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Discussion Starter #1
Ii almost never see a question or discussion involving craft. There are no discussions about hooks, sentence length, echos, plot twists, passive vs. active tense, showing vs. telling, prologues,  etc. Why is that? This not to suggest that there is anything wrong with the topics which are discussed. Just curious, not critical.
 

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Page 6  on here.
 

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I always see the kboards as more business-oriented, rather than geared toward craft. I don't know why that is. If you're looking for a place where there's more discussion about craft, you might try AbsoluteWrite.
 

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Dactyl said:
Ii almost never see a question or discussion involving craft. There are no discussions about hooks, sentence length, echos, plot twists, passive vs. active tense, showing vs. telling, prologues, etc. Why is that? This not to suggest that there is anything wrong with the topics which are discussed. Just curious, not critical.
if you're interested in something, start a thread. that's the only way to get a conversation going.

and actually, there probably have been threads about anything you're interested in, since kb has been around for a long time and people come and go.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
SevenDays said:
I always see the kboards as more business-oriented, rather than geared toward craft. I don't know why that is. If you're looking for a place where there's more discussion about craft, you might try AbsoluteWrite.
Thanks for the suggestion. However, I can usually find what I need, online or offline. I'm just curious. I saw a post within the last few days where someone asked (more or less), "What makes you put a book down?" That is a great question. There is a book, which I have, that is titled The First Five Pages which is an excellent read about what causes an agent or editor to put a manuscript down before going past the first five pages, literally. Even though it is written for the traditional publishing market, the observations noted in the book could easily apply to everyone here who wonders why their books don't sell or sell very few copies. The non-craft problems and questions can still signal a failing effort even though there may not be so much as a missing comma or an unnecessary extra comma in a given submission (or upload).
 

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There's been a ton of them. To prologue or not to prologue. For or against the Oxford comma (bless its cotton socks). To outline or wing it. Chapter length. Chapter numbers or headings. Chapters or no chapters. Anything that SK recommends in On Writing. The Rules of Writing by [insert famous writer or not-so-famous blogger]. American English -v- non-American English. Point of view, tense, head-hopping, genre, adverbs, adjectives, conjunctions, split infinitives... you name it, it's probably been done.

The problem with most of these threads is that they tend to polarise. 'I write a 30,000-word outline and bang the perfect novel out within a week - if you do otherwise, you must be daft.' Or, 'Anyone who writes prologues is starting in the wrong place and must be a crisp or two short of a packet.' Often, such threads are locked by a sighing Betsy or Anne.

But you could always start your own - you may be lucky. It might only be visited by writers who know that their way isn't the only way. Just don't hold your breath...
 

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It's true that KB doesn't have as many craft-centric discussions as we have publishing-related topics. But I'd say that's because most of the KBoards writers are now focused on the publishing phase, rather than the early phase of story crafting. Which isn't to say we're ever really done learning. Just that a lot of us have spent years in critique groups and so on, before we reached the point of feeling ready to publish, so we're kinda talked out on the usual craft topics. Now that we're at the publishing point, it's hogging a lot of our attention. This is the go-to place for talking about Kindle publishing (remember we're a sub-forum of what used to be called Kindle Boards), so it's natural that the conversations usually center around that - partly because people have gotten used to getting their critiques and so on from other places.

That said, every 30th or so thread here is related to craft - or at least to crafting blurbs. There was talk for awhile of adding a sub-section specifically for craft talk, so people looking for it wouldn't have to dig. But I don't think that ever came to anything. I think it'd be a nice addition but apparently there's not a lot of demand for it.
 

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Carol (was Dara) said:
IThat said, every 30th or so thread here is related to craft - or at least to crafting blurbs. There was talk for awhile of adding a sub-section specifically for craft talk, so people looking for it wouldn't have to dig. But I don't think that ever came to anything. I think it'd be a nice addition but apparently there's not a lot of demand for it.
There seem to be a lot of threads right now asking for help with blurbs. Maybe a separate section - 'Craft help' or similar - would be useful. Personally, they don't bother me and I'll occasionally try to help if the book sounds interesting. But we're all busy with our own stuff - I often don't even click on those threads if I've only popped in for, say, marketing inspiration.
 

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We used to have the 8-hour challenge, which focused on writing quickly and trusting the subconscious creative processes. We've had the erotica challenge, which focused on getting short pieces out and practicing writing...certain subjects. We've had numerous discussions about blog posts from Certain Authors Who Can't Be Named Without Causing Issues.

Sam Kates said:
(bless its cotton socks)
How about a craft discussion on how fun some British phrases are? :-*

Telly, biccies, cotton socks. ;)
 

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I can't speak for others, but I seldom participate in craft threads for a variety of reasons:

1. My chops aren't that good, at least as compared to many on this board. Thus, I have little to offer in advice or learned opinion.
2. Craft to an author writing literary fiction is a completely different subject than those who write, say, dystopian fiction.
3. You want to start a fight? Post something about comma splices. State a position. Watch the fur fly.
4. I break just about every writing-rule you've ever heard of. As an example, I hate the word, "said," and try to avoid it in dialog. Many believe this makes me a heretic. I react poorly to being called names, and then the admins' have to get out the cattle prods.
5. If you subscribe to the CMOS, you know the number of revisions, changes, reversals, and contradictions therein. So even English language rules are constantly changing. Personally, I can't keep up, and don't care too. My readers seem to understand the story I'm trying to tell, and that's the bottom line.

Anyway, that's why I don't think you see as much craft traffic hereabouts. The subject tends to be like pizza, beer, and who was the greatest rock guitarist of all times - opinions vary. Well, maybe not the guitarist part. We all know that was Jimmy Page; right?  8)   
 

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It's hard to have a lot of discussions about craft, writing, plot or anything else that doesn't involve marketing.  In the last four years, I have yet to see one that did not disintegrate in disagreement.  It always irked me when people whip out a super famous or successful author and use that as their argument or benchmark.  It reminded me of someone pointing at the guy who wins $200 million on the lottery, therefor that is the only way to gamble.  And you just scratch your head because were all talking about black jack.
 

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Craft pretty much stands still. You can find craft by looking many places on the Internet, and it is still in all its old haunts.

Marketing, however, is a moving target. It changes so fast! This forum is mostly our attempt to help each other hunt marketing. We take turns keeping our eye on it and point out where it ran to.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'll pick this up tomorrow, Saturday. I really don't want this thread to deteriorate into some kind of argument. My purpose in starting it was to see why there was almost no discussions on craft.

:) 
 

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Joe_Nobody said:
I can't speak for others, but I seldom participate in craft threads for a variety of reasons:

1. My chops aren't that good, at least as compared to many on this board. Thus, I have little to offer in advice or learned opinion.
2. Craft to an author writing literary fiction is a completely different subject than those who write, say, dystopian fiction.
3. You want to start a fight? Post something about comma splices. State a position. Watch the fur fly.
4. I break just about every writing-rule you've ever heard of. As an example, I hate the word, "said," and try to avoid it in dialog. Many believe this makes me a heretic. I react poorly to being called names, and then the admins' have to get out the cattle prods.
5. If you subscribe to the CMOS, you know the number of revisions, changes, reversals, and contradictions therein. So even English language rules are constantly changing. Personally, I can't keep up, and don't care too. My readers seem to understand the story I'm trying to tell, and that's the bottom line.

Anyway, that's why I don't think you see as much craft traffic hereabouts. The subject tends to be like pizza, beer, and who was the greatest rock guitarist of all times - opinions vary. Well, maybe not the guitarist part. We all know that was Jimmy Page; right? 8)
Jimmy Page? Jimmy Page? You've got to be kidding me.... You have the Jimmy part right only it's spelled Jimi .... lol
 

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Cherise Kelley said:
Craft pretty much stands still. You can find craft by looking many places on the Internet, and it is still in all its old haunts.

Marketing, however, is a moving target. It changes so fast! This forum is mostly our attempt to help each other hunt marketing. We take turns keeping our eye on it and point out where it ran to.
I completely agree. It's been studied for hundreds of years. Marketing changes so rapidly. Even being an indie author is a relatively new phenomenon in the annals of author history.
 
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Joe_Nobody said:
I can't speak for others, but I seldom participate in craft threads for a variety of reasons:

1. My chops aren't that good, at least as compared to many on this board. Thus, I have little to offer in advice or learned opinion.
2. Craft to an author writing literary fiction is a completely different subject than those who write, say, dystopian fiction.
3. You want to start a fight? Post something about comma splices. State a position. Watch the fur fly.
4. I break just about every writing-rule you've ever heard of. As an example, I hate the word, "said," and try to avoid it in dialog. Many believe this makes me a heretic. I react poorly to being called names, and then the admins' have to get out the cattle prods.
5. If you subscribe to the CMOS, you know the number of revisions, changes, reversals, and contradictions therein. So even English language rules are constantly changing. Personally, I can't keep up, and don't care too. My readers seem to understand the story I'm trying to tell, and that's the bottom line.
^^^Yep, that would be me too if I stuck my few cents worth^^^

I'm much happier knowing or investigating what people are having issues with in marketing and selling their books. Writing is a personal thing to each of us, the marketing and successful distribution of the end result is something we all have in common.
 

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Joe_Nobody said:
I can't speak for others, but I seldom participate in craft threads for a variety of reasons:

1. My chops aren't that good, at least as compared to many on this board. Thus, I have little to offer in advice or learned opinion.
2. Craft to an author writing literary fiction is a completely different subject than those who write, say, dystopian fiction.
3. You want to start a fight? Post something about comma splices. State a position. Watch the fur fly.
4. I break just about every writing-rule you've ever heard of. As an example, I hate the word, "said," and try to avoid it in dialog. Many believe this makes me a heretic. I react poorly to being called names, and then the admins' have to get out the cattle prods.
5. If you subscribe to the CMOS, you know the number of revisions, changes, reversals, and contradictions therein. So even English language rules are constantly changing. Personally, I can't keep up, and don't care too. My readers seem to understand the story I'm trying to tell, and that's the bottom line.

Anyway, that's why I don't think you see as much craft traffic hereabouts. The subject tends to be like pizza, beer, and who was the greatest rock guitarist of all times - opinions vary. Well, maybe not the guitarist part. We all know that was Jimmy Page; right? 8)
Look here you heretic! :p Said is a very important word, because readers take it in almost like magic, and don't "sound it out" in their heads. That is a great way to tag dialogue in a story with a lot of characters speaking in a group. Also, there is nothing worse than an audio book with stuff like: he growled, he intoned loftily, he shouted, argued, opined etc. Said is almost invisible, but it does its job like a trooper, getting the job done without fuss.

Deep breath...

The oxford comma is awesome sauce because.... hehehe :-*
 

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Hi Joe,

Thanks. I thought it was just me that hated using the word "said" in dialogue. I know everyone says it's invisible, and perhaps it is when I read it in other people's works, but I simply can't stand writing it for some reason.

Cheers, Greg.
 
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