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Discussion Starter #1
What are normal numbers of conversion for people who fill out your mailing list form versus people who click the double-opt-in confirmation mail?

I have MailMunch on my site and it lists everybody who single-opts-in, but I'm not getting the MailChimp confirmation notifications. I had 3 people sign up to my mailing list yesterday from my site, but none added to my list (probably because they never confirmed in the email).

Is this normal? Are these just freebie seekers who wanted free books without joining?
 

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Domino,
It could also be that they haven't checked their email yet.  The email I use most for newsletters gets checked about once a week.
 

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Might be problems with plug in and MaiclChimp not working. Make a test sign up with your own email and see..

Maybe switch to Sumo Me for email sign ups. Free and has more than one optin form ways and helps get more social shares (esp. for images).

It's normal to have some not confirm subscription. Some forget, some just too lazy to do it. Shouldn't be over 5-10%. Otherwise, might need to give better instructions for them to follow up (in your Thank You page that shows up after someone subs on your site).
 
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I use my own mailing system on my site. I took a conscious decision not to go for the double opt-in because if people do come to my website, and fill in the information required they have already made their commitment. They are all adults with freedom of choice - I respect that.

I have the ability to monitor who opens emails and every single one that goes out has an unsubscribe button in it (nobody has used it yet). If the email addresses are spoofs nobody wins because I don't do giveaways to get them to sign-up.

My philosophy from all my years in retail has always been 'make it easy for people to do business with me' and getting them to jump through unnecessary hoops is not part of my strategy.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
TobiasRoote said:
I use my own mailing system on my site. I took a conscious decision not to go for the double opt-in because if people do come to my website, and fill in the information required they have already made their commitment. They are all adults with freedom of choice - I respect that.
That's tempting, but isn't double opt-in required by spam laws?

I do suspect the plug-in may not be working 100%, but my test (and some others) do come through. It could just be slow email checking, as Cin suggests, but I'm looking at some older sign-ups as well.
 
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Domino Finn said:
That's tempting, but isn't double opt-in required by spam laws?
It's not a blanket requirement that requires a kneejerk response every time.

"A business relationship in which contact information was obtained constitutes prior consent as long as a means to opt out was provided at the same time and continues to be provided with each such message and each message is about similar products or services by the same company."

As all of my messages carry an 'opt out' and my relationship with a reader that has come to sign-up on my site (without enticements) is a voluntary opt-in, then there is no issue.
 
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1) THIS:


*****
I use my own mailing system on my site. I took a conscious decision not to go for the double opt-in because if people do come to my website, and fill in the information required they have already made their commitment. They are all adults with freedom of choice - I respect that.

I have the ability to monitor who opens emails and every single one that goes out has an unsubscribe button in it (nobody has used it yet). If the email addresses are spoofs nobody wins because I don't do giveaways to get them to sign-up.

My philosophy from all my years in retail has always been 'make it easy for people to do business with me' and getting them to jump through unnecessary hoops is not part of my strategy.

*****

2) Double opt-in is completely unnnecessary. If you're having authors primarily signing up from your book/site/blog/etc. then they're giving consent.

If you want to be extra safe, do what's recommended above

a) INclude an unsubscribe button at the bottom of each email.

Also you can add a note on the sign up form page.

Please Note: Signing up constitutes acceptance of the terms of service. Every email has an unsubscribe button at the end, in case you want to opt out of receiving emails in future.

 

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Advice to use 'your own mailing system' is not great. With systems like Mailchimp and ActiveCampaign available so readily and with features like autoresponders and list segmentation available, no sense in making your own thing. Just loosing time. Unless you're very technically inclined and love that kind of work then it's fine (altho it still has big opportunity costs).

@Domino, how are those subscribers now? Did some of them confirmed the opt-in?
 

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I have about a 10% opt versus number of sales. Almost every sign up comes from the back matter of the book, though I do have the option of signing up on my site. I'm not trying to push it hard there, because I'm more after quality than quantity.

About double opt in I use it largely because I've seen the financial devastation that can occur if someone ever calls you on that. I used to work in the mortgage industry and one of my broker's lost his business after a suit from angry customers who didn't feel like they should have been on his list.
 
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RBC said:
Advice to use 'your own mailing system' is not great.
Actually it IS. YOU have total control over your lists. They're not managed by anyone else and it is VERY simple to do if you have a website. Your own web platform manages your emails and you don't fall foul of anyone else's rules. In addition, its cost effective if you go over the maximum free addresses you are allowed on the various alternatives. you can export/import addresses to/from any of the other platforms. It's incredibly versatile and its yours.

Having used both Mailchimp and built websites for twenty years, I think both have merit. If you have your own website it makes sense to keep it in-house.
 

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TobiasRoote said:
Actually it IS. YOU have total control over your lists. They're not managed by anyone else and it is VERY simple to do if you have a website. Your own web platform manages your emails and you don't fall foul of anyone else's rules. In addition, its cost effective if you go over the maximum free addresses you are allowed on the various alternatives. you can export/import addresses to/from any of the other platforms. It's incredibly versatile and its yours.

Having used both Mailchimp and built websites for twenty years, I think both have merit. If you have your own website it makes sense to keep it in-house.
What about when you get to send mass emails to thousands of subscribers? From personal email address? Way easier to get blacklisted than from reputable companies?

Also, how about deliverability? Design? Conversion tracking? Most importantly, segmentation and personalization?

It might be possible, and I get the feeling you're a tech person. What is great for you, is not great for others. If you can do it then it's good.

And while I'm all about control, sometimes it can go over board. This is one case. You can import and export a CSV list of those email from any service provider. You're not out of control of your list at all. And while you have regulations, those are there for reason.

Most importantly, this is about time. DIY is not free, never is. Money you can earn back, time.. never.
 

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Also, most people don't understand the CANN SPAM act and what they are REQUIRED to tell each subscriber at sign-up and every time they mail, if they operate in the USA.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
RBC said:
@Domino, how are those subscribers now? Did some of them confirmed the opt-in?
So far, 50% of the people who single-opted also double-opted (and made it to the list).

An additional benefit of the double opt-in is that it ensures that the person on your list is actually able to receive an email from you. A single opt address can be a typo, or fake, or it can be legit but filtered out as spam, or any number of things.
 

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Domino Finn said:
So far, 50% of the people who single-opted also double-opted (and made it to the list).

An additional benefit of the double opt-in is that it ensures that the person on your list is actually able to receive an email from you. A single opt address can be a typo, or fake, or it can be legit but filtered out as spam, or any number of things.
Maybe. I prefer single optin myself but who knows. :)

50% is a bit low. What's your Page that shows up after people sign up first time? Is it very clear on what to do next. Maybe improvement there would raise the %. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
RBC said:
Maybe. I prefer single optin myself but who knows. :)

50% is a bit low. What's your Page that shows up after people sign up first time? Is it very clear on what to do next. Maybe improvement there would raise the %. :)
It's a MailMunch plug-in and I don't totally trust that it works great. I kinda hacked the pop-up. The box has a message that says "Check your inbox to confim membership" but that boring and corporatey. I'm gonna change it to "Check your inbox for your free books."
 

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Double opt-in in the way to go. It's required by anti-spam laws in most countries and it prevents malicious (or well meant) sign-ups by someone else using your email address.

It also helps remind people that they agreed to get emails from you. Otherwise, if they forget, they may hit the spam button instead of the unsubcribe link. If that happens too many times, your sending address and domain will be flagged as a source of spam and your delivery rate will plummet.

 

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Caimin said:
Double opt-in in the way to go. It's required by anti-spam laws in most countries and it prevents malicious (or well meant) sign-ups by someone else using your email address.

It also helps remind people that they agreed to get emails from you. Otherwise, if they forget, they may hit the spam button instead of the unsubcribe link. If that happens too many times, your sending address and domain will be flagged as a source of spam and your delivery rate will plummet.
Sites like Thrillist, DailyWorth or TheSkimm don't have double optin and have build great audiences. Not sure it's required then for US...
 
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