Oh man..not the maggots, please no. I have to skim those parts. I have an unholy fear of those things. That word isn't even allowed to be said in my house. It's so bad, I don't eat white rice... Yes, I'm serious.

The leeches I can handle. Those don't bug me to read about.

Sorry about that. If I had known, I would have linked to the leeches instead.

 

Oh man..not the maggots, please no. I have to skim those parts. I have an unholy fear of those things. That word isn't even allowed to be said in my house. It's so bad, I don't eat white rice... Yes, I'm serious.

The leeches I can handle. Those don't bug me to read about.

 

Thanks, Gertie.  I am far more knowledgeable about maggot therapy than the average bear now.
Yes, I would agree.... people are people.  But, we are also molded by our experiences and environment.
I was humbled on a recent trip to Germany... and they are forward and current for the most part.  Yet, their daily lives are so different than ours.  Laws involving keeping the street clean along your home or business.... recycling to a far fetched ideal.    Far less driving and very little at all on Sundays... people walk.

I am comfortably in my 50s.  Yet, even some of the hardships of the previous generation are tough to fathom.   

As I read the book, I am reminded of how fortunate we are.  That seems primary with the story being secondary.  Don't get me wrong.  I enjoy the tale a great deal.  I suppose I have simply been supressing my personal rant about privilege and perspective. 

 

Enjoying the book and previous comments. How did folks think, in that time period. We are looking in from 2009. Were they as trusting and honorable as the outlaw Jamie? Were they of a clear, quick-thinking mind as Claire? Geille is simply a "hoot" who would thrive in any time. My frustration in anaylizing the characters is rooted in my not knowing the period of time and the mind-set of that time.
Nailing the young lads ear..... barbaric, now. What are we doing that will be viewed as barbaric in the future? On the first reading of a book, I think I prefer to sit back and "enjoy the show". I need to leave the "what ifs" to the next reading.

My feeling has always been that times change but people don't. All of the characters you will find in this book, you will probably find in any time period. There are the good, the bad, the leaders, the followers, those with "street" or "mountain" smarts, those with book learning. What changes is the times and what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Acceptable behavior is different from region to region, as well. When my daughter was 14 and went to Europe with my parents, she was allowed to order wine in restaurants. Not something that is allowed in the U.S.

My advice is to just accept what is in the book as right for the times, and read it for what it is.

Jeff, you have it right to have folks read your book prior to the bookklub. A good book simply has too many layers to get though on the first run.

You might want to go ahead and finish the book, and then come back and join the discussion later.

Okay, it has been bloody cold here and our furnace quit last night.... 39 degrees indoors, when the repairman finally got it running again. I think of the castle and lack of creature comforts and realize I can not have any idea of the characters and what they are thinking. One day of cold inside temps and I am ready to howl and bay.

Brrr, sorry about your furnace.

It's all a matter of what you are used to. I've seen films of Alaskan natives in the dead of winter outdoors wearing just windbreakers. That would definitely not be me. I was raised in the south and 60 degree temps here today have me in a sweat shirt and pants, two pairs of socks and boots. To the MacKenzies, their castle was probably equipped with all the latest amenities and comforts.

When we read about Mrs. Fitz using leeches or maggots, we probably all shudder a bit. But these things are being used again now ... more antiseptically of course.

If you want to know more, here's a link.

http://www.healthaffairs.uci.edu/som/pathology/sherman/home_pg.htm#What%20is%20Maggot%20Therapy

 

Enjoying the book and previous comments.  How did folks think, in that time period.  We are looking in from 2009.  Were they as trusting and honorable as the outlaw Jamie?  Were they of a clear, quick-thinking mind as Claire?  Geille is simply a "hoot" who would thrive in any time.  My frustration in anaylizing the characters is rooted in my not knowing the period of time and the mind-set of that time.
Nailing the young lads ear.....  barbaric, now.  What are we doing that will be viewed as barbaric in the future?  On the first reading of a book, I think I prefer to sit back and "enjoy the show".  I need to leave the "what ifs" to the next reading.

Jeff, you have it right to have folks read your book prior to the bookklub.  A good book simply has too many layers to get though on the first run.

Okay, it has been bloody cold here and our furnace quit last night.... 39 degrees indoors, when the repairman finally got it running again.    I think of the castle and lack of creature comforts and realize I can not have any idea of the characters and what they are thinking.  One day of cold inside temps and I am ready to howl and bay.   

 

To add to what others have said, I think that besides getting used to the bathroom situation of that time, I would be more scared of being raped & even ganged raped. The way the author keeps putting it, it seems that whenever the men drink, they do not "choose" to control themselves around women.
I think that Jamie & Claire are attractive to each other & are steadily growing closer. However, Claire being married & from the future, she's still thinking that she wants to go back to Frank. As someone said, she's not attached to Jamie yet. The scene with Jamie kissing Lahere sp? I can't figure it out. First Jamie ignores her at the party, then, he wants Claire to see him in the act, so to speak. Is he trying to make Claire jealous or hopes to? Is Claire jealous? Is there denial going on?
I don't want Claire to go back. I want to see Jamie & Claire fall in love & read more of the story.
Don't know who hit Jamie with the ax. Dougal? Dougal's brother? Dougal's nephew?
Geille sp?  Not a time travelor from Claire's time or she would be just as shocked as Claire at the torture of that boy outside at the Pillary. She acted as if it were normal.
I don't think Frank is bad, because his ancestor was. You are responsible for your own actions.

 

Let's start planning now! Gertie can be the expert on our tour!

Betsy

You got it!!

And our first stop is Inverness.

http://www.inverness-scotland.com/

Be sure to visit the kiltmakers.

http://www.scota.org/kilts.htm

and visit one of Inverness' fine pubs.

http://www.castletavern.net/

 

Anyone else have trouble klicking the link to the pronounceiations. My computer locks up every time.

Depending on your download speed, it might not work well for you. Sorry it's locking up!

Betsy

 

Anyone else have trouble klicking the link to the pronounceiations. My computer locks up every time.

It takes a while to load. These are audio downloads. Just wait a minute or two to see if it works for you.

 

Anyone else have trouble klicking the link to the pronounceiations.  My computer locks up every time.

 

Chapter Ten - The Oath Taking

1) Why do you think Jamie decided not to give Colum his oath? What do you think Claire thought when he didn't?

I dont know how clan things work but it wouldnt seem right to give allegiance to another clan when your in your own. I think that Claire liked the way Jaime handled it but im not sure if she even knows why.

2) Why do you think Dougal kissed Claire?

I think he has had a thing for Claire all along and when he found himself alone with her and he was a little drunk he just couldnt help himself.

3) When you read that Claire thought she could get back "home" from Ft. William, were you hoping she would succeed or fail? (your first impression, please!!)

I am hoping that she can get back. I was thinking that if she made it back then she would know it worked and it wouldnt take long before she just had to know what happens next and goes back again.

 

Let's start planning now!  Gertie can be the expert on our tour!


Betsy

 

Leary is actually the Irish/Celtic pronunciation. There's a town in Ireland called Dun Laoghaire. The website that Betsy found for us pronounces it both ways. Laheer is stuck in my brain, so I'll stay with that. Leerah is a nicer sound, though.

Yes, I've always thought the pronunciation "leary" was quite apropos. Claire would do well to be "leary" or Laoghaire!

Great site. Wouldn't you just love to go on that tour?

I think to celebrate the end of the Outlander Book Klub, we should all go on the tour! Wouldn't that be a hoot!

 

I just got this off of Diana Gabaldon's website.

I've always pronounced Laoghaire "Leer-ah" I think that's how Davina Porter pronounces it in the audiobooks (actually I think she pronounces it one way in the first book and then changes it somewhere after that)

Leary is actually the Irish/Celtic pronunciation. There's a town in Ireland called Dun Laoghaire. The website that Betsy found for us pronounces it both ways. Laheer is stuck in my brain, so I'll stay with that. Leerah is a nicer sound, though.

 

I just got this off of Diana Gabaldon's website.

How is Laoghaire pronounced? Where did the name come from?

I got Laoghaire off a map. {grin} And no, I had no idea how it was pronounced, though I had a guess. The nice actress who does the audiotapes of the books pronounces it "Leery."

How is Geillis' name pronounced?

Well. {cough} I don't know. FWIW, the reader on the audiotape calls her GAY-liss or GAY-lee, and the reader (Geraldine James) is supposed to be quite good with Celtic stuff, so she may well be right.

I've always pronounced Laoghaire "Leer-ah" I think that's how Davina Porter pronounces it in the audiobooks (actually I think she pronounces it one way in the first book and then changes it somewhere after that)

 

Here is a link to some pronunciations!

http://www.ansgeulaiche.co.uk/jamieandclaire.html#gaidhlig

Betsy

Great site. Wouldn't you just love to go on that tour?

I know that Mo Duinne is incorrect, but I don't care (DG made the correction in Voyager, I think). Every time Jamie says "mo duinne" it just makes me sigh. Of course, if I pronounced it correctly, I don't think I would sigh. I think I would just say "God Bless You" in response.

 

Here is a link to some pronunciations!

http://www.ansgeulaiche.co.uk/jamieandclaire.html#gaidhlig

Betsy

 

Here's another pronunciation for you.  I don't remember if it comes up in this book or the next one but here it is.

Samhain (Halloween) is pronounced Sah’veen.

 

Gertie, thank so much for the pronunciation help.... I've read this 4 times now and am so glad I won't be thinking of her as "Jelly" any longer! I've been toying with the idea of buying the DTB Outlandish Companion for a long time. Does anyone know (maybe you have it) if it has the phonetic pronunciation of names? I'm afraid if I buy it, then DG will come out with one that covers the whole series.

No, I never got the Outlandish Companion, but from what I've read on her website, it doesn't have the pronunciations. I don't even remember where I got Laheer from, but I don't think it was from DG.

I always said Geillie with a hard G, so I was sort of close. I don't think I could have taken her quite so seriously at the beginning if I thought of her as Jelly, and definitely not if I thought of her as Jelly Doughnut.

 

Gertie, thank so much for the pronunciation help.... I've read this 4 times now and am so glad I won't be thinking of her as "Jelly" any longer!  I've been toying with the idea of buying the DTB Outlandish Companion for a long time.  Does anyone know (maybe you have it) if it has the phonetic pronunciation of names?  I'm afraid if I buy it, then DG will come out with one that covers the whole series.

 

Thank you very much! I was thinking Jelly and because her last name is Duncan
i was thinking Dunkin so i was thinking of her as Dunkin Jelly Doughnuts.

I was pronouncing it Jelly too!

 

Thank you very much! I was thinking Jelly and because her last name is Duncan
i was thinking Dunkin so i was thinking of her as Dunkin Jelly Doughnuts.

 

From gertiekindle:
Geillis is pronounced GAY-liss. Geillie is pronounced GAY-lee.

Thank you very much! I was thinking Jelly and because her last name is Duncan
i was thinking Dunkin so i was thinking of her as Dunkin Jelly Doughnuts.

 

Sorry I haven't been here. I've been in bed moaning and whining about feeling sick in between coughing. Better now, but the cough lingers on.

From Lizzy:

2) What impressions did you get about Geillie's background?

I havent figured her out yet. Does anybody know how to pronounce her name?

Geillis is pronounced GAY-liss. Geillie is pronounced GAY-lee.

From Kreelanwarrior:

1) Who do you think hit Jamie on the head with an axe?

Good heavens, who knows? Well, obviously Gertie does! Grin But obviously somebody who wanted to get rid of Jamie, although the reason for that isn't quite clear. But, more importantly, who (and why) saved him and carted him off to France??

Yes, Gertie knows and so does Jan. But we're not telling. (hee-hee)

2) Claire teases Jamie about kissing Loaghaire in the alcove. Do you think her teasing is based on her growing feelings for him, or is she actually as "disinterested" as she appears?

I think her teasing was more or less good-natured (in that semi-spiteful womanly way!), but I don't think she quite realizes how much she's falling for him (and this comment from a guy! D'oh!).

You may be a guy, but you know character development and you're seeing Jamie and Claire as people.

1) Why do you think Geillie tells Claire that young Hamish is rumored to be Jamie's son? Who did you think was really Hamish's father?

It's juicy gossip that needs to be shared! As for the real father...Darth Vader?? Grin

I'm your father, Luke
Now ain't that grand?
We can be together.
Sorry 'bout your hand

2) What impressions did you get about Geillie's background?

This is awful: I just read this today and can't remember a darn thing about her background! Grrr...

You can't remember anything about Geillie's background because she was pretty careful not to reveal much.

From Luvmy4brats:

2) Claire teases Jamie about kissing Loaghaire in the alcove. Do you think her teasing is based on her growing feelings for him, or is she actually as "disinterested" as she appears?

First of all, I have to stay this was REALLY stupid of Jamie! He's just gotten himself beaten because of her. He tried to protect her and then puts them both out there like this.

Yes, it was pretty stupid and he chooses a place where anyone can (and does) walk by. Was he looking to get a rise out of Claire? We mentioned this before, and I think he wasn't unhappy that she saw him with Laheer.

 

Chapter 6

1.  Why did Jamie take the beating for Loaghaire?  I think that having suffered repeated beatings himself he didn't want anyone else to experience it.  Honorable or foolish?  I think it was neither, I think he knew that he wouldn't get flogged and could handle the fists.

2.  Claire didn't have much trouble adapting - I think that she has had to adapt all her life, after losing her parents and traveling everywhere with her uncle and dealing with the war, ultimately this was just one more adjustment she has to make.  What would be most difficult about adapting?  I think that the sanitary issues would be most difficult to deal with.

Chapter 7

1.  Who hit Jamie on the head?  Someone who wanted him dead, perhaps a rival?

2.  Why important for Claire to be useful?  Doesn't everyone want to be useful?  I think it also helps to pass the time and I don't think she can stand to see people suffer if she can help.

Chapter 8

1.  Gwyllyn tales based on actual time travel?  At this time, who knows?

2.  Claire's teasing Jamie?  I think she genuinely likes him although I'm not sure it is romantic at this time.

3.  Jamie's parents and background?  I think he told her because she was willing to listen.

Chapter 9

1.  Why Geillie tells Calire that Hamish is Jamie's son?  Maybe to see her reaction.  I think that Hamish is Dougal's son.

2.  Geillie's background?  It sounds like there is more to her than meets the eye.  It almost sounds like the author wants us to think Geillie might be a time traveler or knows of them.

3.  Mistress Sassenach?  I think that Claire knows that it is a derogatory name and that she is called that because no one believes the name she gave them.

Chapter 10

1.  Jamie not giving Colum his oath?  I think that he has responsibilities to his own clan.  What Claire thought?  I think she thinks he is a bit foolish but respects his decision.

2.  Why did Dougal kiss Claire?  Too much to drink and couldn't resist the opportunity.

3.  Claire going back home and do I want her to succeed or fail?  I don't want her to get back home.  If she does what would be the purpose of the remainder of the book?

I answered these questions before reading any of the other posts so that I wouldn't be influenced by anyone else's answers.