[libbyfh]

Way down at the bottom of the page...

Sorry... where at the bottom of the page?

 

[Mr. RAD]

Sorry... where at the bottom of the page?

At the bottom of what page?

 

[Sarah Woodbury]

Um . . . when I go to Amazon, they no longer have the 'percent who bought' line in favor of a more general list of four books.

 

[Cheryl Bradshaw Author]

Um . . . when I go to Amazon, they no longer have the 'percent who bought' line in favor of a more general list of four books.

Me too!

 

[Mel Comley]

Since the radio Gaga debacle my sales have gone to pot anyway.

I changed my product description 10 days ago and it still hasn't altered, I've been told they're working on it.

I looked yesterday and they'd put an old blurb up, when I refreshed the page it changed to the one I want to get rid of, refreshed again numerous times and it just kept changing! Work that one out.

I do think the also bought bar is the main reason books rise up the charts.

 

[Victorine]

Vicki, I know you're not happy about this, but it's kind of a comfort to me because sometimes I see everyone reporting continually increasing sales (per book not overall) and think I must be unique somehow. All 3 of my books have tapered over time. The mystery got down to a really discouraging number, but now seems to have found a second wind, kind of in the middle of its peak and bottom.

Putting out the second romance gave the first romance a big boost, although I put the second one out in late November and the magic of the months of December and January surely played a part. Both romances are tapering now.

Maybe there are some books for which sales keep going at a high level forever like the Energizer bunny, but I suspect for a lot of them there are only so many people open to buying a book like that from an indie and once the ways word of your particular book is getting out reaches a certain percentage of them, things slow down.

From the effect of getting my second romance out, I really believe the best solution is more books out there. Speaking of the Energizer bunny, I'm working on a third romance like that and better get back to it.

Well, I figured I couldn't sell at a high level for a long time. I am glad your book has found a second wind, I'm hoping there's a nice steady sales rut I'll fall into, instead of going back to 3 sales a day!

Vicki

 

[P.A. Woodburn]

Over the last couple of weeks I have changed everything and just now, the blurb. This will be my last change unless I change the price at some point. I hope the blurb doesn't put me on hold like yours, Mel.

I live quite near Amazon maybe I should find out if you can visit or something. I might pick up some information.

Ann

 

[Susanne O]

My chick lit novel, Fresh Powder was selling at around 150 a day for weeks in the UK. It reached number 32 overall in the charts and was number one in the romance category. Then, about a week ago, it suddenly dropped to 60, then right out of the topp 100. No idea what happened, just as I have no idea why it started to sell in such number about a month ago. It has now sold over 8000 in all.

But I really don't understand what is going on or if it was Amazon promoting it, then dropping it for something else.

 

[NickSpalding]

There's no way I can sell 750 books on my very own. I can't reach that many people by posting on forums or blogs. It wasn't ME. It HAD to be Amazon.

An excellent point. I've noticed this too (albeit in far lower sales numbers than 750 a day!).

My degree of posting at forums, blogs etc. etc. never really changes that much, but sales fluctuate constantly. In fact, May was my best month by far with over 2500 sales and I hardly had time to do any promotional work at all. This month I've tailed off and have posted more.

Go figure skate.

It really is Amazon's little gremlins that make your book a runaway success or not.

…and something funny is going on over at Amazon UK. Quite a few indie authors have reported dips in sales that are uncharacteristically high. Saffina seems to be suffering from this the most. I emailed Amazon to enquire if anything had changed in their approach to indie books and they said no.

I pointed out how the tags had disappeared, the forum links had changed, and that other elements of the site keep appearing and disappearing like Movers and Shakers, but they put this down to them trying to improve the browsing experience for readers. Quite how buggering about with the page so much it looks different on an almost daily basis is improving the browsing experience is beyond me…

 

[Lexi Revellian]

Susanne, I noticed that Fresh Powder was on an Amazon promotion page for a couple of months - sorry, don't remember which one - and this does have a magical effect on sales, like being on the table at the front of the bookshop.

David, the very best place to be is the top ten, as your book is on the right of the main Kindle page, the page most buyers start with. In my opinion, if you get in the top ten you tend to stick there; drop out of it and you tend to drop. But Amazon's systems are complex, and just as well, or people would be successfully gaming the charts all the time.

Lexi

 

[Susanne O]

Susanne, I noticed that Fresh Powder was on an Amazon promotion page for a couple of months - sorry, don't remember which one - and this does have a magical effect on sales, like being on the table at the front of the bookshop.

David, the very best place to be is the top ten, as your book is on the right of the main Kindle page, the page most buyers start with. In my opinion, if you get in the top ten you tend to stick there; drop out of it and you tend to drop. But Amazon's systems are complex, and just as well, or people would be successfully gaming the charts all the time.

Lexi

Thanks, Lexi, I didn't know this. Makes you realise that you can't really control sales yourself. Bit it might make the sales of my other books go up.

 

[Lexi Revellian]

I think that's true; sometimes we get an illusion of control, when some promotion or strategy seems to work, but it's impossible to prove a connection between what we do and sales. Often it's a combination of factors having an effect.

Luck, good and bad, plays a big part.

Lexi

 

[41419]

Thanks for all that info guys, very helpful.

I heard someone the other day say that only 10% of promo is effective, the problem is we never know which 10%. Perhaps in time, we will learn what can truly help you tap into Amazon's algorithm, by which time I will imagine they will change it again!

 

[Jan Hurst-Nicholson]

My ranking also dropped rather dramatically over Easter. But Can You... peaked at #20 on Amazon UK and was #1 in three categories for a couple of weeks. It gradually fell to about #46 over 3 months, and then overnight went to #119 and is now about #250.
I agree that Amazon probably want to rotate the top #100 as some customers choose their books from this list and new ones need to appear regularly, but once your book is out of the top #100 it definitely loses momentum. My sales are now 50% of what they were. 

 

[Susanne O]

My ranking also dropped rather dramatically over Easter. But Can You... peaked at #20 on Amazon UK and was #1 in three categories for a couple of weeks. It gradually fell to about #46 over 3 months, and then overnight went to #119 and is now about #250.
I agree that Amazon probably want to rotate the top #100 as some customers choose their books from this list and new ones need to appear regularly, but once your book is out of the top #100 it definitely loses momentum. My sales are now 50% of what they were.

Exactly what happened to mine but hey, 50% is still around 70 or so a day...

 

[Tim Ellis]

I had a conversation with someone at Amazon (in Seattle) who works in author-agent relations. He doesn't know how the ranking algorithm works, but he talks to the people who do, and he threw out the word "conversion" several times in the conversation, like it was something obvious.

I suspect that the degree to which they promote your book has to do with the rate at which your book is converting views into sales. If lots of people see your book and only a few buy it, they will give that slot to someone else. If lots of people see your book and lots buy it, they'll start giving you more slots. At some point, you'll start to have saturated the audience--that's when you'll peak, and when you've reached that point, your conversion rate will go down, and that will drop you, and then you'll make fewer sales and you'll fall farther in the rankings. It's an accelerating positive feedback loop on the way up, but's an accelerating negative feedback loop on the way down, too.

I'm interpolating from a pair of offhand comments and logic, but it makes sense. Amazon wants to make as much money as possible. They want people to buy books as many times as possible. Real estate is valuable. They're going to give it to the books that do the best job of turning views into purchases. The instant you stop doing that, they'll walk away from you, fickle fair-weather friends that they are.

They're loving me right now, and I'm loving them back.

I think I love you as well, Courtney! That's the best sense I've heard (read) anyone speak (write) all morning. Makes absolute sense about converting views into sales and if people haven't cottoned on to the consequences of that concerning their cover, blurb, etc., then they should probably start painting or clay modelling instead!

 

[Susanne O]

I think I love you as well, Courtney! That's the best sense I've heard (read) anyone speak (write) all morning. Makes absolute sense about converting views into sales and if people haven't cottoned on to the consequences of that concerning their cover, blurb, etc., then they should probably start painting or clay modelling instead!

Yes, but if that were true, 'Virtual Strangers', which has '80% of peole who viewed buy this book', would now be going up. But it's not. Very moderate sales there so far.

 

[Nancy Fulda]

In fact, May was my best month by far with over 2500 sales and I hardly had time to do any promotional work at all. This month I've tailed off and have posted more.

This is very interesting, because combined with the conversion rate issue discussed earlier, it may actually be possible for an author to HURT his or her sales by promoting.

Example: Book X has a pretty decent conversion rate and gets picked up by the algorithms. Who clicks on its cover image in the Amazon "also bought" section? Customers who are browsing the stacks, predisposed to spend money. If they saw the cover, liked it, and clicked it, chances are good that they'll buy it. Conversion rate stays high.

Now suppose the author has a massive publicity event -- really good buzz on a couple of prominent blogs or whatever -- Lots of people will click through to the Amazon page to see what all the hype is about, but very few of them will be predisposed to make a purchase. Conversation rates go down.

My conclusion from all this: If a book is doing well on Amazon, it might be worthwhile to make sure publicity links are directed to other outlets where the book isn't running as strongly: B&N or Smashwords, for examples.

 

[Nancy Fulda]

Yes, but if that were true, 'Virtual Strangers', which has '80% of peole who viewed buy this book', would now be going up. But it's not. Very moderate sales there so far.

Not necessarily. 'x% of people who viewed buy this book' is not the same thing as conversion rate -- or at least, according to my understanding of what conversion rate is. They're two separate numbers. Amazon puts one on the customer page because it helps to drive sales. The other number (assuming that Amazon tracks it, and I bet they do) isn't useful to customers so it's not on any customer pages.

We don't have any data as to which conversion rate Amazon uses. Could be 'of people who viewed this page -- no matter how they got here or whether they made any other purchases -- how many of them bought the book'. Could be 'of people who saw this book in the Also Bought listings and clicked through, how many of them bought the book'. Could be 'of the number of people who were shown this book's cover in an Also Bought listing, how many of them actually (a) clicked the link and (b) followed through with a purchase'.

If it was my algorithm, I'd go with the last one, because it makes the most sense. (In which case my previous post about promotions hurting sales would no longer apply.)

Ok, I'm done being OCD analytical now...

 

[Jan Hurst-Nicholson]

Not necessarily. 'x% of people who viewed buy this book' is not the same thing as conversion rate -- or at least, according to my understanding of what conversion rate is. They're two separate numbers. Amazon puts one on the customer page because it helps to drive sales. The other number (assuming that Amazon tracks it, and I bet they do) isn't useful to customers so it's not on any customer pages.

We don't have any data as to which conversion rate Amazon uses. Could be 'of people who viewed this page -- no matter how they got here or whether they made any other purchases -- how many of them bought the book'. Could be 'of people who saw this book in the Also Bought listings and clicked through, how many of them bought the book'. Could be 'of the number of people who were shown this book's cover in an Also Bought listing, how many of them actually (a) clicked the link and (b) followed through with a purchase'.

If it was my algorithm, and I'd go with the last one, because it makes the most sense. (In which case my previous post about promotions hurting sales would no longer apply.)

Ok, I'm done being OCD analytical now...

It would be useful for writers to know how many customers clicked on their book and read a sample, but then didn't follow through with a purchase. You could have a great cover and description, but the customer didn't like the sample. This would indicate to the writer that there could be something wrong with the sample. If you're not getting any traffic to your book, this could mean your cover and description needs attention.