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Robert Stanek said:
Amazon knows where devices associated with a single account are being used. When a single account is being used by five different people (one in Miami, one in Bismark, one in Boston, one in Tampa, and one in Los Angeles), there's a problem.
One small quibble--I don't think Amazon would use this alone as a basis for intervening with an account. Many of our members have multiple users on their accounts, to include parents, siblings and children living in different cities. My brother, who lives in Maryland while I'm in Virginia, is on my account. Ann's brother lives in New Jersey and is on her account. We get questions all the time from people who say they've bought their elderly out of town relative a Kindle and are trying to troubleshoot it long distance. Others have children in college.

Just wanted to point this out. :D

Betsy
 

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Robert Stanek said:
At some point though, I do believe it becomes abuse. Sharing a single copy of an ebook with your spouse or a child is to be expected. Sharing a single copy of an ebook purchased with five friends is not expected and particularly when the five friends are all reading the work at the same time through a single shared account.
If all of those people own Kindles are on my account (which means they can buy books using my account information), yeah, they have access to my books. Amazon has been very clear on that, and, as a Kindle owner, that's what I want. That's not an abuse. Illegally copying books from one device to another, that's abuse. When someone not on my account wants to borrow a Kindle book, if they are a good enough friend, I loan them one of my backup Kindles. :D If they are not that good a friend, I recommend the library. ::)

As far as I know, publishers can limit the number of simultaneous uses for a book. At least they used to be able to. The default used to be six for books with DRM, but I've seen books with fewer.

Betsy
 

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Bards and Sages (Julie) said:
Exactly. The LAST thing in the world I want to do is criminalize the behavior of those who have bought a legal copy of my book. The more restrictions you put on a book's use, the more likely people are to look for workarounds. And when they start looking for workarounds, you drive them into the pirate domain.
Julie!!

We were going to send out a search party for you....haven't seen you recently. We were just discussing it in the smoke-filled Admin caves. (Not as relates to this thread, just in general. :D)

Betsy
 

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Robert Stanek said:
I haven't checked recently, but I believe Amazon may actually allow up to 7 devices on 1 account.
I don't believe there is a limit. I currently have on my account:
two Kindle 1s
basic Kindle ($69)
two Paperwhites (one to be given away at Christmas)
a Kindle Touch
an original Fire
two Fire 7" HDXs (one to be given away at Christmas)
a Fire HDX 8.9"

That's nine ten. Forgot my brothers K1, still on my account. So ten. (Yes, I'm a collector. ;D) And I've downloaded books to all of them in testing. This is not abuse.

I know members who have more (my co-mod Heather AKA LuvMy5Brats). And that's not counting my apps. I'm allowed ten devices to access my music in Amazon's cloud.

What Amazon will limit, if the publisher sets it, is the number of simultaneous devices that a book can be on. The default used to be six; but DRM-free books don't usually have a limit, and I have seen books limited to one simultaneous use. But those are set by the publisher, as far as I know.

Betsy
 

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Robert Stanek said:
You, on other hand, seem to be using the devices for testing and such, which is a different situation.
Well, not all of them are mine, and Amazon doesn't know and hasn't asked me what I'm doing with all of these devices. I'm pretty sure they don't know when I download a book to read and when I download a book to test. Mostly, I just use them. ;D The two newest ones I've tested on because I have them; some things are best checked on a brand new device.

The point is, Amazon places no restrictions on the number of devices that can be on an account, and allows, as a default, simultaneous use restriction of six devices. Amazon is reader-centric, which is why I have ten devices on my account. :)

I believe that authors can opt out of DRM for the books they publish as I've seen that commented on here. And I don't think there are any restrictions on the number of devices if DRM is removed. Others can speak to that more.

Betsy
 

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Robert Stanek said:
If she wasn't at your house and is capable of turning on and off the Wi-Fi, she probably could just as easily learn to do returns.
You've obviously never met my husband, the Luddite. :D I shudder to think of trying to talk him through doing a return long distance. It's hard enough when he's here in the house. :eek:
 

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Robert Stanek said:
Being reader-centric is one thing; allowing unfair use of works is another; and hiding behind the guise of being reader-centric to allow unreasonable use yet another. A reasonable expectation I as an author have is that my work will be used fairly.
Ah, that's the rub, isn't it? What constitutes fair use? We seem to differ on that. As a reader, I believe that the terms of service that I bought my Kindle under, and that authors agreed to sell their books under, constitutes "fair use." No one is required to sell through Amazon any more than I am required to buy from them.

I hear Barnes & Noble has a more restrictive policy towards readers' rights. 8)

Betsy
 

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Robert Stanek said:
As an author and the creator of the works, I absolutely have the right to question fair use and the absolute right to discuss policies that I do not consider fair use.

Amazon has the means to provide change that would be more consistent and in keeping with fair use.

To be clear also, Amazon already provides such options -- it just provides them to an elite class of the very few.
Absolutely agree with all of the above--this is a discussion forum after all, and I thought we WERE discussing the policies? Not agreeing doesn't mean we aren't discussing. I was just pointing out that you have the absolute right, as an author, to not allow access to your works to a distributor if you think they are not distributing them appropriately. Restricting access to a product is a time-honored way of protest. ;)

I would question the comment you made earlier, however:

Robert Stanek said:
Being reader-centric is one thing; allowing unfair use of works is another; and hiding behind the guise of being reader-centric to allow unreasonable use yet another.
This^ seems to imply that Amazon's goal is to allow unreasonable use. Again, I disagree, I think their goal is to be reader-centric.

Robert Stanek said:
But you left out the easiest part of my response:

Or since she was capable of turning on and off Wi-Fi in the first place, she could simply have turned the Wi-Fi back on when you were prompted that the Wi-Fi needed to be on.

;D
Again, seriously, you don't know my husband. I might be able to talk him through that long distance. He has problems with anything with buttons, including shirts. Bless his heart.

:)

Betsy
 

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Robert--just to clarify something that many new members get confused about.  This subforum is indeed the Writers' Café.  But our overall forum is for Kindle Owners, and the Writers' Café subhead is "Come in, grab a cup of coffee and chat with our authors."  Readers are welcome here.  And, being a discussion forum, they are welcome to express their opinions.  Those opinions, of course, must stay within the bounds of civil discouse.

Folks, I've removed some posts that were off topic and were hovering around the "personal attack" line, threatening to spill over.  And also some posts that responded.  If your post was removed and you have any questions, PM me.

Thanks!

Betsy
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90daysnovel said:
I think other content providers have dealt with this reasonable well - Sony with the PSN, or Netflix with tiered subs for multiple concurrent devices. They set a limit, and ask the end user to manage active devices if they want to download new stuff once they've hit the concurrency limits.
Amazon actually has the same policy -- in most cases the max is set at six concurrent devices. After that you have to remove it from a device to add it to a seventh device.

Betsy
 

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JanneCO said:
I'm with Robert 100% on this. That's pretty much all I'm gonna say about it because for some reason, this forum thinks piracy is no big deal. But whatever to them. I think Pirates are scum and I use DRM and Muso. People read the books once. Twice, maybe, if they are big time fans, three times on three devices? Right.

Thanks for the great thread, Robert. Keep on it.
Sorry, I don't see "the forum" thinking piracy is no big deal. I see some members who have posted thinking it is quite a big deal, including the OP, and others who have posted thinking it is not.

JanneCo, sorry you don't think anyone would be a big enough fan or your works to read them three or more times. :D I read many of my favorite authors' books multiple times. Some of them more than three times, even more than five times, on more than three devices, because I pick up whichever of my 8+ devices is handy and charged. I suppose it could look like three people are reading them at the same time as I switch between devices within the same reading. I've picked up works by my favorite authors that I already have in paper so that I can have them with me on my Kindles. Some of them are downloaded to each of the Kindles I currently have in my possession. We have members who read certain works every year. It's not that unusual.

I have do not pirate (or bootleg as many call it) software, music, books or videos. Never have. Know people who do, unfortunately. But I do not see Amazon's policy of allowing multiple Kindle users on a single account as the same thing as piracy. Amazon's customer-centric policies are one of the main reasons people buy from Amazon. We hear it again and again and again in the other parts of the forum that many of you don't visit. People buy Kindles and Kindle books because of Amazon's customer service reputation. People are willing to take a risk on authors that they've never heard of because of Amazon's policies. I've no doubt that there are people who abuse Amazon's policy. But to decry the policy because there are some people who abuse it is like saying the Internet should be shut down because some people use it to do bad things. IMO. YMMV. WWJD. :)

OK, shoot me down. :D 'Sokay.

Betsy
 
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