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Does writing to market mean I should make my gay romance a straight one?

10K views 69 replies 39 participants last post by  dakila  
#1 ·
I'm working on a YA PNR series and in a future book I want to feature 2 men who fall in love. I asked the beta readers who loved my Book 1 whether they would be interested in reading a gay romance in a future book.

Three of them said they don't support gay relationships and thus would not read the book.

Another three of them said though they have nothing against gay relationships, they themselves read only straight romance because that is what interests them.

Another two said they would love to read a gay romance.

It's not a huge sample but I definitely get the impression there's a bigger market for straight romance even in a genre like YA PNR.

After years of being told non-white characters don't sell, I'm now hearing readers clamor for diversity on blogs like this:

http://paperfury.com/2016-ya-genre-trend-predictions/

where they predicted in 2016, books would feature more diversity, people of color, and different sexual orientations.

and there's this book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25467698-the-love-that-split-the-world

In reviews of the above book, reviewer after reviewer praised the fact it has a dark-skinned protag:

"This book has diversity (for example, the main character is dark-skinned Native American) and feminism, two traits that are incredibly rare in YA literature."

They also liked learning something about Native American myths.

Another quote from another blog:

"We have not achieved diversity in romance, and we will not until the worlds depicted in the books we read look like the world we live in-a melting pot of colors and religions and sexual preferences and differently-abled people. No group should be relegated to a separate shelf in the book store. This is the WORLD of romance. One world, one love-cause in the end, it's all about the LOVE.

"Also, on that diversity thing…not only the characters, but for once, I'd like an author to show me what it means to have a constructive discussion about diversity and race." - See more at:

http://www.scandaliciousbookreviews.com/why-im-taking-a-breather-from-contemporary-romance/?utm_source=Scandalicious+Book+Reviews+Newsletter&utm_campaign=827f748f58-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9ec42af193-827f748f58-91190101#sthash.G6KZAJGd.dpuf

Perhaps the time has finally come when American readers actually want to read of other cultures, at any rate if they're interesting.

Even before I read all the above, I planned to show something of Indian culture in my story.

My 2 gay heroes:

Blaze is a 25 year old self-made American billionaire who is used to people throwing themselves at him for his money.

Ash is a 21 year old Hindu guy from India. He went to college in the US and then went to work for Blaze as a software engineer.

We learn something of him and his beliefs on various occasions such as when his 16 year old sister is rebelling against her culture and wants to become totally Americanized and he tells her:

"You come from the culture that produced the greatest human being the world has ever known. A man who faced down the most powerful nation on earth at the time without a weapon. A man who stood up to the might of the British Empire and won freedom for his people without violence.

"People from all over the world have come to India or studied our beliefs and traditions because they got something from our culture that they know they don't get from their own.

"Be very sure of what you are rejecting before you reject it. At least be aware of of what it actually means to be a Hindu and what India has offered the world before you decide to totally reject your heritage."

You get the idea. Ash is a Hindu who is proud of his Indian heritage. And the more Blaze learns about him, the more he realizes Ash is no gold-digger but someone whose mind he wants to explore and who he can't help falling in love with.

I see these 2 guys and their romance so clearly. I have a ton of stuff to write about them.

But there have been so many posts on this board about writing to market and about how romance is a genre where you need to stick to the tropes in order to sell.

And I think that in order to get the most readers, I would have to make Ash a woman. I would have to change some things about the way the romance goes but a lot can remain, such as Ash's beliefs and world views.

As a [straight] Indian woman, I feel I can write any Indian characters, straight or gay. I just really see these 2 as 2 gay men.

I also wanted to portray gay characters because I thought it would be great to give them as positive role models. I grew up in a Muslim country in the Middle East and I now live in India. All my life I've lived in places where homosexuality is illegal. I've seen what driving it underground does.

But as I said: the market. The fact that a few gay romances have cracked the top 100 doesn't mean much. I feel I'll get more readers if I make these 2 men a straight couple.

So what do you think I should do? make them gay or straight?

I wish I could be sure I'll get as many readers if I feature the gay romance but as people have been saying, its not about what you the writer wants; its about what the reader wants.
 
#2 ·
Presumably, though, gay romance is a niche market, whereas with a straight romance you would have way more competition.

Hopefully those who write in this genre will weigh in.

Is the focus of the story on the romance itself or on the clash of cultures? Or both? If you are just trying to tell a story that illuminates the differences and similarities between American and Indian culture, then I would lean towards changing it to a romance with broader appeal. But if the romance itself is most important, I would keep the characters as is. It all depends on what you want to achieve. 
 
#3 ·
You are not guaranteed readers no matter what you do. You could write an amazing book to market and still have it sink.

There are readers who want gay romance in their fiction. Granted, it's not as many as want to read straight romance, but from a purely crass commercial standpoint, yes, there's money to be made in the gay romance genre.

Ultimately if you don't write it from the heart, it probably won't sell anyway. (Sorry if that's too blunt.)

I see these 2 guys and their romance so clearly. I have a ton of stuff to write about them.

But there have been so many posts on this board about writing to market and about how romance is a genre where you need to stick to the tropes in order to sell.

And I think that in order to get the most readers, I would have to make Ash a woman. I would have to change some things about the way the romance goes but a lot can remain, such as Ash's beliefs and world views.

As a [straight] Indian woman, I feel I can write any Indian characters, straight or gay. I just really see these 2 as 2 gay men.

I also wanted to portray gay characters because I thought it would be great to give them as positive role models. I grew up in a Muslim country in the Middle East and I now live in India. All my life I've lived in places where homosexuality is illegal. I've seen what driving it underground does.

But as I said: the market. The fact that a few gay romances have cracked the top 100 doesn't mean much. I feel I'll get more readers if I make these 2 men a straight couple.

So what do you think I should do? make them gay or straight?

I wish I could be sure I'll get as many readers if I feature the gay romance but as people have been saying, its not about what you the writer wants; its about what the reader wants.
I don't see someone who wants to write this story to market. I see someone who is passionate and has a story to tell.

Don't worry about what some mystical reader wants. You're looking at it too broadly--as if anyone could please all readers. To be frank, most people who write straight romance aren't in the top 100 either. You can't judge the genre's health by that. Or even the ability to earn a living writing it.
 
#4 ·
If it were me, I'd write gay romance if I wanted to. I wouldn't pander to people who don't 'support' gay relationships. And a book with gay characters doesn't have to be about their romance, either.

Personally, I like to see a diverse range of characters in book, TV and film, representing the actual population rather than a narrow segment.
 
#5 ·
To answer the question in your subject line: No.

There is a substantial M/M romance market out there. Is it is as big as the M/F market? No. But that doesn't mean that you can't have success with a M/M book.

I mean, look, just because a lot of books haven't cracked the top 100 in romance overall doesn't mean that there's a tiny market for M/M romance. Romance as a genre is freaking huge. PNR as a subgenre of that is also freaking huge. There are entire small presses that cater exactly to the M/M market, and I'm pretty sure a quick search on the mighty Zon would show a bunch of indie titles, and subcategories full of M/M books. Goodreads probably has entire groups built around discussing and reading titles like this. It's a big enough market that there are entire subgenres that people target within it like contemporary New Adult, Steampunk or historical or whatever.

My suggestion for you would be to start doing some searches about what M/M titles are out on the market right now in your subgenres YA and Paranormal (Goodreads/Amazon searches/Small presses/etc...). See if you can find similar stuff to what you've specifically written, and whether they're selling decently, or whether you think you need to tweak your story by changing their ages from YA to New Adult or adding more or less heat to the romance or whatever. Also, find better beta readers - ones that actually understand and like M/M romance and are familiar readers of the genre. Because giving your book to betas that aren't interested in or are familiar with the genre you're writing is a surefire way to get a lot of terrible advice.

I mean, look, if you just want to target the broadest romance audience possible, you should probably just write Historical Regencies or Shifter Romances. But romance is such an enormous genre that there's room for success writing in one of the insane number of subcategories that already exist.
 
#6 ·
If your characters are in their 20s, it wouldn't be YA :) That tends to be for teenage-aged characters. It's contemporary romance with a gay romance. And don't feel you need to put sex in it either if you feel uncomfortable writing it, there are sweet gay romances too just as there are lots of subgenres like in straight romance: historical, fantasy, pnr, shifters, you name it.

Write the story you want to write, and if the characters happen to be gay, let them stay gay. There is a market for M/M and it's growing all the time. Allromance does very well for M/M romances, don't just restrict yourself to Amazon.
 
#7 ·
I think you misunderstand writing to market a little bit in that it doesn't mean that there is one big market of all readers and you write to it. It means you find an existing market and write what that subset of readers want. The problem with your informal survey is that you asked some random readers if they wanted a particular type of book, and the answers you got reflect their taste in the same way asking a handful of readers- hey, I have a book about a spaceship and robots, wanna read it?- is going to get you a similar response, ranging from absolutely to that's not my cup of tea.

There is an LGBT market in existence. Within it there are romance and fantasy and crime thrillers, etc., that feature gay and lesbian main characters, sometimes with a heavy emphasis on romance and sometimes not. If you want to write in this market, you need to write to THAT market and its appropriate subgenre. That means reading the top selling books in M/M romance and getting a feel for what sells to the people who already identify as liking M/M romance (as opposed to writing with the M/F market in mind and trying to get people who only like M/F romance to read it). It's not a huge market compared to M/F, but M/M romance has about 15k books in the category. I've been writing in an even smaller market, F/F romance, and my first book got the attention of that (very small) market in a way that would never have happened in contemporary M/F romance. So there are trade offs.

Bottom line, my advice is to study the M/M romance market and write a book that will fit in nicely within that world. Write it asking yourself is this what gay romance fans want, not is this what all romance fans want, and you should do well.
 
#8 ·
You asked readers of a straight romance if they would enjoy a gay romance. Wrong people to ask. There are whole groups on Goodreads who are voracious M/M readers. What I would do is write my gay and straight romances under different names, even if one simply used "Brenda Rose Lastname" and the other used "BR Lastname" to keep the books separate.
 
#9 ·
What's your priority? A larger pool of potential readers and higher income, or telling the story you want to tell while aiming it at the largest potential audience that story has?

If you want money, larger reader pool, pure commerciality, then you'll write het romance with two white people and strive to make the story a lot like several in the top 100 already. If this sounds glib or sarcastic, it's not. This is a method that can get you there.

If you want to write the story you want to write, you'll read stories that are similar to figure out what that audience wants and work to shape your story into something they're going to buy. How many changes you make will depend on how closely aligned with the market you want to be. Sadly, much like in fandom, two white guys trump a mixed couple or couple where they're both of another ethnicity. And covers with a white guy or white guys on the front beat covers with another ethnicity on the front. None of this means you shouldn't write whatever you want, but it helps to be aware of how things are so you can nail the market you choose to write for.

Interracial het romance, particularly white man/black woman, does better than interracial gay romance. Simple fact. How much does that matter to you?

If you can seriously consider changing a gay character to a woman, maybe het romance/YA is where you should be. If the character is interchangeable with another gender, then you don't know that market well enough, IMO. Of course, maybe that's not what you're saying. But that you asked this at all makes me believe you need to do a lot more reading if you want to write a book that sells in any genre.
 
#10 ·
HONOR THE STORY. When in doubt about the market, see rule #1. If you're not telling the story that's supposed to be told, in favor of writing what you think is "to market" - it will show. And you might be miserable doing it. Honor the story. Is it the best story with gay characters in it? Then listen to the characters. No matter what you write, you will piss someone off. It's okay, they will get over it and so will you.

It does sound like you're writing "new adult" rather than "young adult" - with characters in their 20's. In that case - check out the NA market. You'll find a different set of standards in NA romance than you would in straight-up contemporary romance.

Honestly, as one reader, the thing that most turns me off about what you describe is a billionaire who's 25 and NOT at least entertaining the idea of becoming Batman. That is downright unrealistic. :D
 
#11 ·
If your characters are gay why would you change them? They will not be happy if you force them to be what they are not. (The same thing applies in reverse. If they are straight, then you can't force them to be gay.)

I learned early on not to force my characters. I just sit quietly and listen and document their actions. We're all happier that way :)

ETA: the book in my signature has a gay couple (the H's brother and his partner). When I was writing it, the character revealed himself to be gay. I was very surprised when my PNR Beta readers asked for a book featuring the gay brother and his partner. There is a market for gay romance. Not sure if it would be YA though. I suppose it's all in how you handle it. Why not write it first?
 
#12 ·
Thanks, everyone. I know the ages are a bit old for YA but I figured it would be ok because most of my main characters are half human and half paranormal creatures. The heroine of Book 1 is 18 years old but the hero is thousands of years old. He went to meet Gandhi in South Africa shortly after Gandhi began his campaign of passive resistance there. One night my hero killed three white thugs who set upon Gandhi.

My white hero is hugely powerful but feels like nothing compared to people like Gandhi. He mentions: "…the most powerful people in the world have always been the ones who can influence millions without raising a fist…I've known kings and conquerors, dictators and world leaders. And the three most powerful men I ever met were Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King."

Yeah, so you can see it’s a bit different from the usual YA PNR. but I've had so many betas who said they loved it that I think there should be some market for it.

It does hit some of the tropes. NaĂŻve white girl who falls for powerful paranormal creature.

Of course the girl intends to devote her life to working for the poor and intends to go to India after college to do just that. so again, a bit different but again my betas loved her. she has a sense of humor and is snarky, which I guess helps.

So anyway I'm thinking since the hero or Book 1 is anyway millennia old, it should be ok that my gay guys are in their 20s. they do belong to the same paranormal species.

"Is the focus of the story on the romance itself or on the clash of cultures? Or both?"

Both. There's a lot of focus on the romance too.

For the past several months I have been checking out the Top 20 free gay romance list on Amazon and been reading quite a few. I even read a couple of the male pregnancy ones but I didn’t like them at all and I realized I don’t like shifter romance much. But of course I've been reading M/M books. I wouldn’t consider writing one without seeing how they're  done. I do like the contemporary ones the best, the ones with no paranormal elements. Actually much of my story has my gay characters interacting in our world, with not much that is paranormal happening, but in a future book they travel to another universe along with the rest of my cast and will get more heavily into the paranormal world.

The thing is that I don’t know that I can write this book as something totally separate from my main series. as I said, the characters all belong to the same world.

I HAVE considered writing it as a spin-off series. but again why would people who love to read M/M go out of their way to read a spin-off series when they might have no interest in the main series?

I don’t call the series New Adult since it doesn’t feature sex, and most readers seem to expect something steamy when they hear NA.

"And don't feel you need to put sex in it either if you feel uncomfortable writing it, there are sweet gay romances too just as there are lots of subgenres like in straight romance: historical, fantasy, pnr, shifters, you name it."

As I said I've been checking out the free list for months now and have come across no sweet gay romance at all. They all seem to have sex in them. perhaps I should check out the paid list but it made sense to read a lot of free stories first.

"I think you misunderstand writing to market a little bit in that it doesn't mean that there is one big market of all readers and you write to it. It means you find an existing market and write what that subset of readers want. The problem with your informal survey is that you asked some random readers if they wanted a particular type of book, and the answers you got reflect their taste in the same way asking a handful of readers- hey, I have a book about a spaceship and robots, wanna read it?- is going to get you a similar response, ranging from absolutely to that's not my cup of tea."

Well, as I said, it’s a series. I naturally asked the people who loved Book 1 in my series. I don’t want most of the people who loved Book 1 to stop reading the series because of the gay characters introduced in a later book.

That's part of the problem. if only women who love straight romance would pick up Book 1 of my series, I don’t know that I can then disappoint them by switching to an M/M in another book of the series.
 
#13 ·
More women read straight romance than gay romance, but that doesn't mean shifting your book to M/F would sell more books. There is also a lot more straight romance being written, so your book would have more competition for the readers' attention and dollars. Add in the fact that you didn't write the book you really wanted to write, and I'd suspect that your converted-to-M/F book would sell less than the M/M book you wanted to write in the first place.
 
#14 ·
1. You need to fix the font on your previous post- it's white and hard to see.
2. You are assuming your readers are all female who are interested in M/F romance. Some of them might go for a M/M romance. As I mentioned, several of my beta readers asked for a M/M romance because they loved the characters. In all my other books, they are all M/F and I don't have any gay characters.

I wouldn't write this book as part of your existing series. Do it as a standalone- so readers can decide if they want to read it or not. And if they choose not to, it won't affect the rest of your (straight) series.
 
#16 ·
Vidya said:
As I said I've been checking out the free list for months now and have come across no sweet gay romance at all. They all seem to have sex in them. perhaps I should check out the paid list but it made sense to read a lot of free stories first.
Ok, this is just my opinion, but I think Amazon's gay romance genre is getting gamed pretty hard lately by a lot of people who are trying to "write to market" and clogging up the list with things that are less than high quality. I would suggest going to Goodreads and seeing what's recommended there. Some of it will likely still be free. Visit Dreamspinner Press, Samhain, other reputable small presses, and check out popular indie authors like Jordan L. Hawk and Jordan Castillo Price.

But I don't think the best seller list on Amazon or the best free list is ALWAYS a good indicator of quality at this time in every way. AllRomanceEbooks, review blogs, Goodreads...basically anywhere BUT just the bestseller and free list on Amazon.

If most popular books are 1) written by authors that have popped up out of nowhere, and 2) are keyword stuffing like the world's gonna end, and 3) are probably paying people to download their books in KU, those aren't a good indicator of the genre. They're a good indicator of Amazon's Kindle Unlimited flaws. And yes, in my opinion, those flaws are being exploited right now. That's one reason I'm moving away from Kindle Unlimited until they fix some things.

Yes, there are popular and well-beloved books hitting the bestseller and free lists. But don't believe everything you see. (Does that sound like a conspiracy theory? Heh. Maybe it is.)
 
#17 ·
Do you want to earn a living and have money to spare? Write straight romance.

Do you want to write whatever you want? Write gay romance.

Gays are a micro-niche and not much money can be made doing that unless you hit it out of the ballpark and do massive promotion.
 
#18 ·
Vidya said:
if only women who love straight romance would pick up Book 1 of my series, I don't know that I can then disappoint them by switching to an M/M in another book of the series.
I would agree that it is not a good idea to start out a romance series as M/M or M/F and then switch in the middle of it. As a reader that would really throw me off. However, I don't really think there's a problem with an author writing two series at once or a spinoff book. Writers do that all the time. So if I were you, I'd make them two separate series that exist in a shared world with overlapping characters.

Vidya said:
I HAVE considered writing it as a spin-off series. but again why would people who love to read M/M go out of their way to read a spin-off series when they might have no interest in the main series?
Hmmm. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't really foresee two different series sharing characters and setting as being a problem as long as each series is written in a way so they can stand on their own without readers having to jump between the series to understand what's going on. As long as each series is branded separately and clearly by their covers, blurbs, ect... so it's easy for readers to pick out which one they're looking for, I don't see why this would be a problem.

Readers are intelligent and know what they're looking for. They'll pick out the ones they're interested in reading as long as you put the signposts out there for them to follow.
 
#19 ·
Maggie Brooke said:
Presumably, though, gay romance is a niche market, whereas with a straight romance you would have way more competition.
This is most of it. M/F romance, especially PNR and contemporary, are hugely competitive genres. M/M is less competitive but there is a lower ceiling. I know a few M/M writers who make good money and, generally, they are able to get away with higher prices (though I hear this is changing).

Most romance readers read only M/F or M/M, so it might be a good idea to pick a niche and stick with it.
 
#20 ·
In regards to how to market in because of the ages (if you're thinking of writing it as an M/M novel), I would advise marketing it as New Adult. New Adult is becoming one of the new hot sub-genres in the M/M scene. I know a lot of my friends (strict M/M readers) won't read YA, and since your characters are technically older...

It's good you're checking on Amazon for top sellers, but honestly I think (like Hsh said!) you don't want to rely on Amazon too much. Check out Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/genres/m-m-romance
A lot of me and my pals would rather support other outlets which give authors in our little niche market more in royalties, so we do a lot of our M/M book shopping on AllRomanceEbooks. (By us, I mean me and my friends, not all readers!)
I buy a lot of M/M romance books and I never go to Amazon for recs. Always Goodreads! I know most of my friends are the same. I would suggest picking up a few of those books to see what really works in the genre. One major problem MM readers have is when writers make mistake of writing like the het romance and MM romance genres are interchangeable basically by names and anatomy. The MM genre has different tropes from the het genre (I read both and can definitely tell!). Just make sure you don't treat one of your MCs who's a male as if he were a female just because he's gay.

That's part of the problem. if only women who love straight romance would pick up Book 1 of my series, I dont know that I can then disappoint them by switching to an M/M in another book of the series.
I think you mentioned it's the same series but (if M/M) new main characters? I don't think it would be a huge problem. A lot of authors I read do MF and MM romance, sometimes even in the same series. (Shout out to the lovely) Megan Erickson, for example. Her Gamers series featured MF couples and MM couples (separate books). Your Het readers will read the blurb, see MM isn't for them, and skip it, but at the same time you'll be using your book to reach a whole new world of readers (us in the MM genre).

And I have quite a few author friends who make their living from writing MM romance. :)

But when it comes down to it, like others have said, if you're seeing the book as being with two men, then write it with two men. You'll be doing yourself and your story more justice.
 
#22 ·
Princess Charming said:
Please don't skin me alive--or dead--lol, but why are (some) straight women reading M/M romance? Thanks!
Isn't that like asking why white people would read about people of color? People are people. Love is love. A good story with engaging characters is a good story with engaging characters.
 
#24 ·
Vidya,

My opinion might not be very popular on this forum but I don't think your novel will work. You can't write gay romance For the same reasons I couldn't write lesbian romance.

Once upon a time I read Mercedes Lackey's Magic Pawn novel. I was just a teenager but the whole book angered me because it felt so fake. It seemed to me that she wanted to write a novel with a male POV, but she couldn't figure out how to properly represent a straight male POV so she made the character gay. The protagonist came across way too feminine. Gay men aren't anything like what she represented in the novel.

Are you a better writer than Mercedes Lackey? Do you know what it means to be a gay man?

You're better off making one of your characters a woman. Or making both of them women since you'll be able to understand what it is like to be a woman more than a man. A gay romance novel will only get reads from men- and they will see through your lack of experience in a second and not be kind to you in the reviews.

 
G
#25 ·
mearle said:
Vidya,

My opinion might not be very popular on this forum but I don't think your novel will work. You can't write gay romance For the same reasons I couldn't write lesbian romance.

Once upon a time I read Mercedes Lackey's Magic Pawn novel. I was just a teenager but the whole book angered me because it felt so fake. It seemed to me that she wanted to write a novel with a male POV, but she couldn't figure out how to properly represent a straight male POV so she made the character gay. The protagonist came across way too feminine. Gay men aren't anything like what she represented in the novel.

Are you a better writer than Mercedes Lackey? Do you know what it means to be a gay man?

You're better off making one of your characters a woman. Or making both of them women since you'll be able to understand what it is like to be a woman more than a man. A gay romance novel will only get reads from men- and they will see through your lack of experience in a second and not be kind to you in the reviews.
I totally agree. I read bwwm romance and I can tell right away when the author is either not a black woman herself or when the author has not had an authentic relationship with a white man. That's why I don't like romance that includes the male's pov if the author is a woman. But I don't have that same preference outside of romance. Authenticity can mean everything sometimes, I guess.