E-book pricing/cost discussions - COMBINED thread

6575 Views 111 Replies 51 Participants Last post by Lursa (aka 9MMare), Jul 6, 2011

Lursa (aka 9MMare)

Discussion Starter · Jun 27, 2011

How does this work, is there any particular formula?

I find it disappointing that Kindle books are sometimes more expensive than (non-discounted) paperback prices.

Meaning, not old or discounted paperback prices, but current retail price for the paperback. To me, they should at least be the same, I cant see any reason why an e-book should be more...except profit margin naturally.

41 - 60 of 112 Posts

mooshie78

· #41 · Jun 30, 2011

Linjeakel said:
I don't think it's fair to penalise authors by giving them 1 star reviews because you disagree with the price set by the publishers. Reviews and the ratings should be based purely on what you think about the content of the book after you've read it.

Agree 100% with that.

If you don't like the price, then don't buy the book and write the publisher stating why you didn't buy the book. Maybe write the author too so they'll have incentive to put pressure on their publisher and/or choose a new publisher when their contract is up.

Don't give a false review and possibly turn others who may be ok with the price off from buying the book. That's dishonest and not fair to the author.

Elk

· #42 · Jun 30, 2011

Linjeakel said:
I don't think it's fair to penalise authors by giving them 1 star reviews because you disagree with the price set by the publishers.

I understand your point, but we base our evaluation of many products partially on whether they offer fair value. "Don't buy this book as a summer read as it just isn't worth it for the money" is a valid review after reading the book.

mooshie78

· #43 · Jun 30, 2011

Elk said:
I understand your point, but we base our evaluation of many products partially on whether they offer fair value. "Don't buy this book as a summer read as it just isn't worth it for the money" is a valid review after reading the book.

That's fine, but that's a different situation.

Actually reading a book and leaving a review saying it's not worth the money for the quality of the content is fine. That's 100% valid for the reason you note.

What's not fine is leaving a 1 star review for a book you haven't read just to protest the price.

MichelleR

· #44 · Jul 1, 2011

Elk said:
I understand your point, but we base our evaluation of many products partially on whether they offer fair value. "Don't buy this book as a summer read as it just isn't worth it for the money" is a valid review after reading the book.

If a review talks about the book, and you can see for yourself the size of the book and the price, why do you need someone to mark it down for that reason? A review is to tell people something they don't know. Reviewers get a hard time for reading part of a book and saying they couldn't finish, because of the very unlikely possibility they would have liked it more if they'd continued. "How do you know, if you haven't read it all?" Yet some people find it perfectly valid to rate a they have not read at all, and get others to do the same. By the logic of the previous argument this could have been the book that changed that person's life -- or not.

Being familiar with an item, in this case reading the book, is the price of admission. Heck, reading at least half the book. It's a mob mentality at work, school yard games, and I have no respect for it. I spend a lot of time here talking about reviews being for readers, but that doesn't mean and it will never mean that writers are to be needlessly trashed or harmed by people who haven't even given their work the respect of reading it. Writers are not acceptable collateral damage for people who are trying to punish someone else entirely.

Even if someone has read the book, no one else can judge for someone else what they're willing to spend.

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mooshie78

· #45 · Jul 1, 2011

MichelleR said:
If a review talks about the book, and you can see for yourself the size of the book and the price, why do you need someone to mark it down for that reason?

I don't think he mean the book may not be worth the price if it's too short. I think he mean the book may not be worth the price due to the quality.

For instance, a $14.99 e-book I end up thinking is good but not great, I'd probably end up rating lower than I would if it had been a $6.99 e-book. Whether I feel like I got my money's worth quality wise will affect my rating--even if just subconsciously--as feeling you didn't get your money's worth for something leaves a more bitter taste in your mouth.

So I don't have an issue with someone writing such a review. But I do have a big issue with people who haven't read a book leaving a low review due to price as that's just a dishonest practice and is just a deliberate attempt to screw up the review system.

Teinouji

· #46 · Jul 1, 2011

I rate books on content, not price. So, therefore, I'd never rate a book one star for price.

MichelleR

· #47 · Jul 1, 2011

mooshie78 said:
I don't think he mean the book may not be worth the price if it's too short. I think he mean the book may not be worth the price due to the quality.

For instance, a $14.99 e-book I end up thinking is good but not great, I'd probably end up rating lower than I would if it had been a $6.99 e-book. Whether I feel like I got my money's worth quality wise will affect my rating--even if just subconsciously--as feeling you didn't get your money's worth for something leaves a more bitter taste in your mouth.

So I don't have an issue with someone writing such a review. But I do have a big issue with people who haven't read a book leaving a low review due to price as that's just a dishonest practice and is just a deliberate attempt to screw up the review system.

I get the idea of someone thinking a book wasn't worth the money, but I'm going to discuss the book and let other people determine whether or not it seems worth it to them. To say, "for two dollars less, I'd give the book one star more," muddies the water.

mooshie78

· #48 · Jul 1, 2011

MichelleR said:
I get the idea of someone thinking a book wasn't worth the money, but I'm going to discuss the book and let other people determine whether or not it seems worth it to them. To say, "for two dollars less, I'd give the book one star more," muddies the water.

I kind of agree when it comes to the star ratings (I find those pretty pointless anyway). But I don't have a problem with the text of the review saying they didn't feel the book was good enough to warrant the price.

I just see a clear interaction of price and quality.

Think of food. Say you get a steak that's pretty good, but nothing spectacular. How likely are you going to be to eat there or recommend to it to others if it was a $35 meal? Probably not very as you could have gotten an excellent steak at a nicer restaurant for that price. But if it was a $12.99 meal, then that's a different story as it seems like a bit of a bargain. It's not as a good a steak as a pricey steakhouse, but was good for the money and is thus a nice option when wanting a steak but not wanting a pricey meal.

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MichelleR

· #49 · Jul 1, 2011

The price doesn't change the quality of the steak though -- it's still pretty good. It then becomes up to others to decide if they want to pay the money for it. We're on the same page in not having a problem with someone saying they didn't find something a good value, but it shouldn't be the sum total of the review and I don't think it should affect the rating.

Bigal-sa

· #50 · Jul 1, 2011

MichelleR said:
Even if someone has read the book, no one else can judge for someone else what they're willing to spend.

In exactly the same vein:
Even if someone has read the book, no one else can judge for someone else what they're willing to read.

Price can be just as important...

SSantore

· #51 · Jul 1, 2011

I read a lot, so price of e-books is important to me. I won't consider buying an e-book for the same amount (or even more!) than a paperback costs. I get a lot of .99 and 2.99 books. Of course, I also check out the free books to see if they look interesting.

Elk

· #52 · Jul 1, 2011

MichelleR said:
The price doesn't change the quality of the steak though -- it's still pretty good. It then becomes up to others to decide if they want to pay the money for it.

A fair position, but value is part of the decision making process of anything we buy. It is proper to downrate an unreasonably priced, but serviceable, product. Similarly, it is appropriate to upgrade an item that performs above its price point. The reviewer should however make clear that this is the case in each situation.

Books appear different as they are not fungible. One cannot readily replace book A with book B and easily obtain the same experience at a cheaper price. One relevant exception is when the Kindle version is priced higher than the paperback.

Meemo

· #53 · Jul 1, 2011

Giving stars isn't a "rating" - it's a "review". And I'm sorry, but giving a book you haven't read a one-star "review" makes about as much sense as the publisher's pricing the book higher than the paperback price. It's so unfair to the author (who probably has NO say in how the book is priced).

If you've read it and chose to read it in print because of the Kindle price, mention that in your review, but give the book an honest review based on content. If you read the Kindle version and found it wasn't worth the price, you can mention that in the review, but give the stars based on content as well as price, but not price compared to the print price. If you want to tag it as overpriced for Kindle to send the publisher a message, fine - knock yourself out. Better yet, if you feel strongly about it, do something constructive - contact the publisher to let them know you looked but chose not to buy because of the price. But don't "review" a book you haven't read. It's lazy, and it's dishonest. IMHO

As far as pricing goes - for me, I don't look at the print price - I don't care about the print price. I don't want to read a paper book these days. Yes, I have my price limit for eBooks. But for me the print price is a moot point, so why look? And frankly, if I did want to read print books, I'd go to the used book store or the library like I used to, so the print version would almost always be cheaper anyway. For me, ultimately - eBooks aren't about saving money. Yes, it was part of how I justified paying $359 for my first Kindle, back in the halcyon days before the agency model, but there are much more important reasons for reading on my eReaders.

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Jan Strnad

· #54 · Jul 1, 2011

For ages publishers have been raising the price of their books by a dollar, two dollars, three dollars because "the price of paper went up." Now they're trying to tell us, "Actually, the printing isn't much of the cost, and that's why ebooks cost as much as print books." Were they lying then, or are they lying now...or both?

What the publishers don't tell you when they cite low printing figures is that they print up several books for each one sold. The rest are returned for credit. They will often withhold royalties...as much as 50-60%...from authors "against returns," so it isn't stretching a point to say they expect to print and ship two books for every book sold. They also have to pay staff to process returns, and those books have to be shipped and warehoused.

If I were a publisher, I'd price the ebook about 20-25% less than the street price of the cheapest currently available print book. So if the hardback debuted at $25, widely available discounted to $14, an ebook price around $10-11 would make sense. When it goes to paperback, say at $9.00, the ebook would drop to $7. When the book goes out of print, the ebook competes with used book stores at $2.99.

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Mike D. aka jmiked

· #55 · Jul 1, 2011

Meemo said:
As far as pricing goes - for me, I don't look at the print price - I don't care about the print price.

Me, either.

Mike

SusanCassidy

· #56 · Jul 1, 2011

It is silly to rate a book one star because of the price, when reviews stay there forever, and prices change. I often wait until a book's price goes down before buying it. Doesn't change the content of the book.

mooshie78

· #57 · Jul 1, 2011

Meemo said:
As far as pricing goes - for me, I don't look at the print price - I don't care about the print price. I don't want to read a paper book these days. Yes, I have my price limit for eBooks. But for me the print price is a moot point, so why look? And frankly, if I did want to read print books, I'd go to the used book store or the library like I used to, so the print version would almost always be cheaper anyway. For me, ultimately - eBooks aren't about saving money. Yes, it was part of how I justified paying $359 for my first Kindle, back in the halcyon days before the agency model, but there are much more important reasons for reading on my eReaders.

For me I'm not anti-paper book. I actually prefer reading a paper book to an e-book. I just don't like buying paperbooks for leisure reading as I seldom re-read so I have to hassle with storing a book that just gather's dust or donating it.

So given that, I refuse to pay more for an e-book than a paperbook, so I usually look at both prices. At least for e-books that are more than $6-7. If the e-book is more I'll just wait for a drop or see if I can get the e-book or paperbook for the library.

It's not a matter of saving money. It's just a matter of principle of refusing to pay more for an e-book which costs the publisher less to put out per copy than a physical book.

JRTomlin

· #58 · Jul 1, 2011

mooshie78 said:
Agree 100% with that.

If you don't like the price, then don't buy the book and write the publisher stating why you didn't buy the book. Maybe write the author too so they'll have incentive to put pressure on their publisher and/or choose a new publisher when their contract is up.

Don't give a false review and possibly turn others who may be ok with the price off from buying the book. That's dishonest and not fair to the author.

I agree about false reviews, but the concept that authors (short of Stephen King or JK Rowling) have the power to pressure their publisher or just choose a new one stopped me dead in my tracks.

I wasn't sure whether to laugh or to cry. Really. Do you have ANY idea how many mid-list authors are being dropped by publishers? Being pressured to write *stuff* (evading Betsy and her taser of death) they have no desire to write--including some most people would consider "best sellers"?

The situation at the moment in "traditional" publishing for most authors (not all but the majority) is at best dire. I've talked to a couple of friends in the writers' community in Portland, a very large community, who are depressed beyond words.

Authors with VERY few exceptions have absolutely no influence over pricing.

As far as high costs, I have bought one eBook over $9.99 in the last year which is my pre-release order of GRR Martin's ADWD and it is cheaper than the hardcover that is being released at the same time. But much of the publisher policy is pure and simple price fixing and protectionist to try to keep DTB sales high.

If you object, don't buy them. Let the publisher know if you want, but the sales figures are beginning to speak for themselves.

Edit: For an education in publishing from a writer's perspective (and she is a successful one) try this post from Kristine Kathryn Rusch: http://kriswrites.com/2011/06/29/the-business-rusch-you-are-not-alone/

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MichelleR

· #59 · Jul 1, 2011

Elk said:
A fair position, but value is part of the decision making process of anything we buy. It is proper to downrate an unreasonably priced, but serviceable, product. Similarly, it is appropriate to upgrade an item that performs above its price point. The reviewer should however make clear that this is the case in each situation.

If anything is up for constant debate, it's how much a book should cost, with many people unwilling to compromise past a fixed point. (See: this thread.) As someone who is more flexible, I don't want someone using that in their ratings and forcing me to have to guess what the book would be had they not done that. On the other hand, people who do have that line, don't want a more flexible person assessing that way either. While you say the reviewer "should" make these things clear, not all will (or do) and the disclosure will most likely involve the words "too expensive" or "what you could expect for the money." Oh, and what price is that person talking about? Is it the same now as when he wrote it?

All other things being equal, the guy who bought the book when it first came out, the guy who bought it when the price got lowered by a few dollars, and the guy who got his copy when it became a freebie for a week, all assessing by the price they paid -- which can change again -- confuses the issue needlessly by entering into an area that is not their business -- what someone else should pay.

By this system, indies would get a great head start for being in the .99 to 2.99 range. It's hard to argue that .99 isn't a great price and it allows in one of my favorite "songs" -- You only paid a dollar, you're an idjit for expecting a professional effort. It's hard to say something isn't worth .99, so I prefer to stick to if it felt worth my time.

Established author with decades of experience would start out in the hole for 14.99, because a lot of people think that's too high no matter what. People, for the most part, just want to know if you think their favorite author is slipping. If you don't think he is, the potential buyer thinks you have similar sensibilities, and you talk about the actual book, the reader can figure out the pricing on her own. This is true whether the potential reader has a firm stance on pricing or not.

Oh, and how many reviewers are keeping up with the prices and fixing the ratings accordingly? If 1% do, it'll be a miracle. How about when it does it again? That's not even bringing in blogs. The price can change, but what's "inside" -- for the most part -- doesn't.

Like I said, I'll mention price in a review -- and possibly how my life would have been happier had I received the fancy doll house for Christmas when I was a kid (or now) -- but it doesn't figure into my final assessment.

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Elk

· #60 · Jul 1, 2011

Very thoughtful response.

MichelleR said:
I don't want someone using that in their ratings and forcing me to have to guess what the book would be had they not done that.

We have this quandary regardless . . . what if? What if the reviewer was never exposed to excellent writing? What if the reviewer has read only 30 books? We are always forced to guess as to the strength of any review.

One can only hope that the reviewer states upon what they are basing the review. If price is an issue, the specific price paid would indeed help as the price does often vary over time. Price is a legitimate factor however.

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