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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

there has been awesome stuff going on with Mark Dawson's thread about FB ads and email list growth.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,207885.25.html

There are more ways to test FB ads and they have been working better for me than advertising for people who are only targeted by interests (note tho, I haven't found super great Interests to target that are very related to what I was promoting so authors targeting similar authors have a bit of an advantage here):

1. Lookalike Audiences made from your Email List - if you have a list of over 1000 people (the more the better, if you have only few hundred, that might not be enough for FB to come up with great audience), export it as a CSV file and then go to Facebook, it's Ads Manager and go to Audience tab. Create a new Lookalike audience and import that CSV file. FB will create a new audience that will be similar to those on your email list.

Run ads to them and see how it works out. The audience size I got was over 2 mil.

2. Adding Interest filtering to Lookalike Audience - once you have the audience you can also make it more targeted by adding the Interests - similar authors etc, just like Mark Dawson did etc

That made audience size smaller - about 700 000 out of 2 mil initially.

2. LA + Friends of Friends advertising - I also took that previously created audience and chose to advertise only to Friends of people who are connected to my Fan page.

This cuts the audience down most, towards most related to your current fans. For me the amount of folks was about 36k out of 2 Mil audience.

3. LA + FoF + Interests - another one, best one for me, was combining 3 of these - the lookalike audience, Friends of Friends and then also picking few certain interests. That really makes the audience smaller and it went from 2 mil to about 20k.

Again, my targeted Interests are way way broader than what authors can target. My audience interest was Writer. Which had 50mil people so that is very very broad. Too broad. Targeting readers of certain author seems more targeted and thus, better. So maybe for some it's best to do a Lookalike audience and only target those. Or maybe they need all 3 tested.

Other observations:

1. I had to avoid folks under 25 years of age. Test your age limits too.
2. No Right side ads.
3. Mobile ads aren't great for sign ups so those might be turned off too if you advertise for email sign ups only. For advertising content like an article or post, Mobile works well enough.
4. If you're gaining Fanpage Likes, that means in future, your Friends of Friends ads would be getting better and a bit bigger audience. I think this increase engagement as this is 'social proof' - if your friends like some Fan page then you can trust it a bit more. So I count FB Likes as good thing from these ads.

So, these are my tests, your mileage will vary. Would be great to hear if you've already tried Lookalike Audience!

P.S. Just saw that you can create Lookalike Audiences out of your Website visitors or Fan page Fans. I haven't tested those yet myself tho.
 

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RBC said:
Hi,

there has been awesome stuff going on with Mark Dawson's thread about FB ads and email list growth.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,207885.25.html

There are more ways to test FB ads and they have been working better for me than advertising for people who are only targeted by interests (note tho, I haven't found super great Interests to target that are very related to what I was promoting so authors targeting similar authors have a bit of an advantage here):

1. Lookalike Audiences made from your Email List - if you have a list of over 1000 people (the more the better, if you have only few hundred, that might not be enough for FB to come up with great audience), export it as a CSV file and then go to Facebook, it's Ads Manager and go to Audience tab. Create a new Lookalike audience and import that CSV file. FB will create a new audience that will be similar to those on your email list.

Run ads to them and see how it works out. The audience size I got was over 2 mil.

2. Adding Interest filtering to Lookalike Audience - once you have the audience you can also make it more targeted by adding the Interests - similar authors etc, just like Mark Dawson did etc

That made audience size smaller - about 700 000 out of 2 mil initially.

2. LA + Friends of Friends advertising - I also took that previously created audience and chose to advertise only to Friends of people who are connected to my Fan page.

This cuts the audience down most, towards most related to your current fans. For me the amount of folks was about 36k out of 2 Mil audience.

3. LA + FoF + Interests - another one, best one for me, was combining 3 of these - the lookalike audience, Friends of Friends and then also picking few certain interests. That really makes the audience smaller and it went from 2 mil to about 20k.

Again, my targeted Interests are way way broader than what authors can target. My audience interest was Writer. Which had 50mil people so that is very very broad. Too broad. Targeting readers of certain author seems more targeted and thus, better. So maybe for some it's best to do a Lookalike audience and only target those. Or maybe they need all 3 tested.

Other observations:

1. I had to avoid folks under 25 years of age. Test your age limits too.
2. No Right side ads.
3. Mobile ads aren't great for sign ups so those might be turned off too if you advertise for email sign ups only. For advertising content like an article or post, Mobile works well enough.
4. If you're gaining Fanpage Likes, that means in future, your Friends of Friends ads would be getting better and a bit bigger audience. I think this increase engagement as this is 'social proof' - if your friends like some Fan page then you can trust it a bit more. So I count FB Likes as good thing from these ads.

So, these are my tests, your mileage will vary. Would be great to hear if you've already tried Lookalike Audience!

P.S. Just saw that you can create Lookalike Audiences out of your Website visitors or Fan page Fans. I haven't tested those yet myself tho.
This is what I have been doing. I now add the right side adverts, but not to get clicks. It's weird, but by taking out the English language and adding right side adverts in, my cost per click dropped. I pay 8 English pennies per subscription now. My mailing list is growing by 60 a day now, where it used to be around 8 to 10 a day. I still can't sell my boxset through adverts though.
 

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Mark E. Cooper said:
This is what I have been doing. I now add the right side adverts, but not to get clicks. It's weird, but by taking out the English language and adding right side adverts in, my cost per click dropped. I pay 8 English pennies per subscription now. My mailing list is growing by 60 a day now, where it used to be around 8 to 10 a day. I still can't sell my boxset through adverts though.
Mark,

You also offer free books to new subscribers, right?
 

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I started the process of creating a FB ad, but was stymied by the "20% text" rule. Size wasn't an issue as I was using Canva's FB ad template, but using a book cover or any kind of text beyond a couple of words, made the image break the rule. Does anyone have some pointers on creating the image so it works for FB ads?
 

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MaryMcDonald said:
I started the process of creating a FB ad, but was stymied by the "20% text" rule. Size wasn't an issue as I was using Canva's FB ad template, but using a book cover or any kind of text beyond a couple of words, made the image break the rule. Does anyone have some pointers on creating the image so it works for FB ads?
You need to do this: In photoshop create a new file 1200 x 628 Add a background image and make it 40% opacity. Then grab your cover files and lay them in at 500px, 300px, and 300px high. You'll get something like the pic below. Check the entire thing and move the text so that it doesn't overlap more than 4 boxes in the overlay tool.



EDIT: By text I mean the white text. The covers are not classed as text anymore.

Edited to shrink image to accommodate those using mobile devices or older monitors. Thanks for understanding. --Betsy
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Glad this go bumped!

@Mary, image should be mostly visually impactful and then text can be read on the actual post text. Main thing for image is to get attention not necessarily inform. The rule about 20% is dumb.. and sometimes looks like they miscalculate it but it is what it is.
 

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Mark E. Cooper said:
You need to do this: In photoshop create a new file 1200 x 628 Add a background image and make it 40% opacity. Then grab your cover files and lay them in at 500px, 300px, and 300px high. You'll get something like the pic below. Check the entire thing and move the text so that it doesn't overlap more than 4 boxes in the overlay tool.



EDIT: By text I mean the white text. The covers are not classed as text anymore.
Just to be sure I understand--by putting a layer over the text in the image, it's no longer 'seen' as text by FB? Or has FB changed their policy about bookcovers being part of that 20% rule? Because I was down to barebones text and still got dinged because of the title/author/tagline on the cover of my book.

Edited to shrink image to accommodate those using mobile devices or older monitors. Thanks for understanding. --Betsy
 

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As an overly cautious person, I'm worried about number 1.  (Lookalike Audiences made from your Email List)


Not all of the people on that list will be subscribed to Facebook.  I promise my email list that I won't share their data, and as a reader would have a big problem with my email getting sent to another website for any reason...
 

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Wow, awesome info. Thanks a bunch. The problem for me is that I could spend endless hours trying all sorts of thing, reading up on all sorts of strategies, trying to just keep up with everything, but I would not have any time left to actually get anything else done. :(

he first problem for me is building en email list. I have 15 books out and a reader email list that is ten names long. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
JeanetteRaleigh said:
As an overly cautious person, I'm worried about number 1. (Lookalike Audiences made from your Email List)

Not all of the people on that list will be subscribed to Facebook. I promise my email list that I won't share their data, and as a reader would have a big problem with my email getting sent to another website for any reason...
Those emails are not used for sending them info, but for finding how the interests match etc and finding new people that have similar interests.

Don't have to do it if you don't want to anyhow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Guido Henkel said:
Wow, awesome info. Thanks a bunch. The problem for me is that I could spend endless hours trying all sorts of thing, reading up on all sorts of strategies, trying to just keep up with everything, but I would not have any time left to actually get anything else done. :(

he first problem for me is building en email list. I have 15 books out and a reader email list that is ten names long. LOL
You're welcome. I have similar issue, I get overwhelmed if I don't write down a short step-by-step thing to do in next 30-90 days. There is always more stuff to read but if you do nothing then you wasted that time you were reading...

Have you set up the website to feature email list sign up prominently? If not on homepage, then 'landing page' that is separate and features email over anything else. Also, are your books set up so that right after readers finish reading a book, the first thing they see if the page in the book that promotes email sign up. Not page with lots of acknowledgments and one line which mentions they could sign up for your email list.

If these two are taken care off, then start FB ads and promote the giveaway book.
 

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How much are you paying per click?

Now that I have a longer backlist I'm thinking of re-evaluating Facebook ads. One hundred clicks is probably worth more to me now that I have a longer "tail". I haven't figured out what that is yet, I think it will take at least 4 months after my last release for the "new release" mojo to subside, and for me to have genuine sell-thru numbers for it.
 

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Thanks for starting this thread, RBC. Mark Dawson's FB thread is amazing but it's gotten so long, it's hard to drill down on specifics.

I managed to create a few lookalike audiences using my puny mailing list. It's good to know those subscribers won't be hassled with ads...that it's only used to create a group with similar interests.

My first couple attempts at using those audiences for ads failed because I think my targets were too big, so I'm trying to add more interests as you suggest to get my target under 10K.

We'll see if that helps.

And thanks to "the other" Mark too for all your help. :)
 

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The 20% rule does not apply if your picture is of your product, so book covers are exempt.

Allowed in the 20% text policy:

Pictures of products that include text on the actual product
Photos of products in real situations or photos of products with a background
https://www.facebook.com/help/468870969814641

However, book covers often get flagged anyway. And then one has to email Facebook and pointing out the error of their ways in order to get it fixed.
 

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Advertising on FB is a challenge for me, but one I'm going to have to embrace to promote my Zephyr books I think!

W
 

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MaryMcDonald said:
Just to be sure I understand--by putting a layer over the text in the image, it's no longer 'seen' as text by FB? Or has FB changed their policy about bookcovers being part of that 20% rule? Because I was down to barebones text and still got dinged because of the title/author/tagline on the cover of my book.
No. Book cover typography isn't considered text when they are part of my adverts (as seen above). Nothing to do with layers or opacity. Opacity is just to make the cover stand out over the background. I used to get dinged for titles etc. I clicked the review thing, and said the image is a book cover and represents the item being advertised. They never ding me now.
 

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MaryMcDonald said:
I started the process of creating a FB ad, but was stymied by the "20% text" rule. Size wasn't an issue as I was using Canva's FB ad template, but using a book cover or any kind of text beyond a couple of words, made the image break the rule. Does anyone have some pointers on creating the image so it works for FB ads?
I use book covers all the time in my advertising. I turn them into 3-d books on another background (usually to one side or another) and then add in price centered vertical and horizontal. Facebook then considers the book to be part of the image and doesn't count the text, they only count the text for the price.
 
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