[Terrence OBrien]

. And besides, if W.H. Smith were so concerned about their reputation as a family friendly store, maybe they should have installed an adult filter on their website in the first place?

Good point. Perhaps that's what they are doing during the shutdown.

 

[CoraBuhlert]

It's Weltbild with a "D". I have a write-up about the scandal on my blog with links, including some in English.

And I sincerely doubt that the future of W.H. Smith is/was at risk because of a few problematic books. W.H. Smith is a big company with lots of stores. And books aren't even their main line. I strongly suspect that newspapers and magazines as well as snacks and chocolate are bigger sellers for them.

As for Johnson & Johnson, I'm not sure if their whole company was at risk, though I suspect Tylenol was a bigger seller for Johnson & Johnson than books for W.H. Smith. Though I mainly associate them with cosmetics and detergents, not pharmaceuticals, probably because Tylenol had never been available in Germany (at least not as Tylenol, the substance itself is available under a different trade name).

Besides, if Grünental Pharma could survive the Contergan/Thalidomide scandal (which is a textbook case of how not to handle health hazards) and Ford could survive knowingly releasing a car prone to go up in flames, then a few dirty book shouldn't be a problem.

 

[CraigInOregon]

I DO write erotica and mine are still up, too. I publish directly through Kobo writinglife.

I publish via Kobo Writing Life, too.

Maybe that's it?

Maybe it's better to go direct than via Draft2Digital?

*ducks inevitable pro-D2D s---storm*

 

[CoraBuhlert]

Remember, this kerfuffle is coming from a country which considered 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre' to be too dangerously depraved for anyone in the country to watch until it was finally passed by the film censors in the late 90s or early 2000s.

Hey, here in Germany we still can't watch Evil Dead or Friday the 13th after thirty years, because the voluntary self-control (which is neither voluntary nor self-control) considers both films too dangerous to watch. And mainstream Hollywood action fare like Total Recall or Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is only available in a cut to ribbons edition. However, censorship here mostly affects visual media and is focussed on violence rather than sex.

And books are rarely banned unless it's incitement to hatred (and it has to be damn hateful to be considered incitement to hatred) as well as cases of supposedly violating privacy rights such as Esra by Maxim Biller, which was banned in 2007, because Biller's ex-girlfriend and her mother felt the novel violated their privacy rights. There is an English language summary of the case here. And pretty much everybody agrees that the Esra ban was ridiculous and that the novel basically became a victim of an ugly relationship war.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I wonder what the risk/reward rubric is between basically ignoring a tabloid's expose in a nation that has learned that tabloids are jokes while quietly adding an adult filter and, say, loudly blaring it out to the internet that you are all for censorship and have hurt hundreds of people in the process of engaging in it.

The wound from this decision is going to be far deeper than if they had just kept their heads down.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

And I sincerely doubt that the future of W.H. Smith is/was at risk because of a few problematic books. W.H. Smith is a big company with lots of stores. And books aren't even their main line. I strongly suspect that newspapers and magazines as well as snacks and chocolate are bigger sellers for them

.

I don't. I never underestimate the power of the masses to respond to emotion or a charismatic leader manipulating them. History has lots of examples. This is especially true when a firm is facing a challenge from electronic media and a changing demand profile.

As for Johnson & Johnson, I'm not sure if their whole company was at risk, though I suspect Tylenol was a bigger seller for Johnson & Johnson than books for W.H. Smith. Though I mainly associate them with cosmetics and detergents, not pharmaceuticals, probably because Tylenol had never been available in Germany (at least not as Tylenol, the substance itself is available under a different trade name).

It was a very big deal at the time. J&J sure considered it a threat. People falling over dead can have a chilling effect on a pill popping public.

Besides, if Grünental Pharma could survive the Contergan/Thalidomide scandal (which is a textbook case of how not to handle health hazards) and Ford could survive knowingly releasing a car prone to go up in flames, then a few dirty book shouldn't be a problem

.

Think those companies didn't spend huge amounts of resources making sure the FUBARS didn't take them down? That took lots of work. They didn't sit around saying everything will be ok because some other outfit managed to survive. WHSmith isn't sitting around counting on thatt either.

[/quote]

 

[Someone]

Here are some current writing gigs recently been posted on Odesk ( note the Zombie one, although showing a month for its age, was just reposted. It is an ongoing open ad by IMers trying to increase their number of writers. )
Now some will say, "well, they are only asking for one book." Thinking it is just a request for one book is false comfort. There never has been a lot of erotica gigs posted either. What the IMers do is sniff writers out using Odesk requests for one book and then mass produce after they have the number of ESL writers they want. When they hit their number, they drop all of their ads; it's much cheaper for them that way

Another thing is Odesk isn't cheap like it was so its popularity with the IMers has declined. And declined a lot.
The number of ads on the other hire-a-freelance-writer-to-write-an-ebook sites...
When I see how many there are, all I can say is wow

Ghostwriter Wanted for Romance/Suspense - 30K words
Fixed-Price - Est. Budget: $800 - Posted 2 hours ago
Do you have experience writing in the Romance genre? I have the plot and characters fully outlined for a short (30K words) Romance/Suspense book that features a bickering young couple, a one-night affair (not too graphic) by the wife and the offer to the husband by someone who can end his problems by eliminating his wife.

Looking for Fiction Writer to Create Romance Book
Fixed-Price - Est. Budget: $67 - Posted 3 hours ago
Need an English-speaking writer who can create a romance book around 20k words. Story line will be provided

Creative Writing for Vampire Book
Fixed-Price - Est. Budget: $1,000 - Posted 7 hours ago
I've written a book about a young detective that must enter the world of vampires to protect her younger sister. It has a lot of action but also romance throughout the book. The book is about 290 pages long with 18 chapters.

Ghostwriter for Zombie survival horror short stories.
Fixed-Price - Est. Budget: $30 - Posted 1 month ago
Require Zombie survival horror content short stories. -Payment will be $30 USD per story. -These stories are of normal people in horrific situations (zombie apocalypse).

Ghost Writer - Contemporary Romance
Fixed-Price - Est. Budget: $500 - Posted 4 hours ago
I am looking to hire a ghostwriter to write a contemporary romance novel of at least 70,000 words in length. The story must be a minimum of 70,000 words. I will provide you with an outline for an idea for a story I have. ... I will provide you with an outline for an idea for a story I have. You will read what I have already written, and consider it just notes and then write your own version of my story. ... You will read what I have already written, and consider it just notes and then write your own version of my story. I am *NOT* looking for someone to try and re-write what I've already written.

There's a few I found in a simple, fast search
This is exactly what happened to erotica. Requests for other genres were non-existent
Now, however, there are a lot of requests for other genres and much fewer for erotica - retailers are looking too close at erotica so IMers are backing off

Internet Marketing in a new genre
Wash, rinse, repeat
It's coming to a genre near you. Soon. Very soon
And when it does, the complaints will be about the indie and small press books, and indie and small press as a whole, in YOUR genre

The dog or the tail
That easy
Now if only authors, all authors, would push back by pointing the real problem out

But when IM happens in the other genres as it has in erotica - not if, but when - at least us erotica authors might have a break from the hot seat for awhile

 

[Gertie Kindle]

I've spent quite a bit of time in the UK in the past 18 years. I'm very familiar with W.H. Smith and I have never viewed them as a "family institution", though they tend to have a good selection of children's books and YA, even today. I guess it comes down to having been taken to W.H. Smith as a child to buy schoolbooks and stationery, an experience I never had. For me, they were merely a place to pick up a magazine or a book and maybe a snack before a train/plane journey.

And let's not forget that W.H. Smith has been selling erotica in its brick and mortar stores for as long as I have been visiting their stores. They used to carry Black Lace books and a similar line of trad pub erotica in the 1990s. They carry skin mags (no idea how explicit, if it's only the really mild ones like Maxim, the racier ones like Playboy or Penthouse or the really racy stuff). They carry tabloids with scantily clad ladies and racy headlines. Last year I was in a W.H. Smith store that had a big display table full of trad-pub erotica to cash in on the 50 Shades of Grey boom, including Gabriel's Inferno, an erotic romance between a college student and her professor that would probably get dinged these days, if self-published.

So in short, they are hypocrites or the people who view W.H. Smith as a family retailer have been visiting very different Smith stores. And besides, if W.H. Smith were so concerned about their reputation as a family friendly store, maybe they should have installed an adult filter on their website in the first place?

Anybody ever watch I, Claudius, a BBC production?

Messalina showing her naked breasts. Sejanus telling the soldier protesting against killing a 14 year old virgin because it's forbidden, "Then see that she's not a virgin when you kill her."

Goodness! Nudity, rape and murder on national television!

 

[AnitaDobs]

They carry skin mags (no idea how explicit, if it's only the really mild ones like Maxim, the racier ones like Playboy or Penthouse or the really racy stuff).

Oh good point!

I can confirm some of their magazines are very explicit. At least as explicit as you can get where each image is a single image of a female baring all... and not in an almost tasteful Playboy way either. This doesn't take into account the ads within those mags which are as explicit (couples/trios) as you can get.

But, I'm no expert. One fell off the shelf.

 

[JRTomlin]

Of course we can fault them. And I have no reason to think you can come up with a solution.

On the contrary. A solution would be extremely easy, the same one that Smashwords uses. Put in an "adult content" filter. Problem solved.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

On the contrary. A solution would be extremely easy, the same one that Smashwords uses. Put in an "adult content" filter. Problem solved.

Perhaps it would be extremely easy to use an adult filter if they have an adult on/off flag on all their inventory. Do they have it now? Where does that come from? Who puts the adult label on a book? The filter is easy. The data is a different story. We can do all sorts of sorting and selection, but we need the data to do it.

 

[JRTomlin]

Perhaps it would be extremely easy to use an adult filter if they have an adult on/off flag on all their inventory. Do they have it now? Where does that come from? Who puts the adult label on a book? The filter is easy. The data is a different story.

The same place Smashwords gets theirs.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

The same place Smashwords gets theirs.

OK. Where is that? Do we have any reason to think Amazon, Kobo, B&N, and WHSmith all have the flag set in their inventory? If not, how many millions of books have to be flagged? What is the basis for the flags? How is it done?

We cant say its extremely easy if we dont know this stuff. Anyone know? I don't.

 

[Monique]

I publish via Kobo Writing Life, too.

Maybe that's it?

Maybe it's better to go direct than via Draft2Digital?

*ducks inevitable pro-D2D s---storm*

Since this is about events in the UK, I'm assuming you looked for your books on the UK site and not the US site?

 

[ilamont]

Spotted on GigaOm:

In furor over rape and incest porn, ebook retailers aren't the only ones to blame

I got a notice from Kobo this morning, but the language in it suggested that they were only taking down "offensive" titles, not everything under the sun:

As you may be aware, there has been a significant amount of negative media attention in the UK regarding offensive material that became available across a number of eBook platforms. Kobo was included in the reports from media and we are taking immediate action to resolve an issue that is the direct result of a select few authors and publishers violating Kobo's content policies.

In order to address the situation Kobo is taking the following steps:
1. We are removing titles in question from the Kobo platform.

2. We are quarantining and reviewing titles to ensure that compliance to our policies is met by all authors and publishers. We will ensure that content meeting the policy is made available online as soon as possible.

3. We are reviewing our policies and procedures to implement safeguards that will ensure this situation does not happen in the future.

However, when I tried to visit my Kobo publishing page, I got an error message.

I don't get a lot of sales from Kobo, but I am bothered by Kobo's ham-handed approach.

I am also wondering about the review processes employed by the platforms. They're black boxes, but I assume in the hours or days that books are "in review", human beings in some remote cube farm are looking at basic metadata like title, description, and cover art, and algorithms are crunching through the interior text. Shouldn't this get most of the obvious titles, like those named in the GigaOm article?

 

[Wansit]

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164749.0.html

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164939.0.html

Goodnight

 

[MarilynVix]

I'm wondering how people are doing in getting their titles listed through Smashwords or other means this week. Because of the hoopla, not sure how long it will take to get my title up on Nook, Sony, Kobo, and other distributors that work with Smashwords. Anybody trying to get things listed on the Prime Catalog having trouble? Or did Smashwords just hit stop this week.  Trying to get everything listed in time for Halloween sales.

 

[Betsy the Quilter]

ilamont,

I've merged your thread with one of the existing threads on this topic.  Sorry for any confusion.  Thanks for understanding.

Betsy
KB Mod

 

[Lummox JR]

Lummox, please forgive me for any perceived "picking on you" here; however I'd like to make a point about some expressed attitudes on this, and you have three sentences that can help me illustrate the point. It's not personal.

In another thread on this topic, I brought up the point that erotica gets treated like the red-headed stepchild and people generally don't worry how it's treated because they don't write it. This is rationalized in general by people because the content of some erotica subgenres is objectionable to a lot of people.

I called it the WSICWIDAM Factor. (Translation: Why should I care when it doesn't affect me?)

Point well taken (and I don't feel picked on).

Although the delisting of erotica doesn't impact me now, it is worth recognizing that when one genre falls, others are in danger. These sorts of things always come with a nasty slippery slope. The fact that sci-fi and fantasy are way down near the bottom of the slope doesn't mean there's no cause for concern.

Yet on the other hand, look at that debacle a few years ago when Amazon was selling some schmo's book on how to be a better pedophile. I'm going by memory here, but the gist is they gave out a form response of "We don't want to be censors", then they took it down, then it went back up, then they took it down again. It was kind of badly handled because they didn't have a plan in place at the time, but clearly if ever a line needed to be drawn on a book, it was here. My gut says this was just a typical case of content coming in from a third-party publisher like Lulu or such, and while they botched their initial response (which, let's face it, Amazon always does; their first-tier form letter response system is crap), they did the right thing. I don't think the book going back up was their fault; it was either an automated system or the author himself trying to get around the delisting. Yet Amazon still took the blame for a lot of what happened, when in reality the only thing they did wrong was send that stupid form response. (If I'm wrong on any of the details here, it's because this falls under Things I Don't Want to Google.) I know people who still won't use Amazon because that incident ticked them off so badly.

In this case I don't love (from a free speech standpoint) that these books were censored, nor that lots of more "regular" erotica got bashed just because a small fraction of the genre is really extreme and squidgy, nor that this whole thing sets a really bad precedent. But in spite of all that, I get the distributors' and retailers' points. It would have made way more sense, however, to just delist those specific titles and be done with it. While the troll still wins, at least he doesn't get a ton of free publicity out of it because a bad decision on the business's part caused the author community to mobilize for war. If all this guy can get every time he raises a stink is a brief "We've taken care of those titles", then he's fighting the tide uselessly.

And to address the other big back-and-forth in this thread: The J&J analogy is terrible. A few books tarnishing a brand isn't equivalent to consumers fearing they're playing Russian roulette with their medication. Removing those books would have taken care of the immediate problem, and if they chose to go a step further then a simple press release could have explained that they'd followup by looking into other titles in the coming days and weeks. In every case of brand endangerment, there are two priorities: 1) Protect consumers from harm, and 2) reduce the oxygen so the flames die down. #1 doesn't always apply, and didn't here; the threat to the brand and a threat to consumers are two completely different things. #2 differs on a case-by-case basis; what will reassure most people in one case will cause massive problems in others. J&J acted quickly and responsibly in a way that was right for their exact situation. The parties involved here acted quickly but extremely recklessly, making a bad situation worse.

 

[Incognita]

Since this is about events in the UK, I'm assuming you looked for your books on the UK site and not the US site?

FWIW, my books (directly uploaded) seem to show up on the UK site as well. (Knock wood.)

They're all romance, some sweet, some mildly spicy.