[CassieL]

I understand that ghostwritten books are part of some people's publishing model, but it was never something that was openly advertised or discussed much here. I seem to recall it being attacked and frowned on when it did come up. But now we're getting multiple posts with advertisements for books to sell? And a senior member I wouldn't have expected to do so responded positively? When did that shift happen? When did Kboards become a place to advertise ghostwritten books for sale? Gives a little more credence to JA Huss's rant about Kboards a few weeks ago that at the time seemed a little extreme to me.

 

[vagabond.voyager]

I understand that ghostwritten books are part of some people's publishing model, but it was never something that was openly advertised or discussed much here. I seem to recall it being attacked and frowned on when it did come up. But now we're getting multiple posts with advertisements for books to sell? And a senior member I wouldn't have expected to do so responded positively? When did that shift happen? When did Kboards become a place to advertise ghostwritten books for sale? Gives a little more credence to JA Huss's rant about Kboards a few weeks ago that at the time seemed a little extreme to me.

What I can't fathom is that if someone has a book that is viable for successful publishing by another person, why would they sell it outright rather than publish it? It seems a little like cooking a meal then trying to sell it to a restaurant.

 

[GeneDoucette]

I think it indicates that business models are shifting, for some. It's not for me, but I'm not going to complain about someone else's plan.

 

[Anarchist]

I suspect it's the result of work-at-home forums/FB groups promoting it as a way to make money from writing.

Also, many authors are having a difficult time making a living from their books as competition heats up and ads increasingly drive visibility. Those unwilling to go back to day jobs are pursuing ghostwriting as an alternative.

KB is where they start looking for clients.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

I agree with Anarchist... I suspect it's mostly folks who can't make it any other way in writing who turn to ghostwriting (both those buying, and those selling).

Speaking as an inveterate reader all my life... I pretty much instantly dismiss any book that I discover (or sense) has been ghostwritten.  To me, it simply smacks of dishonesty.

The other issue is simply... quality.  There's always been a bell curve to writing.  There's a reason that wonderful writing - those stories that touch our soul, those words composed such that they take our breath away - happen the way that they do.  On the other extreme is the stuff so awful that it literally hurts your brain to read it.  And then there's that gliding curve in the middle that marries up those two.

"Who was the ghostwriter that actually wrote this mesmerizing piece?" said no one ever.

That's because ghostwriting lives amongst the dreck.

 

[Gabriel_Legend]

I agree with Anarchist... I suspect it's mostly folks who can't make it any other way in writing who turn to ghostwriting (both those buying, and those selling).

Speaking as an inveterate reader all my life... I pretty much instantly dismiss any book that I discover (or sense) has been ghostwritten. To me, it simply smacks of dishonesty.

The other issue is simply... quality. There's always been a bell curve to writing. There's a reason that wonderful writing - those stories that touch our soul, those words composed such that they take our breath away - happen the way that they do. On the other extreme is the stuff so awful that it literally hurts your brain to read it. And then there's that gliding curve in the middle that marries up those two.

"Who was the ghostwriter that actually wrote this mesmerizing piece?" said no one ever.

That's because ghostwriting lives amongst the dreck.

Well, I can appreciate your opinions, but I'm a ghostwriter, and everything I write is top quality. I would love to be able to make a living by publishing my books, but the sad fact is, I have bills to pay and by the time I make enough for my bills writing for other people, there is very little time left to work on my own stuff.

I've been writing online for 15 years - mostly articles and blog posts - for various writing agencies. I'd much rather be earning the money I need for my bills by writing fiction - even if it for other people - because it's fiction that made me fall in love with writing in the first place. So, you can assume that anything ghostwritten is poor quality but you would be wrong. I even included (in my ghostwriting thread on this page) a rough draft of a chapter from a book I'm writing for Harlequin Intrigue, and as you will see, the writing is pretty damn good.

So, while I can appreciate that some ghostwriting is garbage; mine is not. I've been hired by several ghostwriting agencies with high standards. I left because they wanted a 50,000 word novel in two weeks and I still had a few regular clients that sent me good-paying articles. I couldn't keep up. But the books I wrote for those agencies are on Amazon, with great reviews, and with bestseller ranks to show that they are still selling.

 

[Ebook Proofreading]

I think it indicates that business models are shifting, for some. It's not for me, but I'm not going to complain about someone else's plan.

I agree! It's a free world.

Well, I can appreciate your opinions, but I'm a ghostwriter, and everything I write is top quality. I would love to be able to make a living by publishing my books, but the sad fact is, I have bills to pay and by the time I make enough for my bills writing for other people, there is very little time left to work on my own stuff.

I've been writing online for 15 years - mostly articles and blog posts - for various writing agencies. I'd much rather be earning the money I need for my bills by writing fiction - even if it for other people - because it's fiction that made me fall in love with writing in the first place. So, you can assume that anything ghostwritten is poor quality but you would be wrong. I even included (in my ghostwriting thread on this page) a rough draft of a chapter from a book I'm writing for Harlequin Intrigue, and as you will see, the writing is pretty damn good.

So, while I can appreciate that some ghostwriting is garbage; mine is not. I've been hired by several ghostwriting agencies with high standards. I left because they wanted a 50,000 word novel in two weeks and I still had a few regular clients that sent me good-paying articles. I couldn't keep up. But the books I wrote for those agencies are on Amazon, with great reviews, and with bestseller ranks to show that they are still selling.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Well, I can appreciate your opinions, but I'm a ghostwriter, and everything I write is top quality. I would love to be able to make a living by publishing my books, but the sad fact is, I have bills to pay and by the time I make enough for my bills writing for other people, there is very little time left to work on my own stuff.

I've been writing online for 15 years - mostly articles and blog posts - for various writing agencies. I'd much rather be earning the money I need for my bills by writing fiction - even if it for other people - because it's fiction that made me fall in love with writing in the first place. So, you can assume that anything ghostwritten is poor quality but you would be wrong. I even included (in my ghostwriting thread on this page) a rough draft of a chapter from a book I'm writing for Harlequin Intrigue, and as you will see, the writing is pretty damn good.

So, while I can appreciate that some ghostwriting is garbage; mine is not. I've been hired by several ghostwriting agencies with high standards. I left because they wanted a 50,000 word novel in two weeks and I still had a few regular clients that sent me good-paying articles. I couldn't keep up. But the books I wrote for those agencies are on Amazon, with great reviews, and with bestseller ranks to show that they are still selling.

I'm glad to hear that your ghostwritten work is of such high quality, Gabriel. But that simply begs the question... if your work is that good, why can't it stand on its own?

Say I go to the bookstore (the pretend one, since most the real ones have closed down) and spy, right there on the center table, a stack of hardbacks, a new title by Cormac McCarthy. My heart gives a leap, because Cormac is one of my favorite authors. I didn't even know he had a new book coming out! I grab my copy and can hardly bear to wait in line at the checkout.

Hours later, halfway through the book, I realize that the sense of wonder that I usually feel when reading McCarthy simply isn't there. Something is amiss, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I finish the book without ever really understanding why it felt different. It's a few weeks later when, on an obscure writers website, I first hear the rumor... that Cormac McCarthy didn't really pen those words. That they were ghostwritten.

Call me old school. I know honesty and forthrightness are "malleable" qualities these days. But seems to me that when an author puts his/her name on a title... it's actually _their_ title. We can rationalize six ways to Sunday why it's okay to fudge on stuff.

But words matter. And honest words matter most of all.

 

[Mylius Fox]

I'm glad to hear that your ghostwritten work is of such high quality, Gabriel. But that simply begs the question... if your work is that good, why can't it stand on its own?

In general, writing and marketing are two different skill sets. In his case, it sounds like he's already in a routine of working for hire, and it would take an amount of risk and uncertainty to disconnect from that to the point where he would have time to learn marketing and build a brand for himself.

 

[Gabriel_Legend]

I'm glad to hear that your ghostwritten work is of such high quality, Gabriel. But that simply begs the question... if your work is that good, why can't it stand on its own?

Say I go to the bookstore (the pretend one, since most the real ones have closed down) and spy, right there on the center table, a stack of hardbacks, a new title by Cormac McCarthy. My heart gives a leap, because Cormac is one of my favorite authors. I didn't even know he had a new book coming out! I grab my copy and can hardly bear to wait in line at the checkout.

Hours later, halfway through the book, I realize that the sense of wonder that I usually feel when reading McCarthy simply isn't there. Something is amiss, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I finish the book without ever really understanding why it felt different. It's a few weeks later when, on an obscure writers website, I first hear the rumor... that Cormac McCarthy didn't really pen those words. That they were ghostwritten.

Call me old school. I know honesty and forthrightness are "malleable" qualities these days. But seems to me that when an author puts his/her name on a title... it's actually _their_ title. We can rationalize six ways to Sunday why it's okay to fudge on stuff.

But words matter. And honest words matter most of all.

Well, you can stand on your high moral ground about "integrity" and "author voice" all you want. In the meantime, I have rent coming up. So, I have a choice. I can either write articles to pay my bills or I can write fiction for others to pay my bills. I don't understand what you find so offensive about me wanting to write about magic and characters and drama instead of ink cartridges.

 

[Mylius Fox]

Personally, I found the premise of the OP to be nothing but an exercise in virtue signalling...

 

[Lady Runa]

Personally, I have no problem with ghostwriting as such because it can be very good; what I don't understand is the "authors" who use their services. (I'm talking about fiction, not memoirs and such). This is the kind of parasitic behavior I can't tolerate. If a book is good, I won't put it down simply because it was ghostwritten, but I definitely won't buy anything else by that "author".

Then again, it's probably a symbiotic relationship that works both ways...

 

[Gabriel_Legend]

In general, writing and marketing are two different skill sets. In his case, it sounds like he's already in a routine of working for hire, and it would take an amount of risk and uncertainty to disconnect from that to the point where he would have time to learn marketing and build a brand for himself.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Well, you can stand on your high moral ground about "integrity" and "author voice" all you want. In the meantime, I have rent coming up. So, I have a choice. I can either write articles to pay my bills or I can write fiction for others to pay my bills. I don't understand what you find so offensive about me wanting to write about magic and characters and drama instead of ink cartridges.

Not offended at all, Gabe. And I'm glad to hear that you're able to make a living penning words - something that very few can lay claim to.

I wish you the very best.

 

[Douglas Milewski]

Ghostwriting is about money now, not later. If you ghostwrite, somebody else takes on the risk of making the profit while the you get quick cash. Compare that to publishing your own work: pay for editing, pay for cover, pay for advertising, and wait 90 days to get any profit. The business model is entirely different. Plus you need to learn to market. Plus there's no guarantee that the book will sell.

A publisher of ghostwriters, meanwhile, can buy up books, focusing on marketing, while the writers can focus on writing. That's a good division of labor, maximizing the chance that the book will be great and that the marketing will be great.

 

[Arches]

I understand that ghostwritten books are part of some people's publishing model, but it was never something that was openly advertised or discussed much here. I seem to recall it being attacked and frowned on when it did come up. But now we're getting multiple posts with advertisements for books to sell? And a senior member I wouldn't have expected to do so responded positively? When did that shift happen? When did Kboards become a place to advertise ghostwritten books for sale? Gives a little more credence to JA Huss's rant about Kboards a few weeks ago that at the time seemed a little extreme to me.

I have to admit the same questions Cassie raised have been running through my mind. For a long time, one of the popular get-rich-quick schemes promoted on the internet and YouTube has been writers of mostly nonfiction who don't really write but compile information and try and sell "their" book. With the advent of self-pub, that trend seemed to accelerate.
Now, the same mindset seems to be becoming more popular for fiction. Maybe it always has been there, but I never noticed until recently when ghostwriting became a popular topic on Kboards. Count me among those who discourage the trend.
I realize some people are trying to make a living as writers, whereas it's a hobby for me. I'm very happy that I don't have to rely on such a hit-or-miss way of making a living. But for those who do find a way to sell ghostwritten fiction as their own, I can't imagine the process is sustainable for long. I don't like marketing either, but its much easier than writing the actual book.

 

[ShayneRutherford]

What I can't fathom is that if someone has a book that is viable for successful publishing by another person, why would they sell it outright rather than publish it? It seems a little like cooking a meal then trying to sell it to a restaurant.

They might not have the money to promote it properly. So they can put the book out there themselves with little money to put behind it, or they can sell it for for guaranteed cash now. Some people are risk averse. Or they just need a guaranteed amount of money now, rather than a potentially larger profit later.

 

[Lark Watson]

Replace "ghostwriting" with "self publishing" and ... hey! Look! It's 2011 all over again.

 

[Crystal_]

This is a indie publishing forum first. Just look at how quickly craft discussions derail.

There's nothing wrong with ghostwriting or with hiring ghostwriters. You can whine "those publishers aren't real authors," but a) they don't care and b) they aren't calling themselves "real authors." What makes someone a real author anyway?

 

[Guest]

I have zero problem with ghostwriters. I just think the author actually buying ghostwritten material and publishing it under their name ought to list themselves as editor not author; after all, it's incontrovertible, not a matter of opinion, that claiming authorship of something that one didn't actual author is dishonest. (And if the ghostwriter is anonymous or wishes to remain so then simply don't list an author but use your author as editor name prominently for branding.)