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ellenoc said:
I don't dislike the PW and I'm keeping it. I had enough Amazon reward points that I paid less for it and the case than for a Baby Kindle. However, there are a couple of things that keep me from being truly happy with it - the Airplane feature is a PITA to get to and if I'd known you couldn't go forward or back a chapter easily I wouldn't have bought it. My guess is I'd be happier with a Baby Kindle except, and it's a big except, I live way out in the country, have no wifi unless I drive 15 miles, and need 3G. So I'm keeping the PW and using it in preference to the K3 right now because of size and the light for reading in bed.
I think it's been discussed before but isnt the chapter thing a software issue? If so, with enough complaints they could send out a fix for it. I would like that too.
 

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Lursa (aka 9MMare) said:
I think it's been discussed before but isnt the chapter thing a software issue? If so, with enough complaints they could send out a fix for it. I would like that too.
Yeah, it's a software thing. If they bring it back, hopefully its something you can toggle on and off. I don't like swiping up/down to jump chapters as I rarely need to jump chapters and it's too easily to do accidentally. And it's nice being able to swipe up/down to get a speck of dust of the screen without jumping chapters/pages too.

But some people do jump chapters a lot, so they should add an easier option for doing so for those who need it.
 

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I kind of want to get the $69 Kindle to "upgrade" from my K3 keyboard, but I think I'd miss the keyboard...  I do use it from time to time, and moving around with a directional pad seems like it would be a complete pain.

Are there any comparisons between the K3 keyboard and $69 Kindle screen?
 

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berfles said:
Are there any comparisons between the K3 keyboard and $69 Kindle screen?
The new $69 kindle has much better contrast.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
So, starting my experiences with the new $69 Kindle vs. Kindle PW and other models. For brevity, I will name the new black "$69" dollar non-touch Kindle as the "Kindle 5". I will refer to the previous generation, grey "$79" Kindle as the "Kindle 4".

The box:

As I said before, Kindle 5 comes in black, angled and rip-sealed a box very similar to Kindle PW - so it has the dark look, instead of the brown boxes of past generations. On the side reads Kindle on shiny black, instead of Kindle Paperwhite. Inside the USB cord (white) and a couple of pieces of paper, just like on the PW.

The looks:

At first glance the Kindle 5 is just like the Kindle 4, only black, with a white Kindle logo on top (where as Kindle 4 is two-tone grey with a grey logo). The buttons are the same: power on the bottom, two page change buttons on each side and four buttons + the five-way controller on top.

From the top Kindle 5 looks a little shinier, where as the Kindle 4 is bit more matte. Things are reversed on the back, which is more matte on the Kindle 5. The black back of Kindle 5 feels a little more rubbery than the grey-painted back of Kindle 4, there may be either a change of material or coloring process on the back.

Kindle 5 colors are pretty much like those on the Kindle Paperwhite, although PW has a rubbery edge, where as Kindle 5 edge is plastic. Of the three, the grey Kindle 4 seems least prone to fingerprints, Kindle PW most prone - and Kindle 5 in between. It is possible that the bezel on Kindle 5 is the same material as Kindle PW, but Kindle 5 did feel a little less prone to fingerprinting than PW.

Overall, the differences between Kindle 4, 5 and even PW are very subtle. PW is a little larger and certainly heavier, but overall all three devices look very similar next to each other. I do prefer the dark, singularly black look of the Kindle 5 and Kindle PW over the grey fourth generation, the two-tone grey is a little busy on the previous generation. The fifth generation black may look a little more plasticy than the fourth generation grey due to being a little shinier, but it also looks more durable and in the end, probably helps the screen pop out better too.

Amazon lighted leather cover:

Kindle 5 obviously fits the (disappointing) black Kindle 4 lighted leather case from Amazon. The holder part of the case is black or dark grey, much darker than the grey Kindle 4, but lighter than the Kindle 5. So the lighted leather case fits both Kindle 4 and Kindle 5 equally well or bad, however you want to look at it, neither blend in with the case colors. Not that it really would bother anyone. If you like the Amazon lighted cover for Kindle 4, it will work equally well with the Kindle 5 too. (I don't like the case on either one and am looking forward to receiving an alternative I have ordered. More on that when it gets here.)

Safe to say, the black Amazon leather case for Kindle PW is miles above and beyond the Kindle 4 leather case. The official PW case is very high quality and the magnetic closing mechanism (which turns Kindle PW on and off as needed) is obviously a great bonus over the Kindle 4/5 case, which has no such feature and is inferior in quality too. So, if you can live with the PW and without a case light, the Kindle PW leather cover from Amazon is certainly wondeful.

The software:

The new Kindle 5 runs software version 4.1.0, exactly the same as has been updated to my grey Kindle 4 - so functionally expect these devices to be identical. Of course this version is a far cry from the Kindle PW software, missing cover view, missing changeable fonts and missing X-Ray. It does have parental controls and panel view for comics, though, but it is a much simpler, more traditional Kindle experience. If you want the latest goodies, you better keep your eyes on the touch-enabled Kindles.

Kindle 4/5 does have some things Kindle PW doesn't, though, such as easy chapter skip, reading progress bar on the bottom and four-way screen rotation, since Amazon has decided to simplify certain software features in the PW.

The screen:

This was, of course, the (at least temporary) deal-breaker on the Kindle PW for me. I like the pure e-ink experience without integrated lights - and the screen-likeness - adding those introduced to e-ink. Obviously Kindle 5 is pure e-ink, no capacitive touch layer or frontlight light guide layer like on the Kindle PW. Just that magical e-ink right there, on top of the screen.

When the frontlight is set to minimum on the PW in a well-lit room, it doesn't really look all that different compared to the Kindle 4 and 5, so those additional layers on top aren't that much of distraction when the frontlight is not visible. The topmost layer on all three Kindles shines under a light in a very similar way, so in a lighted room without the Kindle PW frontlight glaring, they look quite the same.

Differences in the screens start to appear when looking closer. Compared to Kindle 4/5, the Kindle PW screen, even with the frontlight to minimum, looks more washed out. The fonts are not nearly as black on the PW. Although font-to-font differences are part of the reason, I doubt they are the whole reason. It seems that the higher resolution and those two additional layers on top of the PW screen are resulting in a lower contrast on the PW compared to the higher-contrast Kindle 4 and 5.

Comparing the new Kindle 5 to Kindle 4, I can confirm the differences many have reported here. While the technical specs are roughly the same, it is clear that there is more than just a bezel-color change going on. The black bezel on Kindle 5 does increase the contrast somewhat, but the text on Kindle 5 is definitely darker than on Kindle 4 and darkest of the bunch here. (My old Kindle 2 looks really washed out next to the Kindle 5.)

I don't know how much it is because of a new screen or font adjustments on the Kindle 5 - I'm guessing it is a new screen, because the software on my  Kindle 4 and 5 is the same.

The verdict:

I am yet to get a satisfactory reading lamp for either the Kindle 5 or Kindle PW (if I'm ever going to get such a thing), so comparisons in the dark will have to wait. I will also do comparisons with Kindle 3 Keyboard and more PW testing later on, as has been suggested above. But for now, in a lighted room, which one of these feels the best when reading?

Holding in front of me, without covers, all three: Kindle PW, Kindle 5 and Kindle 4... it is clear that two of these look better and one is the best. Unfortunately for the PW, the ones that look better are Kindle 4 and 5. Even though the PW can be made whiter by turning the light up, it still doesn't really feel white, as much as glowing - and the e-ink magic, to me, is lost. Kindle 4/5 may be "pocket book drab" in the color of their page, but the great contrast, black text, flawless screen (no light unevenness to think about, like on the PW) just put the baby Kindles miles above the PW. They are just that much better.

The PW does have an edge when displaying pictures due to the added resolution, but when displaying text it seems to loose that - the text on Kindle 4/5 looks sharper, crisper, where as the added resolution on the PW seems to just make the text feel more shallow somehow.

As for the best of the bunch, clearly Kindle 5 is superior to all of the three. The difference compared to Kindle 4 is distinct enough. Whether it is the bezel color or the screen or whatever, definitely the blackest text can be had on the new Kindle 5.

Wow. It's just wonderful. I better go read now! I'll look into lighted cases, PW under lighting, Kindle 3 Keyboard comparisons and so forth later, when I get the goods and the times.
 

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FearIndex - my husband and I both have K3s and I thought of getting him a Paperwhite but not so sure between the screen issues and lack of page turn buttons.  Your review of the K4/5 sounds like this might be a better upgrade to test out but I have some questions.  It is harder to start up with a WiFi only compared to one with 3G?  Often I buy books on line and have them sent to my kindle, but if you want to purchase through the Kindle, how do you navigate on the K4/5 without a keyboard or touchscreen?  Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
FearIndex said:
So, starting my experiences with the new $69 Kindle vs. Kindle PW and other models. For brevity, I will name the new black "$69" dollar non-touch Kindle as the "Kindle 5". I will refer to the previous generation, grey "$79" Kindle as the "Kindle 4".

...

Differences in the screens start to appear when looking closer. Compared to Kindle 4/5, the Kindle PW screen, even with the frontlight to minimum, looks more washed out. The fonts are not nearly as black on the PW. Although font-to-font differences are part of the reason, I doubt they are the whole reason. It seems that the higher resolution and those two additional layers on top of the PW screen are resulting in a lower contrast on the PW compared to the higher-contrast Kindle 4 and 5.
Here is a picture of my Kindle Paperwhite (left) and the new $69 Kindle "5" (right), showing a page out of The Hobbit:



Font settings are default in both books and they were loaded from the cloud at the same time, so they are the same edition.

The frontlight is at its minimum on the PW and the room is lit by natural light falling slightly on both devices.

Font in Paperwhite: Caecilia, size 4. Font in Kindle: Regular, size 3.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
maries said:
FearIndex - my husband and I both have K3s and I thought of getting him a Paperwhite but not so sure between the screen issues and lack of page turn buttons. Your review of the K4/5 sounds like this might be a better upgrade to test out but I have some questions. It is harder to start up with a WiFi only compared to one with 3G? Often I buy books on line and have them sent to my kindle, but if you want to purchase through the Kindle, how do you navigate on the K4/5 without a keyboard or touchscreen? Thanks.
Setting up the Wi-Fi, assuming you have Wi-Fi set up at your home is just a matter of selecting the network on startup and entering the password. Couldn't be simpler. Of course entering text on the five-way controller is slower than a real keyboard, but for such short phrases such as passwords and search words I'd say it works very well. The lack of keyboard was never a problem for me on the Kindle 4 and Kindle 5 seems the same.

Purchasing books on the Kindle 5 (based on my experiences on the nearly identical Kindle 4) is very simple. Click to the store via a menu, enter a partial (or full if you wish) search word and the scroll the list that appears with the arrow keys. Not really a problem of any sort. There is an on-screen keyboard you navigate with the five-way controller, selecting one letter at a time. It works well for what it is.

If you want to write notes or use the experimental web browser for, say, writing on KindleBoards.com then I'd recommend against the Kindle 5. You can do that too, but obviously writing is slow for such purposes. But if your need is simply the occasional search word to the Kindle Store (or that Wi-Fi password), I'd say from personal experience you are good to go with the Kindle 5. Personally I mostly need just the page change buttons.

I had my issues with Kindle 4, with the Amazon lighted cover I didn't like and the partial screen refreshes that were the only option in the original software - the latter (and more) has been changed in software updates since and Kindle 5 is much more of a mature device to get now, than Kindle 4 was - or Kindle PW is either. Kindle 5 seems sort of fool-proof. It just works, it is the pinnacle of the traditional Kindle. (I'd recommend some other cover, though, because the Amazon Kindle 4/5 cover light shines in your eye too easily and the build quality of that cover just isn't worth the asking-price.)

As for 3G, obviously a Wi-Fi only version won't work in places were 3G is but Wi-Fi isn't available, so that depends on your needs. Personally I didn't find the lack of 3G a major issue on my Kindle 3 or 4 (I have it on 2 and PW, but for no reason really, I hardly ever use the 3G).
 

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Discussion Starter #29
One more thing: Kindle 4, 5 and Kindle PW do not have support for audiobooks, text-to-speech or audio of any kind. If that is important, then they are of course a no go.

But for pure reading, $69 Kindle 5 does seem the most promising for me at the moment...
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Continuing with my comparisons of the new $69 Kindle "5" with other Kindles. My Kindle 4 and Kindle PW comparison is a few messages up here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129956.msg1921055.html#msg1921055

This time I have the Kindle 3 aka Kindle Keyboard black (or graphite) version to compare to, my old Kindle that I have given to a family member and missed a bit during the past year of lackluster Kindle 4 experience (mostly due to the Amazon lighted case).

The look:

Kindle 3, this dark version (it was also available in white back in the day), is still a lot lighter than the black Kindle 5 and Kindle Paperwhite are. Kindle 3 is a little easier on they eyes as a color, but also doesn't give as much contrast next to the screen as the pitch black Kindle 5 does. Also the Amazon Kindle logo on Kindle 3 is more grey than the whiter Kindle logo on the new Kindle 5. So, the new model is a bit more "striking" in appearance, where as Kindle 3 comes across a little softer with its softer hues and rounder corners. Both look good though, Kindle 3 is still a remarkably good looking piece of kit.

Amazon lighted leather cover:

In my view Kindle 3 has the far superior Amazon lighted leather cover compared to Kindle 4 and Kindle 5. The leather on the front and back is much better, the case is more substantial (Kindle 4/5 case is a bit of a joke here), it has a closing rubber band (Kindle 4/5 case doesn't)... and the light on the Kindle 3 does not shine in your eye when reading in bed (Kindle 4/5 lighted case shines disturbingly in your eye). So, if you had the Amazon lighted leather cover for Kindle 3, don't expect the new case to be as good. It isn't. The only thing better about the new Kindle 4/5 case is that the Kindle sits tight inside it, not moving in those metal clips like the Kindle 3 does in its case.

Kindle PW non-lighted Amazon leather case is high quality, though, so if you opt for the PW then that is a fine case.

The software:

Kindle 3 also received the "Kindle 3.4" software update recently (roughly equivalent to the new Kindle 4.1 on Kindle 4/5), so software-wise the Kindle 5 and Kindle 3 are pretty much equal when updated. Of course Kindle 3 has some features Kindle 5 does not, namely audiobooks, text-to-speech and the experimental MP3 player, because the new Kindle 5 lacks any kind of audio hardware (Kindle 3 has both a speaker and a headset connector).

Kindle 3 does not have, even after the software updates, the partial screen refersh option Kindle 4 introduced and Kindle PW and Kindle 5 have too. Later Kindles do the "blink" between pages only after each six pages or so, unless you turn every page refresh on in the settings. Some may like this and if they do, Kindle 5 certainly offers this bonus over Kindle 3.

The screen:

Kindle 3.4 software update included new, darker fonts, so the difference of contrast between Kindle 3 and Kindle 5 is not quite as much as it was when comparing the Kindle 3.1 software to Kindle 5. Still, Kindle 3 has nothing on Kindle 5 when it comes to the screen. Kindle 5 clearly has superior black text. Otherwise the color of the Kindle 5 background looks similar to Kindle 3, so both still retain that greyness in the background so inherent to e-ink.

Disturbingly, Kindle 3 contrast seems better than that of Kindle PW. Certainly not glowing praise (no pun intended) for PW...
 

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Discussion Starter #32
xtine911 said:
I've read of a lot of people with otherwise "defective" screens still enjoying using their PWs during the day. I wonder if by using an external booklight at night, but still turning up the built-in PW lights, a nice white screen could be achieved, sans the pink/green blobs?
OK, so since the other solution (aside $69 Kindle 5) I have been researching is "fixing" the Paperwhite screen, using a lighted case or a clip-on light... I tested this tonight as well.

Indeed, you can overpower the frontlight light guide with an external light and the result will be more even than without. One of the main light uniformity issues I have with the PW is that the bottom of the page, when reading in the dark, is much whiter than the top of the page. When you have a clip-on or case light lighting up the top of the page, the result is much more even, even if the frontlight is in use. It probably won't hide the LED shadows on the bottom of the page, but it will help hide other issues with the light guide uniformity. Also, because now the bezel is lighted as well by the external light, it is less taxing and less screen-like to look at the device in darkness, because the whole face of the device lights up, not just the display.

So, I'd chalk this up as a "potential" solution for some people. I have had moments when tuning a little PW frontlight up in good ambient lighting really adds a nice effect, or more whiteness plus more light on the screen to actually help reading, without being disturbing e-ink-wise. So, in darkness if one adds an external light (either in a case or some other clip-on light or a table light) with sufficient lighting power, it should help in a similar manner.

That said, I think the best potential for me, with the PW, would be to be able to turn off the frontlight completely and use only a lighted case. Although, now, considering how much better I see the $69 Kindle 5 being contrast-wise, I have a hard time seeing myself returning to the PW.
 

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I plan to stop at Best Buy sometime to see the Paperwhite but thinking of just sticking with the KK for now.  I like the physical page turn buttons for reading on the KK.  My hope is that the next Paperwhite will have these plus they will have worked out some of display issues.  I get excted about new technology but don't want to jump for something new that isn't quite what I want or still has bugs to work out.  Maybe the mini-ipad announcement next week will distract me from even thinking about the Paperwhite.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
One more report for today. I plopped the $69 Kindle 5 inside the Kindle 4 Amazon lighter leather case, to tide me over until a hopefully better case arrives. It actually sits in it a little better than Kindle 4, the page buttons are not hindered by the case as they are on Kindle 4 a little, and the black frame feels more at home inside the quite black case (although the case bezel is not quite as dark as Kindle 5). Anyway, the Kindle 4 official case works great with the Kindle 5, if you like that case that is. I will read on this until the new third-party case arrives...

So, it is dark here and I turned on the Kindle Paperwhite and the Kindle 5 (with the case light) on, side by side. There was one distant light on in the room, so it wasn't pitch dark, but very dark in the corner I was in. I pushed the PW up to 24/24 brightness to see how these two compared.

While the PW does send a more similar amount of light over the full page, there really is no contest in my eyes. The text on the Kindle 5 is super-black and the case light does make the background seem whiter too. While the PW page is fairly white (although somewhat uneven) thanks to the frontlight, the text is simply washed out in comparison. I dropped the PW frontlight to half (12/24) and the washing out of the text became a little less, but now the page was also much darker than the Kindle 5 under the case light. And the blacks still looked grey or even blue on the PW.

Frankly, in my opinion the Kindle 5 is so superior under even this crappy Amazon case light that there is no contest in my eyes. I will see if I can capture the effect on camera, it does seem a little hard to photograph though. Somehow it is like the case light just makes Kindle 5 black seem blacker, whereas on the PW the frontlight just makes its black seem a little glowing and vague - not a good thing when the blacks on the PW are more grey of the two even without the frontlight glowing.

By the way, there is some additional discussion the $69 Kindle 5 here, for those who are interested in it and missed these: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129685.0.html
 

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i like e ink and like the k5 a lot & to be honest since I have yet to find a device I don't want  :) I'll probably reorder the PW as I did like it for its over all effect, it however did not hold up at night...I have been warned by my wife not to get the ipad mini , I guess I better listen, I like taking naps on the sofa but don't want to sleep there at night with the cat...
 

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Discussion Starter #36
FearIndex said:
So, it is dark here and I turned on the Kindle Paperwhite and the Kindle 5 (with the case light) on, side by side. There was one distant light on in the room, so it wasn't pitch dark, but very dark in the corner I was in. I pushed the PW up to 24/24 brightness to see how these two compared.

While the PW does send a more similar amount of light over the full page, there really is no contest in my eyes. The text on the Kindle 5 is super-black and the case light does make the background seem whiter too. While the PW page is fairly white (although somewhat uneven) thanks to the frontlight, the text is simply washed out in comparison. I dropped the PW frontlight to half (12/24) and the washing out of the text became a little less, but now the page was also much darker than the Kindle 5 under the case light. And the blacks still looked grey or even blue on the PW.

Frankly, in my opinion the Kindle 5 is so superior under even this crappy Amazon case light that there is no contest in my eyes. I will see if I can capture the effect on camera, it does seem a little hard to photograph though. Somehow it is like the case light just makes Kindle 5 black seem blacker, whereas on the PW the frontlight just makes its black seem a little glowing and vague - not a good thing when the blacks on the PW are more grey of the two even without the frontlight glowing.
This is how it looks, managed to get it on "film". Paperwhite left, $69 Kindle 5 right in the Amazon lighted cover (for Kindle 4/5). (PW propped up to same height as Kindle 5 in cover for the photo.)



Much blacker text on the $69 Kindle 5.
 

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I returned my PW today when I finally accepted the fact that I really preferred my K4. Lighting is not an issue in my life. DTB's worked in planes with an overhead beam, K4's do also. In my bedroom I prefer a bedside lamp. The lack of a dedicated Home screen annoyed me and although I did like the time estimates they were not enough to make up for the lack of buttons. Reading on my Fire HD is not a problem although the weight can be a turnoff. I have a cover with an easel back so it's my choice while eating.
I'm waiting for Amazon's next best thing. The November Fire I guess.
 

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Leslie said:
The text on your PW is much lighter than mine.
Same here. May just be the picture though I guess.

I will say the text on mine is a tad lighter than on my K3 when I compared them side by side. So I do think the touch and/or light layers make a tad of difference. But it wasn't enough to bother me given how much better I like the lit screen compared to having to use external light and deal with ambient shadows etc.
 

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FearIndex said:
Indeed, you can overpower the frontlight light guide with an external light and the result will be more even than without. One of the main light uniformity issues I have with the PW is that the bottom of the page, when reading in the dark, is much whiter than the top of the page. When you have a clip-on or case light lighting up the top of the page, the result is much more even, even if the frontlight is in use. It probably won't hide the LED shadows on the bottom of the page, but it will help hide other issues with the light guide uniformity. Also, because now the bezel is lighted as well by the external light, it is less taxing and less screen-like to look at the device in darkness, because the whole face of the device lights up, not just the display.
Thank you for the update, it's good to know that at least there's a "workaround" to fix the lighting issues, even if having to use an external light seems counterintuitive to what the PW is supposed to be.
 
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