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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
artofstu said:
In the above example, you use paranormal, love, romance more than once. I was under the impression that once you use a word, you don't need to use it again, that when someone searches for a term, Amazon will pull from any of the words you've put in your keywords. This seems to be the case whenever I've done test searches using a combination of words that aren't necessarily in the same keyword group. Anyone else have an insight on this?
To be honest, I don't know the answer because Amazon won't tell us. So I do it anyway to hedge my bets. I would rather waste a few words and be sure of showing up than not bother repeating and then not showing up. Also I do try to mix and match words that mean the same thing, again to ensure covering all bases: EG: Romantic comedy, humorous romance, funny humor humour love romantic. That kind of thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
jakedfw said:
This makes me scratch my head, not because you are wrong Evenstar, but because it effectively means that there is no real keyword limit, despite what Amazon says about it being limited to 7.

In other words, is this a bug that Amazon will fix someday?
There is still a limit. You can only have so many words in each 'keyword' and only so many characters over all before it cuts you off. I find about five or six words per 'keyword' to be about right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
garam81 said:
I typed in "Paranormal romance witch ghost zombie" and your book (Halloween Magic and Mayhem) was the first to appear on the page.

Great post, Evenstar. Previously, I've been putting in the one-word keywords but now I'm doing as you suggest and seeing what is popular but not too popular.

For instance, for my "Neighbourhood Witch" book, I tried typing in Paranormal Romance Cursed Witch into Amazon.com/Kindle Store and only 36 results show up. Is this too few?
In my opinion it is too few. But really it is not about how many results come up but how popular the search is. Less results can be a very good thing in a niche genre, but it is more likely that it means that your search term is not used much and you probably should re-think it.

Amazon will help you with this - as you start typing in a search, it will give you popular search terms that other people use. Those are the ones you want in your keywords! (Or do as I do and have both ;) )
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Claire Frank said:
Lots of food for thought here - thanks for taking the time to post this, Evenstar!

My question is this: when it comes to using keywords to getting into categories, do you think you can use keyword stuffing AND still get into the right (smaller) categories if the keyword is part of a string of keywords?

For example: to get into Fantasy>Swords and Sorcery, you need to use keywords like sword, sorcery, magic and quest. Could you stuff those into one and still get into the right category? So instead of using those as separate keywords, is putting a keyword that is "sword sorcery magic quest," going to still get you into the Swords and Sorcery category? Does anyone know?
No one knows for sure, but according to my research and what others have said, then yes, it should still get you into that category just so long as the term is there.
 

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I don't know about you, but I think there's something strange about doing a search for a particular type of book and having the results show Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children come up within five slots of gay erotica. I feel like most people searching for "teen horror books" aren't looking for the latter. Probably. I think something's broken here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
David S. said:
It's fairly easy to test. Just type some stuff in the Amazon search box and see what comes up.

Using this string of keywords:

paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love

paranormal romance 44,523
romance paranormal 44,499
"paranormal romance" 22,032
"romance paranormal" 27,391
paranormal 73,525
romance 330,643

witch 13,490
werewolf 10,621
witch werewolf 983
werewolf witch 983
"werewolf witch" 559
"witch werewolf" 28

shifter 8,749
love 176,723
shifter love 1,545
"shifter love" 40

witch shifter 852
"witch shifter" 9

werewolf romance 6,451
"werewolf romance" 1,594

Any one word will hit every book that uses that word in their keywords, and a few other places, so a lot of hits (romance).

Combine two words and the hits are dramatically reduced (paranormal romance) because it has to hit both words.

Put quotes around those two words and it has to hit both words in consecutive order ("paranormal romance" or "romance paranormal"), reducing the number of hits.

The longer the string of consecutive words the user enters, especially if they are enclosed in quotes, the smaller the number of hits. You can use this to your advantage, or it can kill you.
And I learned something new!! Thanks David. I was unaware of being able to put quotes around phrases. I have been using a dash like first-kiss first-love to basically achieve the same thing, but I didn't know if it was effective or not, it seems to work though as I can get to my books using those search terms along side others.
I totally agree though that you need to be careful about narrowing down your categories and searches, it can certainly make you disappear, but on the other hand it is more likely to get you to the top of a particular category which will give you a boost. Just experiment!

I would also like to add that I didn't actually copy and paste my actual keywords, I just typed the post with a vague memory of what they were, so if I'm not showing up using one of the search terms I mentioned then that is why!
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
kalel said:
You also have to be careful that you are not OVERSTUFFING as amazon will clamp down on that and remember they use those keyword to determine sub categories. If you stuff tons of keywords in there that are NOTHING to do with your book, you are going to be in a heap of trouble from Amazon and probably readers.

I can see everyone running now and stuffing random useless keywords and then a month later seeing amazon remove that like they did with tagging. SLAPS HEAD!!!
Yes. It is a worry that people stuff in keywords that are not relevant to their books just to get the hits, and rather worrying that gay erotica was found on boys teen horror. But I am fairly sure that Amazon do try to control it.

From my own experience: A few reviewers said The Flirting Games is quite similar to Harry Potter but without the magic. So I tried adding Harry Potter to my keywords thinking I might pick up some fans of fan-fiction, I got slapped immediately in the review process. And asked to remove those words before the book would be able to pass review. I thought that was fair enough, it was just an experiment and it's good to know that Amazon are at least attempting to monitor the keywords I'm using, and are therefore (I hope) taking note of the good ones too.
 

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Monique said:
Yeah, keep punctuation and other titles/authors out of your keywords.

Also, unless something has changed, keywords in your description are meaningless.
Something has changed then. I accidentally found my way into a superhero category when I used the word hero in my description. It went something like this: "Shima is a hero of great renown, and has survived many battles..."

I wrote that as part of my description, and bang, I'm in a superhero category! I didn't choose any keywords using hero. It only appears in the blurb. I knew Google and Kobo used the description for its searches, I learned that Amazon searches on titles, series titles, sub titles FIRST, but does seem to judge descriptions as well. I think they're considered of lesser importance, and the algo gives them less weight than titles, but they ARE used.
 

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Mark E. Cooper said:
Something has changed then. I accidentally found my way into a superhero category when I used the word hero in my description. It went something like this: "Shima is a hero of great renown, and has survived many battles..."

I wrote that as part of my description, and bang, I'm in a superhero category! I didn't choose any keywords using hero. It only appears in the blurb. I knew Google and Kobo used the description for its searches, I learned that Amazon searches on titles, series titles, sub titles FIRST, but does seem to judge descriptions as well. I think they're considered of lesser importance, and the algo gives them less weight than titles, but they ARE used.
What book is this?
 

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Monique said:
What book is this?
It was Operation Oracle, but like I say, my book isn't a super hero book. I changed the blurb and now have these cats (the superhero went away when I changed the blurb)

Books > Literature & Fiction
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alien Invasion
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Exploration
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > First Contact
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Galactic Empire
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Military > Space Fleet
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Military > Space Marine
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Space Opera
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alien Invasion
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > First Contact
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Galactic Empire
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Military > Space Fleet
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Military > Space Marine
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Space Exploration
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Space Opera
 

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Intersting. I think it's v possible (probable?) that keywords in the description can lead to categories, but perhaps are not searchable. For instance, Burgton should bring up your book if the description is searchable, but it doesn't.
 

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There's no need to include any commas at all in KDP.  ;D

This gives you more characters for words and eliminates the worry about needing to repeat words between different commas. I heard we got 350 characters. Someone else said 400. It will say you have 6 keywords left, but just ignore that.

Createspace makes you use commas by limiting the number of words between them.
 

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Cherise Kelley said:
There's no need to include any commas at all in KDP. ;D

This gives you more characters for words and eliminates the worry about needing to repeat words between different commas. I heard we got 350 characters. Someone else said 400. It will say you have 6 keywords left, but just ignore that.

Createspace makes you use commas by limiting the number of words between them.
I'm not sure whether I've got this - but if you don't use the commas to separate your keywords - wouldn't that just give you one long (and very specific) search string?

I thought from what was said earlier in the thread that, the more words you use in a search, the more it narrows down. And likewise with keywords?
 

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JessieCar said:
I'm not sure whether I've got this - but if you don't use the commas to separate your keywords - wouldn't that just give you one long (and very specific) search string?

I thought from what was said earlier in the thread that, the more words you use in a search, the more it narrows down. And likewise with keywords?
I don't think it matters what order the words are in, so it wouldn't be specific.
 

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jakedfw said:
I need to do more research, because my key question is this: Are searches based on your keywords exact matches, full word matches, or just any of the words in the list needed to match. ...
I've tested this and it seems to me word order is irrelevant. Say you have seven extended phrases for your keywords and someone searches the last word of one and the first word of another, your book will still show up.
 
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