Liliana, that's a lot of angst. Here's a suggestion. Just watch the whole process (of evolution in the publishing industry) unfold without attaching any of your thoughts or emotions to it. When the 'stigma' starts popping into your brain, as it does and will continue to, just acknowledge it but don't attach any emotions to it. Focus on your writing and let the process happen.  

 

"So how do we as indie authors change, not our readers' thinking, but the thinking of other writers?"

Tell them you're getting 70% of retail wire transfered to your bank every month.

 

Good post  As for naysayers - I say be enthusiastic.  It's hard for people to "pity" you when you're excited and full of enthusiasm

 

I feel like I could have written this post, word for word. Seriously.

6 months ago, if you'd told me I was going to self-publish, I would have laughed at you. Self-publishing? Pshaw. That's what hacks do. In my defense, I took a year off from the writing world because of a new baby and hadn't been paying attention to the new paradigm. I had never heard of Amanda Hocking until I jumped back into writing in January after my self-imposed maternity leave.

The worldview had changed. Self-publishing was suddenly viable and a legitimate option.

 

But here's the problem: The stigma that goes along with being a self-published author is still out there. It's not as bad, but it still exists.

So how do we as indie authors change, not our readers' thinking, but the thinking of other writers?

At the risk of being crass, who cares?

Maybe I'm just different. Writing isn't in my soul; it's not something I always dreamed of doing. It's something I decided to do to see if I would like it. And once I decided I did like it, it's something I decided to try to make a business out of. I take exception to your statement that writers have problems with self-esteem and need to be stroked. The hell I do! I know my worth quite well, thank you. And because I do, I could really give a rat's patootey what some nose-in-the-air types may or may not think about what I'm doing.

Because here's the thing: this is a business. Not an artists' retreat, or a love-fest, or whatever. A business. And in business, the most important validation is cash flow: making a profit. If you're making $ selling stories the indie route, then it's a valid business. If you're making $ selling traditionally, then that's a valid business too. What isn't valid is to turn your nose up and assuming condescending airs at what someone else is doing with their business, just because it's different from what you think is the "right" way. Not that it matters anyway. You know whose opinion matters? Your customers', that's who.

Riddle me this, Liliana: how much $ do those who look down on you for taking this path make in their business, compared with what you make with yours?

I say screw 'em if they can't take a joke. You don't need to take being condescended to. Make new friends.

 

I think that every major undertaking that's truly worth doing will have detractors--sometimes many times more detractors than supporters.  That doesn't make it any less worthwhile.  If you're self-publishing for the right reasons, and being smart about it, there's absolutely no need to pay any attention to these detractors.

 

I'm just published - an Indie or self, but better than not - and I can refer you to a bunch of readers that have graced me with their imagination and could care less who published me . . . and I guess there's another school . . . but then there was this ship called the Titanic and as unsinkable as it was . . . it lingers in our imaginations from the debpths of the sea.

Edward C. Patterson

 

" I take exception to your statement that writers have problems with self-esteem and need to be stroked. The hell I do! "

Amen, Brother! Let the good times roll...

 

I feel like I could have written this post, word for word. Seriously.

6 months ago, if you'd told me I was going to self-publish, I would have laughed at you. Self-publishing? Pshaw. That's what hacks do. In my defense, I took a year off from the writing world because of a new baby and hadn't been paying attention to the new paradigm. I had never heard of Amanda Hocking until I jumped back into writing in January after my self-imposed maternity leave.

The worldview had changed. Self-publishing was suddenly viable and a legitimate option.

Me too, exactly (but without the maternity leave).

 

"So how do we as indie authors change, not our readers' thinking, but the thinking of other writers?"

Tell them you're getting 70% of retail wire transfered to your bank every month.

This.

 

I can sympathize. 

This is how I looked at it in until finally deciding that I didn't need anyone else's validation.  Besides, in anything we do in life, won't there be someone who looks down on us?  I know Stephen King has written about people who have criticized his writing simply because it's horror.  And he's one of our most successful writers. 

What's funny is I've always felt this because I write for children and teens.  People I love and care about have actually said to me, "When are you going to write for adults?"  The answer?  Um...probably never. I'm very immature.  

So, while I do think attitudes about indie publishing are changing, it really shouldn't matter one way or the other.  You should just do what makes you happy!   

 

"Because here's the thing: this is a business. Not an artists' retreat, or a love-fest, or whatever."

I agree. This is a business. But the business part, to me at least, always comes second. You don't have a product if you're not writing. And if the writing is clinical and there's no passion behind it then you don't have much of a business. I've never met an author who's in this business for the money.

 

In US now authors are happily skipping between indie and trad publishing. In UK it's very much Us and Them. And it's the trad authors who are perpetuating this by setting themselves and their books as superior to indie. It reminds me a lot of the beginnings of women's lib, when it was women rather than men who let the side down. I get depressed every day about the fact that I'm only an indie author because I've FAILED to get a trad contract, while colleagues on critique sites the same time are getting contracts and being PROPERLY published. I'm on the verge of going self-employed as an author. I'll be on a poverty income but marginally more than I've been getting on health benefits. I don't know what the answer is. I'm fed up of the abuse and slagging off on forums. I resent that as an indie author I get that every day while 'properly published' authors don't.

Sadly, I often find the only way I can cope is to distance myself from the authors taking the trad route and 'socialise' more with other indies.

 

I think you need to congratulate yourself for having the courage to not only think outside the box, but step outside of it alone.  It isn't easy to suddenly move away from what your friends think is acceptable.

Their view is narrow now, but I think you may find them joining you in one to two years when their heads become bloodied and bowed from knocking them against publisher's bastions trying to get in.

I think at some point, the traditional route and the Indie route will go hand and hand.  People are already seeing benefits of having a foot in both camps.

Ultimately, since your passion is the art of writing itself, then you are doing the only thing someone who feels like you, should do.  You have found a way to be READ.  And you did it yourself.  Bravo!  Welcome to the cracker factory where most look down on us and we...just....don't....care. 

 

"Because here's the thing: this is a business. Not an artists' retreat, or a love-fest, or whatever."

I agree. This is a business. But the business part, to me at least, always comes second. You don't have a product if you're not writing. And if the writing is clinical and there's no passion behind it then you don't have much of a business. I've never met an author who's in this business for the money.

Lilana, I want to say that I'm glad I read your post and I agree with you completely.
Like any field, there are people who are in it for various reasons.
There are people who are in it simply to try and make money (I guess no one ever told them better), and some that hold a passion for it and view it as the art form it can be.
I think that while the two camps share similarities (and others, I'm sure), there are just some differences that won't be bridged.
But despite some of the differences, both sides can possess talent.

There can be writers who don't care much for their craft, but are thoroughly brilliant and still produce wonderful pieces.
And there are writers who, for as much as they love their writing, simply don't have a gift for putting words on paper.
It happens.

But I will say I'm glad to see the strong shift in support and opportunities for self-published writers.
I know that several years ago I wouldn't have had a chance in the publishing world.
I just didn't have the means or time it takes to coordinate with agents and publishing houses, but thanks to the shift in being able to do most of this at home, I was able to publish my first novel a few months ago and am well at work on the second.

More than anything, I'm exceptionally curious as to what the future holds.

 

I'm in this for the money. Being in something for monies doesn't mean you should do a poor job of it and that's a stigma on its own

This is an interesting point of view of writing to me because Lord knows making a lot of money from writing isn't something that happens to the majority.

 

I'm not saying that if you decide you want to be a writer and publish your books, that you shouldn't go all out and try to market right, gather fans and make tons of money. If you decide to put yourself out there you should do it with confidence, which is the point of my original post. My previous comment was just that when people are looking for ways to make money, they don't normally say, "Hey, I think I'll write books." Most writers fall in love with the writing first. It's something they've always done, and so it's a natural progression to turn something you love into a business.

 

My previous comment was just that when people are looking for ways to make money, they don't normally say, "Hey, I think I'll write books." Most writers fall in love with the writing first.

Very true. Most writers are smart enough to be doing something else that will make much more money than writing. Writers deal with bad odds and low hourly compensation because they enjoy writing.

I made much more money purchasing and expediting equipment for building liquid natural gas facilities than I'll ever make writing, but I quit that because it was so stressful it didn't leave me any mental energy to write.

 

Personally, I am over any so-called stigma of self-publishing.

I'm ready to proudly self-pub my novel later this year.

I abandoned my MC for several years, for various reasons. Now I am back to it, and having a great time revising it. Have I decided to self-pub it because I don't think it's 'good enough?' Heck no. But I work 50-60 hour weeks at my day job. I just don't have the time or the desire to deal with queries and agent searches and all that. I don't need to be famous. I just wrote a story I love and others have told me they love it, too. I am ready to put it out there and see if anyone else wants to read it. What have I got to lose?

If enough people like it and I can make some $ as a writer, fabulous. If not, I still wrote a story I am proud of and I still have my day job.

 

As I've said several times, elitism and snobbery exist in all art forms. Writing is no different than fine art, ballet, theater, or music...etc...

It is what it is.

It would be great if we were all just authors, and there was no "us vs. them."
Sadly, human nature takes over, and it's inevitable. If we lived in a hypothetical world where there was no "indie vs. TP" and each author had "one foot in each camp" with some books published independently, and other books published by commercial publishers the haters/snobs would find another reason to look down on somebody else. Either because one genre will be seen as "for hacks" or because X editing company is better than Y editing company, or someone took a creative writing class in college but others didn't...

Snobbery will always be there, sad but true.

You can either let the snobs win, and hide away and let their pathetic words destroy your self-esteem or simply ignore it. I chose to ignore it.

 

At the risk of being crass, who cares?

Maybe I'm just different. Writing isn't in my soul; it's not something I always dreamed of doing. It's something I decided to do to see if I would like it. And once I decided I did like it, it's something I decided to try to make a business out of. I take exception to your statement that writers have problems with self-esteem and need to be stroked. The hell I do! I know my worth quite well, thank you. And because I do, I could really give a rat's patootey what some nose-in-the-air types may or may not think about what I'm doing.

Because here's the thing: this is a business. Not an artists' retreat, or a love-fest, or whatever. A business. And in business, the most important validation is cash flow: making a profit. If you're making $ selling stories the indie route, then it's a valid business. If you're making $ selling traditionally, then that's a valid business too. What isn't valid is to turn your nose up and assuming condescending airs at what someone else is doing with their business, just because it's different from what you think is the "right" way. Not that it matters anyway. You know whose opinion matters? Your customers', that's who.

Riddle me this, Liliana: how much $ do those who look down on you for taking this path make in their business, compared with what you make with yours?

I say screw 'em if they can't take a joke. You don't need to take being condescended to. Make new friends.

You're not different. I feel the same way, except I have always wanted to be a writer.

And I fall in the same camp as Amanda and Liliana. Six months ago I would have laughed at the thought of self-publishing. I was in it for the long haul and that just wasn't the way. Then I started reading about the changes in publishing and following what was really happening. Then the light bulb went on and I got really excited. Finally a way to have control over my career. Finally a way to jump in with both feet and run with it. On my own terms.

My first book is coming out next month and I'm looking forward to the long journey in my publishing career that six months ago could only be called a dream.

Luckily my friends and family are nothing but supportive. My RWA writer's group is embracing the self-publishing world, too.

It's exciting and I don't care who knows I am self-publishing. In fact, I'm proud I've put myself out there.

 

As I've said several times, elitism and snobbery exist in all art forms. Writing is no different than fine art, ballet, theater, or music...etc...

You can either let the snobs win, and hide away and let their pathetic words destroy your self-esteem or simply ignore it. I chose to ignore it.

So, so true. I am a glass artist and I sell my stuff on eBay and Etsy. I was at an industry trade show talking about how I was teaching a young artist to run an online business and a "known" artist overheard me and scoffed, "How hard is it to learn to list stuff on line?" He snickered and walked off. Today I read a post online from him about how his business was failing and he needed to reinvent himself.

I just had my best month ever last month. It was hard not to type a response.

If an author is scoffing at self-publishing they likely have their head in the sand and who knows, they may wake up a year or two down the road wondering what happened to their career because of it.

 

I can totally relate to the whole stigma thing.

I do get puzzled when people equate all forms of self-publishing with vanity publications. It's one thing to have a stigma hanging over you... quite another matter, however, to have another sector's stigma trailing overhead. And, yes, I know that there are at times blurry lines between SP and vanity presses; but I still think it's a bit much to lump all self-published work together.

Yet all you do is focus on your own work, right?

 

It's not a "dirty word" to me. It's all about perspective: like Dara said; the royalties speak for themselves. Read Konrath's blog, he'll put the whole ball-o-wax in perspective.

As a reader, I don't care if someone is "Indie" or "Legacy." I just want to buy the best read for the least expense. That's how I came to buy mainly Indie. It's not about "being supportive," (although I love to support other Indies) it's about cost. Obviously, the quality writers can be Indie or Traditional. They don't have to be one or the other to be great. I have nothing against traditional publishing except it's become extremely restrictive and they need to diversify; fast. I still have an author catalog that I love that remain traditionally published. And, I have a new catalog that aren't; non-issue.

Ultimately, it is the readers' opinions that matter. (I love being able to write a book and get it to my readers right away, it's like a gift to us both!)

I just wish I'd gone Indie sooner...

 

It seems to me your only enemies are your own self doubts. Kill those bastards, or at least gag them and throw them in the closet. Then you can get about living and enjoying every moment. Past mistakes brought you to today, so don't keep reliving and squirming over them. Not all writers are needy. Some of us have spines.