[lilywhite]

It may not always be intended as keyword spam. I think it's like everything else -- it depends on how it's used. I've used it to guide readers as to what kind of book they're looking at when that particular book touches on multiple genres. There's nothing wrong with "Billy and Raven: A BBW Shifter Romance" if it tells the reader what the book is offering them.

I certainly can't speak for anyone else, but that kind of thing just doesn't bother me. It's not a whole lot different from "A Novel" or "A Pride & Prejudice Variation"--you're just helping the reader to orient themselves. Smart to put it on your cover and CYA, but honestly I don't think most folks mean that when they're talking about keyword spam. For me, what I'm talking about is titles like: Romance: Bear Naked: A BBW Bear Shifter Victorian Erotica Motorcycle Club Alpha Billionaire First-Time Taboo Erotic Romance with a Tattooed Hero and Sassy Heroine, Happy Ending, Standalone by Lady Angelica and The Amish. You know?

 

[unkownwriter]

I agree with lilywhite. It's not so much the odd bit of keyword/clarification stuff, but the latter example she gave. From what I've heard, it's becoming rampant, and we all know what Amazon does when they get tired of something.

PSA:  The ban hammer hurts all of us, not just the wrong-doers.

 

[katrina46]

You aren't supposed to do it, but it works or you wouldn't see so many titles like that. I've never done it with my erotica, but in that genre it works extremely well.

 

[archaeoroutes]

If you're talking about the subtitle that shows up on your Amazon page, you can delete that in KDP, in "edit details". Just delete it and then the subtitle will be whatever you put in the "series" slot. And you can change that too, if you want. Although make sure all the "series titles" are the same.

Thanks. I'll have another try. I think it was Createspace causing the problem, though.

 

[DarkScribe]

Hi all ... So I'm noticing a lot of genre fiction titles now seem to have titles that read like this:

Alien Romance: Love and Antennae (Alien Paranormal Shapeshifter Romance) (New Adult and College Women's Fiction Romantic)

Anyone having success with this? Or bad experiences? I was under impression that Amazon has a policy that title must be printed on cover of book, which keywords like these are not ... Thoughts?

I'm intrigued but don't want to get booted off of Amazon ...

Suzanne

Hey, that's pretty clever. She (I presume that it is a she...) has managed to combine six keywords, any one of which would ensure that I skipped right past the book without further interest. More people should do that - it would make life much simpler for people like me.

 

[Clare W]

Amazon has been crackin' down on people with those kind of titles.

Any evidence?

Not as far as I know. I complained about a book with blatant keyword stuffing in the title. Amazon wrote back and said that yes, it contravened their policies. Then did nothing about it. The book's still there, unchanged.

Clare

 

[JessieVerona]

Not as far as I know. I complained about a book with blatant keyword stuffing in the title. Amazon wrote back and said that yes, it contravened their policies. Then did nothing about it. The book's still there, unchanged.

Clare

Regardless of what their rules seem to state, they obviously don't care about it.

 

[Ann in Arlington]

If readers -- i.e. customers -- complain about it, they're more likely to act. But I think most folks browsing for books just browse on past and don't take the time to send a note of complaint to Amazon.

 

[A past poster]

I saw a run of keywords at the bottom of a blurb, one after another without even the pretense of a sentence. Amazon hasn't done anything about it.

 

[belindaf]

As a reader, I immediately disregard titles like that when browsing. Ugh.

Me, too. Unless one of my books is part of a series, it's title only. I'll add the series name for those that aren't stand-alone.

 

[Secret Pen Pal]

I read somewhere that readers tend not to register titles longer than 60 characters. I suspect the excessive keyword stuffing works against people because of the clutter and it screams amateur hour.

Using a couple of keywords in a subtitle or series title to signal to your audience is reasonable.

 

[Guest]

I don't understand how these things get through. The title in the metadata is supposed to match the title on the cover. Period. Full stop. End of discussion. This is the most basic part of publishing. Someone at Amazon should look at the book cover. Look at the metadata. Are they a match? No? REJECT! Author resubmits. Person looks at cover. Looks at metadata? Do they match? No? REJECT and warning. Author resubmits. Person looks at cover. Looks at metadata. Do they match? No. BAN.

It isn't just with books anymore, though. This keyword stuffing is all over the place on Amazon now. It is horrible and makes search a pain in the neck. Looking for anything on Amazon these days is getting more and more frustrating.

 

[Atunah]

I am with some of the other readers. I see that and it is a auto no for me. I don't even care how good a story might be, its automatic exclusion from my vetting process. Although the chance those are good stories are slim anyway. Why else try to use such tactics.

I saw one the other day that had the word Romance in the title 4 times. In addition to some other stuff. What that tells me that is will not in any way shape of form be a romance. Otherwise, one wouldn't have to keep pushing it like that.

They annoy the heck out of me and clutter up all search and browsing. To the point that I don't even browse anymore and I stick with known authors and known books now. Names. Recommendations from readers friends and goodreads.

I like to sometimes go through by day and week and see what was released in various sub genres of romance. Can't do that anymore. There are days when there are like 100's of these garbage titles clutter up that listing. Per day. I go by publication date for that.

I have complained to Amazon a few times be sending feedback. Sometimes I reported "books" but I don't have that time to waste. So many of them. They multiply like rabbits too. There be the long long long stuffed title and book or part 1 all the way to like 30.
Utter garbage most of it.

 

[Scila]

An easy fix would be set a shorter character limit for titles and subtitles... And add a tag system instead of relying just on categories (that don't keep up with the speed of trends).

 

[Monique]

An easy fix would be set a shorter character limit for titles and subtitles... And add a tag system instead of relying just on categories (that don't keep up with the speed of trends).

They used to have tags and got rid of them. They were abused like nobody's business.

 

[Scila]

They used to have tags and got rid of them. They were abused like nobody's business.

Not surprising, but it allows more variety and specificity... It might also stop the store from being visually cluttered by huge titles and subtitles if the tags have higher value in the algorithm than titles.

Any search engine that is not improved and organically built will eventually be abused. Amazon doesn't seem to get that, or maybe they don't mind books being hard to find when they can sell ad space instead.

 

[Monique]

Not surprising, but it allows more variety and specificity... It might also stop the store from being visually cluttered by huge titles and subtitles if the tags have higher value in the algorithm than titles.

Any search engine that is not improved and organically built will eventually be abused. Amazon doesn't seem to get that, or maybe they don't mind books being hard to find when they can sell ad space instead.

I don't see how adding tags would do anything but provide another option for abusers, sadly. The stuffers will still stuff the titles/subtitles and now be able to do bad things with tags. Keywords are, theoretically, what allows for specificity in searches.

 

[Scila]

I don't see how adding tags would do anything but provide another option for abusers, sadly. The stuffers will still stuff the titles/subtitles and now be able to do bad things with tags. Keywords are, theoretically, what allows for specificity in searches.

It's all about the priorities in the search engine. Titles and subtitles should not have the same weight as keywords. Keywords should not be as important as tags. When someone searches for "Romance with Cowboys" what should matter most is not the title of the book, but that's not the case today.

My problem with the keywords is that: 1. They can be all about fitting inside categories instead of the book itself (Which works for Amazon, but not for marketing). 2. You can stuff huge amounts of words there, but it's a shot in the dark because keywords are invisible to the consumer.

A tag system is visible so it will discourage title stuffing and make searching easier, faster (combined with proper weights for categories/title/keywords). It also allows for multiple combinations, instead of elimination (like the categories).

Any fanfiction site worth a salt has a tag system, and they work very well -- tags that appear more frequently are bundled together, so any long non-relevant combinations will disappear into obscurity (no more "Alien Invasion with Cowboys Romance Adventures", but search for "Alien Invasion" + "Cowboy" + "Romance" + "Adventures" and you'll get what you want).

If you make your search engine more intuitive and organic, yes there will be abuse, but you don't need to descend with a banning hammer every two years or race against the scammers all the time, the engine will more or less fix itself or need subtle adjustments. (Much like their rankings).

 

[Monique]

A tag system is visible so it will discourage title stuffing and make searching easier, faster (combined with proper weights for categories/title/keywords). It also allows for multiple combinations, instead of elimination (like the categories).

It simply did not do as you suggest. It was visible and it was abused so badly they removed it.

I have no idea how Amazon weights titles, subtitles, keywords, alsobot similiarities, likelihood to purchase and any number of other factors. I don't think anyone does.

 

[Scila]

It simply did not do as you suggest. It was visible and it was abused so badly they removed it.

I have no idea how Amazon weights titles, subtitles, keywords, alsobot similiarities, likelihood to purchase and any number of other factors. I don't think anyone does.

How was it abused, if you don't mind explaining to me?

Well, search for "Romance with Cowboys" vs "Western Romance" (a category where the top stuffed titles Romance With Cowboys are in), seems pretty possible to me that title is given priority.