Science-Fantasy

4913 Views 70 Replies 36 Participants Last post by Becca Mills, Jun 8, 2015

Becca Mills

Discussion Starter · Jun 5, 2015

I was just reading Joe Vasicek's thread on finding SF readers and noticed several people identifying their work as "science-fantasy." I think of my work that way also, though more on the fantasy than the sci-fi side (vs. something like Star Wars, which is markedly more sci-fi than fantasy, I think).

So, I'm curious: How many KBers consider their work "science-fantasy" (or choose your own term for work that hybridizes fantasy and sci-fi)? What elements from the two genre groupings do you blend together? How do you market your work, given its potential square-peg-ism?

Also, is science-fantasy becoming more common? It's certainly not new, and a very successful recent traditionally published series comes to mind -- Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl books, which are just about a perfect 50-50 blend. But I was sort of surprised to see so many people identifying themselves as science-fantasy writers on Joe's thread. I think I'd put C. Gockel in that category, too, though I don't know if she embraces the label. Her books are definitely science-y.

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vrabinec

· #2 · Jun 5, 2015

I'm still arguing with people on sci-fi boards about whether or not Star Wars is considered sci-fi or science fantasy. There are those who insist that the "magic" isn't magic at all, but rather the result of the fictitious Midi-chlorians, which are "scientific". So, maybe a clear definition of science fantasy should be established. I fall on the side of, it's only science fantasy, if the magic isn't presented as a scientific process. I'm not sure I see the "magic" in Nolander. It feels scientific to me.

Nancy Chase

· #3 · Jun 5, 2015

My current work in progress skirts the border of science fiction/science fantasy. It doesn't have "magic" exactly (at least not as fantasy novels usually define it), but it deals a lot with dreamscapes and myth and the collective unconscious, so I have a feeling it will attract fantasy readers as much as sci fi readers.

It's still in the 2nd draft stage, though, so I can't be much help to you on the marketing aspects!

Becca Mills

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jun 5, 2015

vrabinec said:
I'm still arguing with people on sci-fi boards about whether or not Star Wars is considered sci-fi or science fantasy. There are those who insist that the "magic" isn't magic at all, but rather the result of the fictitious Midi-chlorians, which are "scientific". So, maybe a clear definition of science fantasy should be established. I fall on the side of, it's only science fantasy, if the magic isn't presented as a scientific process. I'm not sure I see the "magic" in Nolander. It feels scientific to me.

You know, I think the midi-chlorian thing was probably Lucas's effort to push the series completely into sci-fi. He even chose a name that sounds a lot like a real cell organelle (mitochondria), which makes it sound more real, less woo-woo and non-scientific. But that explanation wasn't there in the original trilogy. Even with the explanation, if "fantasy is the impossible made probable," while "science fiction is the improbable made possible" (Rod Sterling's definition), the Force itself is firmly in the "impossible" category. So ... yeah. Science-fantasy, in my book.

That's so interesting that Nolander feels scientific to you. Just goes to show how hard it is to pin this stuff down! You have to admit, though, that there's a lot of "impossible" in it, despite the science-y feel.

Nancy Chase said:
My current work in progress skirts the border of science fiction/science fantasy. It doesn't have "magic" exactly (at least not as fantasy novels usually define it), but it deals a lot with dreamscapes and myth and the collective unconscious, so I have a feeling it will attract fantasy readers as much as sci fi readers.

Sounds cool, Nancy. Lucas was influenced by Jungian ideas, too (via Joseph Campbell).

Douglas Milewski

· #5 · Jun 5, 2015

Science fantasy is pretty old and used to be extremely common. Think John Carter of Mars. In the 50's and 60's, "psychic powers" were the SF equivalent of magic. The real telltale is in the explaining trope. If you could easily swap the trope from science to magic, or magic to science, then you have science-fantasy. The exact definition has changed over the years as the genres have wobbled about.

In my opinion, the entire Marvel Universe is science-fantasy. All the mutants may as well be magic.

C. Michael Wells

· #6 · Jun 5, 2015

I classify what I write as science fantasy, though it will most likely be categoried as fantasy on Amazon. I think readers of one are typically readers of the other, but the high fantasy and hard sci-fi readers would probably disagree.

vrabinec

· #7 · Jun 5, 2015

Becca Mills said:
That's so interesting that Nolander feels scientific to you. Just goes to show how hard it is to pin this stuff down! You have to admit, though, that there's a lot of "impossible" in it, despite the science-y feel.

Yeah, and it starts out with a Charles de Lint urban fantasy feel to it, but by the time it's done, it felt more like a Verner Vinge, only without all the space ship scenes.

As for Lucas, he SAID he never intended it to be magic.

Becca Mills

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 5, 2015

C. Michael Wells said:
I classify what I write as science fantasy, though it will most likely be categoried as fantasy on Amazon. I think readers of one are typically readers of the other, but the high fantasy and hard sci-fi readers would probably disagree.

I'm thinking one has to choose either the fantasy or the sci-fi categories. Or maybe not? I honestly don't know. I've stuck to fantasy myself so far.

Douglas Milewski said:
Science fantasy is pretty old and used to be extremely common. Think John Carter of Mars. In the 50's and 60's, "psychic powers" were the SF equivalent of magic. The real telltale is in the explaining trope. If you could easily swap the trope from science to magic, or magic to science, then you have science-fantasy. The exact definition has changed over the years as the genres have wobbled about.

In my opinion, the entire Marvel Universe is science-fantasy. All the mutants may as well be magic.

Yeah, that era is my primary associate with the term, which gives it a dated feel. I've also heard the term "hard fantasy" batted around, but just try putting that into Amazon's search engine!

I like this definition: "If you could easily swap the trope from science to magic, or magic to science, then you have science-fantasy." Though I imagine some would object that science-fantasy tropes aren't truly portable into science (you end up with something that sounds sciencey but actually isn't, like the midi-chlorian/Force thing).

vrabinec said:
As for Lucas, he SAID he never intended it to be magic.

Huh. I wonder if he could trot out a sciencey explanation for the Force.

fantasy-writer

· #9 · Jun 5, 2015

I titled my fantasy series "Sorcery and Science".

It's set in a world divided by magic and technology, so there are definitely elements of both. The books just feel more like fantasy than science fiction to me, so that's where I put them.

Becca Mills

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 5, 2015

Ella Summers said:
I titled my fantasy series "Sorcery and Science".

It's set in a world divided by magic and technology, so there are definitely elements of both. The books just feel more like fantasy than science fiction to me, so that's where I put them.

Wow, your covers are awesome.

I see an airship in the background of Book 1. Does the sci-fi side of things have a steampunk flavor?

C. Gockel

· #11 · Jun 5, 2015

I'm going to say your books are Sci-Fantasy, Becca. But it gets difficult. I don't think merely having a scientific explanation of magic makes a book sci-fi. My characters call the things they do with dark energy "magic", so if they call it magic, I think I should too ... even if I borrow liberally from quantum theory.

JalexM

· #12 · Jun 5, 2015

I'd say my series is science fantasy, but I label it just as science fiction. There is no magic, but there are unexplainable things in the book that have no scientific bases.

fantasy-writer

· #13 · Jun 5, 2015

Becca Mills said:
Wow, your covers are awesome.

I see an airship in the background of Book 1. Does the sci-fi side of things have a steampunk flavor?

Thank you!

The covers were done by Rebecca Weaver (who's on this board from time to time), and she's super awesome.

The airships are high-tech rather than steampunk, and they are widely used in my world. Planes have a tendency to drop out of the sky whenever they fly over the no-tech magic area.

There are floating cities too.

Becca Mills

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jun 5, 2015

C. Michael Wells said:
I classify what I write as science fantasy, though it will most likely be categoried as fantasy on Amazon. I think readers of one are typically readers of the other, but the high fantasy and hard sci-fi readers would probably disagree.

That sounds about right. Maybe it's like a continuum, with very hard sci-fi on one end and high epic fantasy on the other, each pole having a dedicated set of readers, with a big area in the middle where readers might jump around a bit.

It sure would be nice if Amazon had a science-fantasy category. DriveThruFiction does, but I think that's the only one of the retailers.

Ella Summers said:
Thank you! The covers were done by Rebecca Weaver (who's on this board from time to time), and she's super awesome.

The airships are high-tech rather than steampunk, and they are widely used in my world. Planes have a tendency to drop out of the sky whenever they fly over the no-tech magic area.

There are floating cities too.

Cool! It reminds me slightly of Ilona Andrews's Kate Daniels series, but that has the whole world switching back and forth between tech and magic. The idea of a patchwork of tech and magic areas is pretty awesome. <idea envy!>

JalexM said:
I'd say my series is science fantasy, but I label it just as science fiction. There is no magic, but there are unexplainable things in the book that have no scientific bases.

Yeah, that's like Star Wars. On the other hand, any sufficiently advanced technology will appear like magic, eh? (Who said that?) So just because things are unexplainable to one's POV characters doesn't mean they don't have a scientific explanation that someone in the book's universe would know. I guess ...

C. Gockel said:
I'm going to say your books are Sci-Fantasy, Becca. But it gets difficult. I don't think merely having a scientific explanation of magic makes a book sci-fi. My characters call the things they do with dark energy "magic", so if they call it magic, I think I should too ... even if I borrow liberally from quantum theory.

Yeah, I agree, C. Everything may have a sciencey flavor, but it's still fantasy. Still, that flavor does make your books "feel" different to me from a lot of more traditional works of urban fantasy. It's not just the explanation of magic, I think, but the multiple planets and the emphasis on (contemporary) human tech, medicine, and computing. The series turns a friendly and interested face toward science throughout.

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B.J. Keeton

· #15 · Jun 5, 2015

I write science-fantasy, but the marketing is a nightmare, so I tend to use SF Adventure and Space Opera as my main categories. I used to use Epic Fantasy and Space Opera, but I found that was kind of awkward. I am still tempted to go back to that for my series as people never really complained. It's a fantasy narrative in an SF world, and the description says that.

I'm kind of playing with numbers and seeing what happens. Have you guys ever had any luck with splitting categories so drastically between an SF and Fantasy one?

Cactus Lady

· #16 · Jun 5, 2015

2

Not mine, but I want to throw it out here for anyone looking for science-fantasy books. Space opera, but the magic is real magic, there's no attempt at pseudo-scientific explanations. I think the combination works really well.

There are other books in the series, but these are the two I've read so far. He seems to have them in Science Fiction, but I think they would work well in Epic Fantasy, because there are spaceships and stuff, but it's really about the magic. Basically epic fantasy in a futuristic space-opera setting instead of the more common low-tech settings.

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Shei Darksbane

· #17 · Jun 5, 2015

Star Wars is the textbook definition of Space Opera.

I count my wife's book as Space Opera. It fits into that genre best.
It COULD be called Science Fantasy, and frankly, as a reader, before learning author stuff? I'd have called it Sci-Fi because as a layman, Sci-Fi was anything futuristic, spacey, or sciencey. Everything else regardless...

So yeah. It's pretty bendable.

Becca Mills

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jun 5, 2015

B.J. Keeton said:
I write science-fantasy, but the marketing is a nightmare, so I tend to use SF Adventure and Space Opera as my main categories. I used to use Epic Fantasy and Space Opera, but I found that was kind of awkward. I am still tempted to go back to that for my series as people never really complained. It's a fantasy narrative in an SF world, and the description says that.

I'm kind of playing with numbers and seeing what happens. Have you guys ever had any luck with splitting categories so drastically between an SF and Fantasy one?

I haven't. The idea has always made me nervous, so I've kept mine entirely in the fantasy categories. Although, come to think of it, people have called the book "sci-fi" in reviews. Dunno. I guess I'm very conditioned to think of "real sci-fi" as being just certain types of things, and what I do doesn't fit any of them. Like Shei said: you see space ships, you think "sci-fi"! Genre sense can be pretty deeply ingrained.

It seems worth a try, B.J., especially if you were doing it before and didn't get any outraged "what the heck is this??" reviews.

tiffanycherney

· #19 · Jun 5, 2015

My latest series is definitely science fantasy, though I've put it in scifi for setting reasons, with everything happening on alien planets and ships I don't feel comfortable classifying it beyond a few keywords in the fantasy category. Magic runs pretty deep in the series, while it fuels basically all the technology it also can be used in the traditional way such as throwing a fireball at someone. As far as marketing I don't do anything special though I have coined the series as "magic driven space opera"in advertising short descriptions so people have some better idea of what they're getting into.

AlexisR

· #20 · Jun 5, 2015

When I first glanced at this topic, I'd never heard the term "science fantasy" before and assumed it applied to fantasy worlds where the magic systems used consistent logic based on real-world scientific principles, so it was amusing to scroll through and discover you all describe it as totally the opposite of that.

It must be because I was just in the Patrick Rothfuss AMA thread on Reddit and somebody was asking him super-technical (fascinating) questions about the physics behind his magic system... ::)

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