Gosh, we've over this so. many. times.

Romance is not the same as romantic. Romance fiction is a fantasy. There's a HEA/HFN for a *reason*.

Write what you want, but if you don't have a HEA or HFN, put it in romance at your peril.

 

Don't mistake a love story for a romance. The two are different. A love story can end without a happy-ever-after or happy-for-now. You can kill the hero or heroine off in a love story. You can't in a romance. The whole point of a romance is to read about a couple falling in love and forming a bond, either permanent in matrimony or a long-term relationship. Killing off one or the other violates the whole reason people read romance.

Period.

It would be like writing a police procedural without any police or procedure. Or a murder mystery without a murder or no mystery.

 

Thus far, judging from my reviews, I pulled off a romance that has both the hero and heroine killed off.

 

Oh gosh this isn't going to go well.

The romance genre is a specific thing with specific guidelines. I almost feel like it needs to get a capital R to distinguish itself from the concept of romantic feelings, or even a romantic arc, within a story because this confuses so many people. (It confused me too at first.) You can have romance in any kind of story, and your story can end any way you want, but if it doesn't end with an HEA or an HFN--which is a requirement of the genre--it doesn't technically fall under the Romance genre, because rules & reader expectations.

Probably the most important two words in the above paragraph are Reader Expectations. Why would you want to alienate readers by classifying your tragic story as Romance? It's like handing people a box of Lucky Charms, and when they find out there are actually Alpha-Bits inside, you're all "Why can't there be Alpha-Bits in the Lucky Charms box? Cheerios are valid. Real life doesn't always have little marshmallows in it."

Don't put Alpha-Bits in the Lucky Charms box and expect people to say, "Oh thank you!!!"

 

I think it's time again for the "Is my book a romance?" flowchart:

 

I think it's time again for the "Is my book a romance?" flowchart:

So, according to this chart, those paranormal romances with one character being undead (not alive) are not romances?

 

What's it called if I write a thriller with no action in it?

You know, I like thrillers, but I don't like the part where people chase each other or try to kill each other or blow things up. I like my thrillers more philosophical. My characters sit around discussing Nietschze, so what kind of thriller am I writing?

 

This was pulled off in The Love Story

 

Bertrice Small wrote books where the heroine had one love, he died, and she moved on to another love--in the same book. But there HAS to be a love at the end...or you aren't a book in the Romance Section 

-S.

 

So, according to this chart, those paranormal romances with one character being undead (not alive) are not romances?

They still function as a person, even if they don't meet the biological definition of alive.

 

There seems to be such difficulty on these boards in understanding what is really an extremely simple concept that I sometimes wonder if it's wilful obtuseness.

 

Think of it this way: Science fiction is about technology, right? But we don't actually all fly around in faster than light spaceships. So take those out. Also aliens. And other planets. Not realistic at all. In real life, technology is mostly used in the form of fiddling with one's cell phone and watching Netflix. So write a book about somebody fiddling with a cell phone and marathoning House of Cards and bam!! Science fiction revolutionary!!!

Except... not really.

 

There seems to be such difficulty on these boards in understanding what is really an extremely simple concept that I sometimes wonder if it's wilful obtuseness.

I'm beginning to wonder about that myself. Seems like every other week there's someone trying to redefine a genre to suit themselves.

This was pulled off in The Love Story

No, it wasn't.

LMAOOOOOO!
The romance genre is so insufferable.

No, it isn't. The genre is what readers want and expect from the stories they like. Most writers prefer not to be disrespectful to people who give them money.

 

This was pulled off in The Love Story

"Love Story" is a (tragic) love story, not a romance.

The problem arises out of the appropriation of the older genre of Romantic Fiction as a genre name. One can dislike that fact (I do), but that still doesn't change what readers expect to find in a current genre romance story.

 

Or it could be that Kalel simply wants to discuss the possibilities with

For those who write romance

because he or she is trying to work through something in his/her narrative. Perhaps, just perhaps Kalel wasn't seeking a reprimand on misunderstanding the 'definition' of romance.

Therefore ...

I recently read a novel (soundly entrenched in the romance genre at least according to the readers who recommend it) where the hero is killed at the end. The writer uses the death (through two novels in fact) to develop the heroine's arc. It was rather a crushing blow at the end of book one but it helped the (h) grow from a young, naive woman into a self-possessed (h) who had the capacity to be in a mature relationship.
It worked well for that writer.

Cheers,
A

 

I'm beginning to wonder about that myself. Seems like every other week there's someone trying to redefine a genre to suit themselves.

It's mostly people trying to redefine romance, though. I don't see nearly as many redefinition attempts for fantasy or SF or mystery.

Anyway, folks, you can write whatever you want, including love stories where the hero or heroine dies or the couple breaks up. Just please don't try to market those as romance, because they are not.

 

This was pulled off in The Love Story

Once again, Love Story (not The Love Story) is NOT a romance novel. It's not shelved in Romance, it's not considered Romance--by anyone on the planet except, apparently, you.

 

What's it called if I write a thriller with no action in it?

You know, I like thrillers, but I don't like the part where people chase each other or try to kill each other or blow things up. I like my thrillers more philosophical. My characters sit around discussing Nietschze, so what kind of thriller am I writing?

What?? Thrillers need action? Next thing you're going to be telling us is that mysteries need to be solved at the end.

 

If you want to do this, give it a try, but don't complain about the one star reviews and/or returns.

 

I love Cherise's example. 

As I have said before, the root problem is that writers look at genre as a prison that has to be broken. Genre is not your enemy. It is your friend. The purpose of genre definitions is to HELP YOUR READERS FIND YOU! Genre is your best ally. Pick the right genre for your book, instead of the genre you think 'sells' the best, and you will find loyal readers. I am glad that romance readers vigorously push back against authors who disrespect them. And make no mistake, you ARE disrespecting your readers when you call your book a romance but then deliver something that is not a romance. You are treating them like children in a patronizing way that essentially claims you know better than the reader does what the reader wants. I only wish we horror fans had pushed back as hard in the 80s when the whole "paranormal" thing got started and our beloved genre became overrun by whiny, vegetarian supermodels with sun allergies who spend the entire "horror" novel talking about their feelings.But we didn't, and now we suffer for it because the horror genre has been diluted to make it difficult to find actual scare-the-crap-out-of-you horror.

Instead of trying to justify why a story should be "allowed" to be crammed into a genre that it does not belong, decide what the true point of your story is and then put it in the genre it belongs so that people who enjoy those stories can find it. A love story in which one or both characters dies is not a Romance. But it could be any number of things depending on the narrative direction. It might be women's lit, family saga, literary, or something else.

Become literate on what these genres are and, more importantly, what they mean to readers. Put your book where it belongs, not where you think the easy sales are.

 

Sparks caters to people who think Romeo and Juliet is a romance despite being about how stupid and immature the leads are.

 

If you don't enjoy romance, or don't believe it is realistic (that is, that people can and do stay together and love each other), you don't have to write it. As Julie says, write whatever you like, just put it in the right category.

I think the reason I can sell it is that I believe it--that you can have a relationship that you can hang your hat on, hang your life on. That you can find a partner who will be your rock in life, so that whatever you face, you're not facing it alone. (I wrote that into my first book, by the way. That's his big declaration--that whatever she faces, he'll be there to face it with her. Because that, to me, is love.)

I'm married to the man I met 35 years ago. He's still great-looking, and he still treats me like a queen. So yeah, I think it's real. I don't even think I write fantasy, she says bravely. I write realistic people (OK, the guys have better bodies than average--but they look, well, like your basic New Zealand rugby star or whatever! They're not all handsome, and they're not unrealistic for their profession) coming together in pretty realistic ways, working through the obstacles people have in relationships and in life. Jobs, families, friends. I write about lots of other stuff, but my readers put up with it because they know that they'll have a happy, satisfying, believable ending that will leave them with the warm fuzzies. That's what romance is. Just like thrillers provide the visceral, well, thrill of the good guys winning and the bad guys dead.

P.S. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Nicholas S. was cheating on his wife for years. Just my guess. So no, I'd also bet she'd say their story wasn't really a romance.

 

Once again, Love Story (not The Love Story) is NOT a romance novel. It's not shelved in Romance, it's not considered Romance--by anyone on the planet except, apparently, you.

I think the confusion is that it IS listed as Literary Fiction>Romance: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Story-heartbreaking-international-phenomenon-ebook/dp/B005UCVVA6/ref=sr_1_2_twi_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423668178&sr=8-2&keywords=Love+story

Rosalind, I don't think only people who believe love lasts can write romance. I also think some people who DO believe it can aren't romance writers. I've been married to Dave for almost 42 years, and he is still the love of my life. So far, I haven't written m/f romance, although I do write gay. I do have strong love stories in some of my books, though. I think I don't write m/f romance (at least so far) because I have lived it and it isn't interesting to me to write about. I enjoy reading and writing about things different from me. :0 So, while I respect your reasons for writing it, I think reasons vary greatly, but as to why and why not. ANd who knows? Someday I might. I have a series on the back burner about a group of artist friends and I have no idea what genre they will end up in, but there are love stories involved...

Oh my gosh. Gasp! Could Caddy Rowland actually end up with happy endings in every book in a series? Maybe. I don't like being predictable, so it could happen. (heh heh)

 

I think the confusion is that it IS listed as Literary Fiction>Romance: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Story-heartbreaking-international-phenomenon-ebook/dp/B005UCVVA6/ref=sr_1_2_twi_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423668178&sr=8-2&keywords=Love+story

True, but (and this isn't aimed at you) literary romance isn't the same as category romance.