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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My book is ready and I was thinking of publishing these days, but when I checked the license of the Palatino Linotype font (the one I chose for its publication), I see that it is not a font under the OFL license, which allows all use for free.

I have no problem with paying for a font license if this is necessary, generally, I prefer to use fonts under the OFL license because there is no ambiguity in their terms.

My book is already layout with this font and I don't want to have to change. Does anyone know if this font can be freely used for this purpose?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your reply.

I see now, but Linotype licenses are a little expensive, i will change everything and use a free font. I feel a little sad, because Palatino is an amazing font, the content just look amazing with it.
 

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If you have Microsoft Word, one of the fonts is Palantino Lynotype ... when you buy the program, then you buy the rights to use it as best I know.  I used it in several publications with no blowback. But, I'm not a intellectual rights attorney, so don't take my post a legal permission.  I can't imagine MS Word requiring purchase of rights to use a type set or font it supplies with its programs.  :(  Verify if you plan to use it ... but I would use it again.
 

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boxer44 said:
If you have Microsoft Word, one of the fonts is Palantino Lynotype ... when you buy the program, then you buy the rights to use it as best I know. I used it in several publications with no blowback. But, I'm not a intellectual rights attorney, so don't take my post a legal permission. I can't imagine MS Word requiring purchase of rights to use a type set or font it supplies with its programs. :( Verify if you plan to use it ... but I would use it again.
I believe the right to use it for personal use is what you get with Microsoft Word. If buying Word gave you the right to use it for commercial use, no one would ever buy it elsewhere.
 

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if it's for the e-book then other than the look inside, you're wasting your time because whatever font you use, Amazon will change it to their font at publication, and in any case readers can the choose from a font of their preference available on their devices.

Regards print books, if the POD printer doesn't have the special font in its software for embedding, then it will change the font to one of their standard fonts.

I don't have a clue about the font you talk of.

According to Microsoft Word in this link, it would appear you're okay to use though I'm not sure you should take this guys word for it.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_word-mso_other-mso_mac2016/do-fonts-in-microsoft-word-require-a-license-for/c3fa5d86-8ed9-448a-bb88-690f9e372b7e
 

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catslover said:
My book is ready and I was thinking of publishing these days, but when I checked the license of the Palatino Linotype font (the one I chose for its publication), I see that it is not a font under the OFL license, which allows all use for free.

I have no problem with paying for a font license if this is necessary, generally, I prefer to use fonts under the OFL license because there is no ambiguity in their terms.

My book is already layout with this font and I don't want to have to change. Does anyone know if this font can be freely used for this purpose?
To be honest, I would worry about that when you've sold enough to raise eyebrows. I mean, once you've sold a few million copies, then the font designer might just want a cut, but until then they're not even going to notice.

Also, what was said before is true; if the font is for the inside of the book, Amazon are going to change it anyway. I actually used a lovely fancy font on the cover of one of my books and they changed it on the print version to something really boring. I was not impressed.
 

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Doglover said:
To be honest, I would worry about that when you've sold enough to raise eyebrows. I mean, once you've sold a few million copies, then the font designer might just want a cut, but until then they're not even going to notice.

Also, what was said before is true; if the font is for the inside of the book, Amazon are going to change it anyway. I actually used a lovely fancy font on the cover of one of my books and they changed it on the print version to something really boring. I was not impressed.
Yeah, I thought that was so for the print book and the eBook. The only way around it is to create an image of the font for the title page for insertion for it to stick. This is no problem for the print book if it's grayscaled, but it can look messy in an e-book as it will show in a white box if the reader likes to read with a black background and white fonts. Still, I doubt many do. The only problem with this as I can see, is that if you buy the license, usually it is only for your computer, not the printer's computer, so you could be leaving yourself open if you go on to sell millions of books. For the majority, that's not a reality.

As for Palentino Linotype. The name Palentino is trademarked and Linotype own the copyright. It was invented in 1949, so it's still within copyright and for companies that can be for 95 years in some countries. It's hard to figure out because typface, ie in metal form, can't be copyrighted. Most were created in the 1600s or so. The problem is that many fonts have been created for computers with vectors to copy these old standard fonts which are more recent and the design for computer use is subject to copyright as are new variants.

Unfortunately, Microsoft do not say, as far as I can see, apart from the link I posted, exactly what your rights are for the fonts available on Word and their other programs in relation to using their fonts for private use to write a book, which then goes on to be formatted for commercial use. They must have a licensing agreement of some kind or they wouldn't have them.

Maybe because it's a minefield that Amazon Kindle have commissioned the design their own exclusive Bookerly font that the use at conversion to eBooks. From what I can find Times New Roman, which was the standard for newsprint is public domain and free to use, which is probably why it's the go to font.

(Bookerly is a serif typeface designed by Dalton Maag as an exclusive font for reading on Amazon's Kindle devices and apps.)

It cost some of the major news media outlets in the US millions in a damages for court cases, for using a font for which they only had a license for one computer for commercial use, but used it on all their computers for creating TV captions.

I still don't a clue where you stand with the question the OP poses. The only comfort I take, is that we don't sell the books or the fonts. The other thing is that even if my license in Word is only for personal use to write and format my books, whoever prints the books will have to have a license for their computer of some kind I would imagine to make it legal. Besides, who are they going to sue, man-of-straw me or Amazon? Saying all that, I'm not an attorney.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Decon, sadly fonts licenses are a little more complicated.

Desktop licenses are sold by computer, enabling a number of computers to make use of the fonts on it. Microsoft word includes a desktop license for each of the fonts it includes, but not all of these fonts allow commercial use. In the case of Palatino, if you want to buy a desktop license you must pay $ 45 for 5 computers; but if you want to use it commercially, you must buy the license corresponding to the commercial use you are looking for.

For example, to use on a web page, linotype charges you $ 39 for every 250,000 visits that web page has. If you want to use palatino in a mobile phone application, linotype charges you $ 765 per app. And finally, if you want to use this font in a digital book, they charge you $ 90 per book.

You can check the price of the licenses on this here:
https://www.linotype.com/es/1574505/palatino-light-product.html?format=ot-ttf&branding=pro

License prices are only for a number of computers when it comes to desktop use, which is a form of personal use, but in relation to commercial use things change and sometimes get bizarre. The owner of the font can charge in any way he wants, by computer, by book, by visits to a web page, by megabyte, etc. It is also common for them to charge per unit for printing when the font is used printed on a t-shirt or on mug, this is usual the POD license; and when you use this type of license, it doesn't matter if the one who prints it is a factory in China, the license allows this; but the Chinese will not be able to use the font once the 5000 cups where (for example) printed/manufactured. They have to be limited to your order, and generally they request the proof that you enables you to make these impressions using someone else's font.

If you use the font of a small author, it may be that the license is limited to personal use (usually free), and commercial, which they usually charge a single fee that allows any commercial use for any number of commercial works, whatever the nature of such work is. But with large companies things change and they have a license for each possible use.

The cheapest / safest thing is to use a font under the OFL license. Almost all fonts in google fonts are under this license (some are under the Apache 2.0 license, which I am not familiar with, but I understand that it is also free and safe).

Why did I make this mistake if I know this?

Always, before doing any work (I am more linked to graphic design than to books), I check that the font I am using is in google fonts to know if it is under the OFL license. Before starting my book I did it, but the google fonts platform had changed. Now they not only show the fonts available on their site (almost all under the OFL license), but also other private fonts and give you a link to view them on their corresponding pages. When I looked for palatino in google fonts I saw that it was there, I assumed it was under the OFL license, when I finished my book I checked that again and I saw that it was not so, that google fonts has a link from the palatino font to the site fonts.com where they charge you a license of around 200usd.
 

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https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/fonts/font-faq

This is straight from the horses mouth regards fonts from microsoft. From reading this, it would appear as long as your Microsoft software is not home and student, but instead is business and professional, you are free to use their fonts for books for commercial use due to arrangements they have with the designers of the fonts.Obviously I don't know what arrangements other word processing software providers have.

It seems to me that you would not embed fonts for an ebook as the embedded font would contain all the information required to make alterations to the design of the font. The other reason is that the font would be fixed and not allow the reader to choose the font. Not sure how people who upload epubs deal with the fixed nature of the font if the license prohibits embedding.

However, for a print book, you would embed the font before upload as the finished product is printed and not digital and the font file is not available publicly to enable other designers to alter the details to make alterations to the design.and then copyright and monetise the new design. If there is a restriction on embedding, then that's the reason why

When I look at Amazon's recommendations for print, Palatino Linotype is a recommended font for body text along with TNR and garamond, etc

For legal reasons, if a font won't embed for a print book or an ebook, the it will be converted to a standard font as they won't have an arrangement for commercial use. This makes sense as they will only convert fonts in books where they are sure of the arrangement they have made for license terms. Knowing that designers of fonts can sue, Amazon wouldn't be so stupid as to allow publications that were not legally covered when they are the ones selling the product.

It would seem to me therefore that if you have home and student for Word, you would need to buy a commercial license, but those like me who use business and professional, then they would not need to buy a license. Again I'm not an attorney.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Decon said:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/fonts/font-faq

This is straight from the horses mouth regards fonts from microsoft. From reading this, it would appear as long as your Microsoft software is not home and student, but instead is business and professional, you are free to use their fonts for books for commercial use due to arrangements they have with the designers of the fonts.

It seems to me that you would not embed fonts for an ebook as the embedded font would contain all the information required to make alterations to the design of the font. The other reason is that the font would be fixed and not allow the reader to choose the font. Not sure how people who upload epubs deal with the fixed nature of the font if the license prohibits embedding.

However, for a print book, you would embed the font before upload as the finished product is printed and not digital and the font file is not available publicly to enable other designers to alter the details to make alterations to the design.and then copyright and monetise the new design. If there is a restriction on embedding, then that's the reason why

When I look at Amazon's recommendations for print, Palatino Linotype is a recommended font for body text along with TNR and garamond, etc

For legal reasons, if a font won't embed for a print book or an ebook, the it will be converted to a standard font as they won't have an arrangement for commercial use. This makes sense as they will only convert fonts in books where they are sure of the license terms.

It would seem to me therefore that if you have home and student for Word, you would need to buy a commercial license, but those like me who use business and professional, then they would not need to buy a license. Again I'm not an attorney.
This is good feedback about the issue.

I actually use WPS (free office), so i think i have no chance to use these fonts under proper license.

Considering the nature of this forum, more legal information on the use of fonts would be very welcome.
 

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You are way overthinking everything, but if you insist on having an open-source version of Palatino, then you can use the URW open-source version. It was previously called URW Palladio (and still is for the for-sale version) but in the latest open-source release it's called P052. Strange name, but it is a virtual clone of Palatino (as is Book Antiqua, by the way). P052 has an open-source license, allowing you do just about anything you want with it, other than resell it. You also probably shouldn't call it Palatino since Linotype (now Monotype) claims to have a registered trademark on the name. URW (now Monotype) claims a trademark on Palladio.

P052 has about 885 glyphs, which is about 200 fewer than Palatino Linotype that comes with Windows. It includes the Windows Glyph List but does not include true small caps or old style figures, which Palatino Linotype does. It has the entire Latin character set and appears to have a fairly large complement of Greek and Cyrillic.

P052 has four fonts: roman, italic, bold, and bold italic, and is part of the URW Core 35 open-source font group, which consists of 35 fonts in the following families:

    C059 (=Century Schoolbook)
    D050000L (=Zapf Dingbats)
    Nimbus Mono (=Courier New)
    Nimbus Roman (=Times New Roman)
    Nimbus Sans (=Helvetica), Nimbus Sans Narrow
    P052 (=Palatino, formerly Palladio at URW)
    URW Bookman
    URW Gothic (=Avant Garde)
    Z003 (=Zapf Calligraphic)

You can download the entire Core 35 package from any of a number of places, including github.
 
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