erotica question

2433 Views 33 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Honeybun, Jan 9, 2013

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · Jan 7, 2013

I just put out a nonconsent story via Amazon. I did not go with KDP so that I would have the option of going with one of the other retailers whenever I was ready to without having to wait for KDP to cycle off. However, the question just occurred to me, how receptive are the other retailers to nonconsent stories? Would I have problems getting the story published?

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

Annette_g

· #2 · Jan 7, 2013

I'm not sure, but I think allromance allow them in the erotica section as long as they have a warning, can't remember it exactly but they have a bit where you click a button to say if it has abuse for example. I can't remember if there was a non-consent button as well, but I think there may have been.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 7, 2013

Awesome info. Thanks! I don't have any experience with any of the other retailers yet. I've heard about AllRomance but it had completely slipped my mind.

KellyHarper

· #4 · Jan 7, 2013

A bit of an aside from your actual question : GET EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER RETAILERS!

If you're not going Select, spend the half-day it takes to get all of your works on every other site. It's rough going the first time around, but it's very easy once you familiarize yourself with them. You're losing sales by having it on Amazon exclusively w/o at least putting it in Select.

This is not to say that you should put all of your products in Select, just that you should be using every avenue available to you.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 7, 2013

KellyHarper said:
A bit of an aside from your actual question : GET EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER RETAILERS!

If you're not going Select, spend the half-day it takes to get all of your works on every other site. It's rough going the first time around, but it's very easy once you familiarize yourself with them. You're losing sales by having it on Amazon exclusively w/o at least putting it in Select.

This is not to say that you should put all of your products in Select, just that you should be using every avenue available to you.

LOL .. I suspect it will take me more than half a day.

However, I do plan to do just that later this month. I recall seeing an erotica writer post that B&N did excellent for erotica. I currently have 3 stories in Select but this last one, Jess, is not. I'll try to put out a few more shorts and then spend a day or two figuring out how to get them up with the other retailers. I've got a list going of retailers to check out. Here's my list:

PubIt (B&N)
Smashwords (provides an inbetween for people getting listed on the various sites, isn't an actual retailer)
ARe
Kobo
AllRomance
iTunes

In all honesty, I don't even know if everything in that list is a "retailer." Until this morning, I thought that Smashwords was a retailer and not just a service provider to help people get their work on the various sites. And, I just this second added iTunes. I am still operating with a significant learning curve. Guidance welcome!!!

KellyHarper

· #6 · Jan 7, 2013

Smashwords IS a retailer. They also provide in-between services.

I believe you mentioned before that you have Scrivener. Just make sure you save a copy of your blurb, excerpt, and author bio information in Scrivener for each of your products. You'll need those items when you upload to different sites. If you have Scrivener for Mac you can easily setup compilations for every different filetype you'll need for all of the retailers you just listed.

It takes me roughly 1.5 hours to publish 10 titles to all of those sites. It can be done, just get familiar with it

.

54706

· #7 · Jan 7, 2013

I'm a complete newb when it comes to erotica ... can you upload it to Smashwords? I heard something a while back about Paypal directing Smashwords not to allow some books due to their ban on pornographic product payments or some such First Amendment Killing talk

TexasGirl

· #8 · Jan 7, 2013

ARe and All Romance are the same thing.

I only sell well on Amazon so far, so the second and third ones I may pull and try Select to keep my momentum there rather than let it die.

Smashwords is fine with all erotica. Mark took a hard stance with PayPal and won.

All Romance is the one that caved, but mainly that is on PI.

KellyHarper

· #9 · Jan 7, 2013

ellecasey said:
I'm a complete newb when it comes to erotica ... can you upload it to Smashwords? I heard something a while back about Paypal directing Smashwords not to allow some books due to their ban on pornographic product payments or some such First Amendment Killing talk

I think this decision by Paypal was mostly reversed within a few days? Perhaps it was just greatly lessened. I remember it was a big issue... and then it wasn't.

This is before I was writing erotica and was only half paying attention.

Half might be an overstatement.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 7, 2013

Thank you everyone. This is great and very helpful information!

KellyHarper said:
Smashwords IS a retailer. They also provide in-between services.

I believe you mentioned before that you have Scrivener. Just make sure you save a copy of your blurb, excerpt, and author bio information in Scrivener for each of your products. You'll need those items when you upload to different sites. If you have Scrivener for Mac you can easily setup compilations for every different filetype you'll need for all of the retailers you just listed.

It takes me roughly 1.5 hours to publish 10 titles to all of those sites. It can be done, just get familiar with it .

10 books in 1.5 hours!!! WOW!!! Lol.. Consider me humbled!

Yes, I do use Scrivener and it is for Mac. I'm extremely glad that I've got the setup I do for the sake of compatibility with the different retailers.

ARe and All Romance are the same

lol... yep, noob right here.

AnitaDobs

· #11 · Jan 7, 2013

Smashwords will publish anything and everything. Including stuff with furry beasts (and no, I don't write any of that stuff before you ask, tentacles are my limit... oh, the odd werewolf too, before the change.)

But just because Smash publishes it on their site, doesn't mean that their distribution network will accept it. i.e Apple, B&N and so on. Especially the case with swear words in the title and non-consent (although I'm sure a few slip through the net on occasion.)

Amazon, as far as I remember, does not allow non-consent, because that would be rape. That's not to say it won't get through, but technically speaking it shouldn't.

Dubious consent is generally allowed, as in...

"No, oh no, I don't want it."

"You will submit, whether you like it or not."

"Oh my, it's so big! But I don't think I can get it... OH! How dare you!"

"You like it don't you, say you want it!"

"No, no!...............yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss!!!!"

That kind of thing.

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AndreSanThomas

· #12 · Jan 7, 2013

You're going to have problems.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 7, 2013

Ya, I figured they'd hold to their rule tighter. Anyone read Jill Knights "Violating" series? Wow... I don't know how she's getting them through. I've seen them on Amazon but haven't looked in any of the other venues. I'm guessing it has something to do with how she is handling the actual moment of penetration. So, that's what I tried to do with mine. Mine's actually not that bad, IMO. The girl wants him but is overwhelmed that it's not happening in the way she had imagined it would. However, it is currently under "Review." But, it's still live for sales. Fingers crossed because it's my intent to do a series that ties all the stories together with a finishing story that gives the power back to the girls. ... However, I will admit, I nearly didn't finish Jess. Writing it was a lot more difficult than I anticipated.

D.L. Shutter

· #14 · Jan 7, 2013

I'd be curious as to some of the ladies thoughts on non-consent stories. Obviously, it would depend on the actual content and there's a big difference between "Abducted by the Hunky Billionairre" and "Forcing the Prison Nurse" but depending on your views it's either a wide or a narrow spectrum.

And yes, "Violating" looks very much over the lines that Amazon has set and enforced. Interesting.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 7, 2013

It's a challenging topic. But, the stories sell - big time (I think and hope, per my limited research on the subgenre). And, its buyers are both men and women. I suspect (but don't know) that, depending on how the particular story is approached, that, in some cases, the buyers of a nonconsent story are more women than men. Selena Kitt wrote a very interesting description of the subgenre topics in her blog. She described the nonconsent subgenre as an exploration of power (generally the guy having it) and loss of control (generally the woman). Approaching the topic as an exploration of those needs and emotions, I feel that it is possible to take the reader on a journey that provides them with an outlet that they don't have in their daily life. I don't think the subgenre is truly about sex. Leap frogging off of and paraphrasing what Selena Kitt expressed in her blog, I feel that sex is more so just the most common (and cathartic) method for those elements to be explored.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jan 7, 2013

Just to take what I was saying in my earlier post a little further, here are two scenarios:

You're a woman with three kids and a husband who is clueless about how much effort it takes to keep the home moving forward. If someone needs something, the first word out of their mouth is "Mom!" or "Honey!" (if the husband). Everything seems to fall to her shoulders every day. She craves a few mental moments where she doesn't have to be in control of what's happening and to protect herself from her must-be-in-control personality, she craves a mental moment where she doesn't even have the option of being in control.

***

A guy is stuck in middle management and has been for the past ten years. It's not looking like he's going to get promoted any time soon. Things are rough for him. He's constantly in a position of having to hold his tongue and curtail his viewpoints. Every day he leaves work drained feeling like he's gotten bent over and thoroughly done over. He feel impotent as a man while he's at work - inconsequential, unimportant, overlooked, not heard. He feels like he has no power over his life and where it is going.

***

In both cases, those two people might seek out the mental release they crave from their realities through a nonconsent story. Those examples are extreme. I don't mean to limit the readership audience to those two scenarios.

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Shelley K

· #17 · Jan 7, 2013

Ada O'Flaherty said:
I just put out a nonconsent story via Amazon. I did not go with KDP so that I would have the option of going with one of the other retailers whenever I was ready to without having to wait for KDP to cycle off. However, the question just occurred to me, how receptive are the other retailers to nonconsent stories? Would I have problems getting the story published?

First of all KDP is the arm of Amazon that allows you self-publish. You did use KDP. KDP Select is the one that requires exclusivity. You didn't go with that, but you are most certainly in KDP.

Nonconsent sometimes gets blocked at Amazon, all depending in how it's packaged, how the blurb reads and the general tone of the thing.

Smashwords, Barnes & Noble and Kobo don't block it as a general rule, so you're good to go with those.

ARe does not want it. You might get it through, but you're also risking your entire ARe account if someone complains/they catch it/they get a wild hair.

If you use Smashwords for Apple, it probably won't ever show up on iTunes, either.

60865

· #18 · Jan 7, 2013

I think it's all romance that has a "flame" menu like the spice level in a restaurant.
I remember the last level is very hot with actions that some readers would find objectionable.
Moderate "non consent" (as described above) could go in that category.

D.L. Shutter

· #19 · Jan 7, 2013

Ada

Thanks for the very thorough and insightful response. Lots of food for thought.

D.L.

Honeybun

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jan 7, 2013

shelleyo1 said:
First of all KDP is the arm of Amazon that allows you self-publish. You did use KDP. KDP Select is the one that requires exclusivity. You didn't go with that, but you are most certainly in KDP.

Nonconsent sometimes gets blocked at Amazon, all depending in how it's packaged, how the blurb reads and the general tone of the thing.

Smashwords, Barnes & Noble and Kobo don't block it as a general rule, so you're good to go with those.

ARe does not want it. You might get it through, but you're also risking your entire ARe account if someone complains/they catch it/they get a wild hair.

If you use Smashwords for Apple, it probably won't ever show up on iTunes, either.

Good breakdown of the acceptability on the other sites. Thanks, Shelley!

And, yes, I caught that, too, as the thread move on. I did not opt into Select (versus using "KDP").

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