello
    I've been through all the pain of AMS set up and I've got ads working which do give me a good ROI, however it's not a massive amount a day - 1 to 3 books sales on an average day, 6 on a good day.

    I want to ramp this up but I can't seem to get it to work. I've increased the daily budget, increased bids but still seem to be getting the same amount of daily impressions.

    Just looking for some advice.

    S x

    More keywords.
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

    Offline spanchops

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 11:29:52 pm »
    Could you give more a bit more idea on this please. I have 10 campaigns running with the max allowed number of keywords in. Do you run more than this? I am just trying to promote the first book in a series. Is there a point to aim for? like 100 campaigns with 1000 keywords in each all targeting one book?
    Thanks

    Online Decon

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 01:55:22 am »
    I'm not sure that you can scale up, other than adding more keywords, increasing your bid and upping your daily budget. But having done this many times, it just seems to line Amazon's take.

    I only have one book that is producing selling both print and ebooks daily, and with only 100 keywords I am forever getting emails that I should increase my daily limit from 5 to 10 dollars because I am getting a sweet spot of clicks from those 100 keywords. So for me to scale up, all I have to do is to increase my daily budget, which I won't do.

    If you are not hitting your daily budget with your existing keywords, then maybe the answer is to scale down and to pay more attention to only performing keywords that hit front page. It's far easier to maintain keywords by pausing and changing when you have fewer keywords showing as front page performing ads, but it reduces your ACOS with higher bids unless you increase your retail price.

    « Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 02:09:50 am by Decon »


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    Offline spanchops

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 02:12:27 am »
    This does seem to be the case. I seem to be running into a long list of promo sites that just want to take money from me, and I had hoped I could get AMS to work. I have it getting me some sales but not a huge amount, a few a day, but that's not going to pay the grocery bill so I had hoped I could grow it.

    I might have to bite the bullet and go back to looking at facebook ads or twitter ads again to see if there is any margin in those.

    Thanks very much for taking the time to reply - really appreciated.

    S x

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 04:17:46 am »
    Scaling is definitely hard. The common wisdom says there are a few things that could be looked at:

    -Higher Daily Budgets
    -A strong focus on CTR, pausing anything that could bring Click Thru Rate down (No clicks after 1500 impressions? Kill it.)
    -AMS is about relevancy so chop any keyword terms that isn't highly targeted to the book in question
    -Higher bids on those keywords that are bringing high CTR and sales (Could start a new ad with those performing keywords as both Phrase and Exact matches)
    -Utilize search term isolation and create Negative Phrases to keep targeting on point

    Offline Anarchist

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 07:36:01 am »
    Could you give more a bit more idea on this please. I have 10 campaigns running with the max allowed number of keywords in. Do you run more than this? I am just trying to promote the first book in a series. Is there a point to aim for? like 100 campaigns with 1000 keywords in each all targeting one book?
    Thanks

    I can't tell you how to approach your ads because I'm ignorant about your books, covers, descriptions, and genres. Nor do I know the amount of capital you possess or your aversion to risk.

    Here's where I'm coming from...

    I'm writing under two names (brands). I'm running thousands of campaigns in the U.S. and currently scaling up in the UK. I'm bidding on hundreds of thousands of keywords. My monthly spend is in the five figures.




    Note: I don't respond to PMs regarding AMS anymore. It's too much work.



    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

    Offline Accord64

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 07:46:36 am »
    I want to ramp this up but I can't seem to get it to work.

    Because you need the secret password to access the macro-AMS campaign settings.

    Well, that's a possibility that I'm left to conclude.  ;)

    Scaling up has been an elusive goal to many, and I suspect for those who have been successful, they aren't going to share their secret. 

    Offline EmparentingMom

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 08:56:36 am »
    -Utilize search term isolation and create Negative Phrases to keep targeting on point
    What is search term isolation? As my keywords are defined as "broad", under any given key word there are some searches that perform well, and other that don't. On the UK platform I can get a report that give a break down for each search, so that I can isolate and remove search terms that are under-performing. Is there a way to do this for AMS in the US?

    Offline Arches

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      • Michael Arches
    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 09:01:11 am »
    Because you need the secret password to access the macro-AMS campaign settings.

    Well, that's a possibility that I'm left to conclude.  ;)

    Scaling up has been an elusive goal to many, and I suspect for those who have been successful, they aren't going to share their secret.

    I don't think those who've been successful with AMS ads are hiding much. In the many past threads on this topic, an eternal favorite on Kboards, lots of people have offered suggestions, including very successful authors. I think the answer may have more to do with their books than any secret password. For example, many of the successful authors write nonfiction. Others may write fiction but not in a particularly competitive genre like romance or urban fantasy. In my experience, my success has also varied wildly from book to book.

    Offline spanchops

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 09:04:36 am »
    I think the Anarchist has the idea. 1000's of campaigns and hundreds of thousands of keywords. I'm not averse to graft so I am going to be inspired by his words and set to work.

    I will put some serious time aside for this and I will report my findings back once I have some results.

    S x

    Offline spanchops

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 09:25:50 am »
    I can't tell you how to approach your ads because I'm ignorant about your books, covers, descriptions, and genres. Nor do I know the amount of capital you possess or your aversion to risk.

    Here's where I'm coming from...

    I'm writing under two names (brands). I'm running thousands of campaigns in the U.S. and currently scaling up in the UK. I'm bidding on hundreds of thousands of keywords. My monthly spend is in the five figures.




    Note: I don't respond to PMs regarding AMS anymore. It's too much work.


    Just a quick question, if I may. I'm using KDP Rocket to help with keyword generation, are there any other platforms you can recommend please. Thanks S x

    Offline Anarchist

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 09:31:46 am »
    I think the Anarchist has the idea. 1000's of campaigns and hundreds of thousands of keywords. I'm not averse to graft so I am going to be inspired by his words and set to work.

    I recommend setting numerical rules that dictate when you kill ineffective keywords and when/how you adjust bids. That way, you can make quick decisions without second-guessing yourself.



    Just a quick question, if I may. I'm using KDP Rocket to help with keyword generation, are there any other platforms you can recommend please. Thanks S x

    I use several tools and tactics. I prefer to stay mum on both. But here's my advice on a macro level.





    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

    Offline spanchops

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 11:53:25 am »
    Thanks for the tips. Getting stuck into how to mine for keywords at this very moment. I do like a learning curve!

    Offline tensen

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 12:15:29 pm »
    Switching over to the new Sponsored Products from the Product Display Ads is like a whole new learning process on what works for ads.

    Offline erikhanberg

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 01:37:04 pm »
    I've successfully scaled up with more keywords for one. But also multiple ads for the same book. Multiple paperback and kindle ads for the same book, and at a variety of maximum CPCs. So I have one book where I have a $0.75/CPC on one ad and $0.50 CPC on another. Both seem to work! (Note: these are nonfiction books so I don't know if the same thing will translate to fiction).

    Offline baldricko

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 01:55:24 pm »
    Scaling is definitely hard. The common wisdom says there are a few things that could be looked at:

    -Higher Daily Budgets
    -A strong focus on CTR, pausing anything that could bring Click Thru Rate down (No clicks after 1500 impressions? Kill it.)
    -AMS is about relevancy so chop any keyword terms that isn't highly targeted to the book in question
    -Higher bids on those keywords that are bringing high CTR and sales (Could start a new ad with those performing keywords as both Phrase and Exact matches)
    -Utilize search term isolation and create Negative Phrases to keep targeting on point
    Good advice from everyone above but this in particular.

    And use the negative phrases. Including negative does help filter out those readers who think your book is about oranges when it's really about apples, and as a result, in their frustration, fire off a bitter review.

    The key to making AMS work does seem to center on relevancy.

    Offline Jack Krenneck

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 03:27:19 pm »
    Like everything else with Amazon, they reward sales.

    A book with a rank of 50,000 has a natural ceiling. Amazon are only going to show an ad for it a certain number of times. There's only so many impressions available to bid for on any given keyword.

    If a book has a rank of 10,000, Amazon knows it's more likely to sell. Your ceiling will rise. Or if you prefer, the number of impressions Amazon is willing to risk allocating to you will rise.

    Same for 5,000 and 2,000 and ... You see where this is going.

    So scaling is all the things people have been talking about, but each book also has a natural ceiling stopping you from scaling beyond a certain level, at least on a keyword basis. 

    Offline erikhanberg

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 06:44:26 pm »
    So scaling is all the things people have been talking about, but each book also has a natural ceiling stopping you from scaling beyond a certain level, at least on a keyword basis. 

    I agree a book may have a natural ceiling but I think most likely you don't know that ceiling *until* you start advertising heavily. I did not know that one of my books could be selling $100 a day until after I started advertising. And it consistently went up over the last year, suggesting I was raising my ceiling. It is consistently in the top 20 in the category so it probably is close to the natural ceiling now. But I am literally doing 15x what I was doing at this time two years ago with that book. All thanks to AMS Ads.

    Offline spanchops

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 05:32:37 pm »
    Could you give more a bit more idea on this please. I have 10 campaigns running with the max allowed number of keywords in. Do you run more than this? I am just trying to promote the first book in a series. Is there a point to aim for? like 100 campaigns with 1000 keywords in each all targeting one book?
    Thanks

    I can happily report that it's taken about 15 hours but I have now got just shy of 10,000 keywords which I have grouped and cleaned and sorted into a variety of campaigns. These are producing clicks already which is promising - and the spend level is between 2p and 4p (I'm using .co.uk for AMS at the moment).

    Getting the first relevant 5-7k keywords wasn't too hard, time consuming but not hard, after that the process started to slow down and I can now see that after 10k I am going to have to think outside of the box to discover new directions to go in.

    S x

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    Re: Can you scale AMS up?
    « Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 07:20:59 pm »
    I can happily report that it's taken about 15 hours but I have now got just shy of 10,000 keywords which I have grouped and cleaned and sorted into a variety of campaigns. These are producing clicks already which is promising - and the spend level is between 2p and 4p (I'm using .co.uk for AMS at the moment).

    Getting the first relevant 5-7k keywords wasn't too hard, time consuming but not hard, after that the process started to slow down and I can now see that after 10k I am going to have to think outside of the box to discover new directions to go in.

    S x

    Be careful going down that route. It can only lead to madness. You think you're doing something amazing but in actuality, you're far from it. There's no possible way that over 7k words are relevant to a title. Even if they are, I'd find it hard to believe that it'd work out in your favour. Some of my best, and I mean best, have only 20 keywords working for them. Usually it's around 8 to 12. I, like you, thought more equals better but it really doesn't work that way. Relevancy is key. If the keywords aren't found in your product page or in the backend keywords in your dashboard, Amazon probably won't serve the keyword up no matter how high you bid. That's why you see so many people complaining about no impressions when they're bidding .75 cents or higher.

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