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Discussion Starter #121
SusanCassidy said:
The K5 is, and always has been, the Kindle Touch, not the 69 Basic version.
I disagree. Not all call it that.

I agree that the logic of using the firmware major number exists on some forums - and Kindle Touch was called 5 in some places, because of its firmware. But that logic fell flat on its face when PW also became 5. Is it also Kindle 5?

There is pertinent logic behind calling $69 Kindle the Kindle 5. It is the fifth product to bear the name "Kindle", without any other monikers. Kindle was first, then Kindle 2, then Kindle 3 (only later renamed Kindle Keyboard), then just Kindle (fourth generation) and then a new Kindle with a new color and a new pricepoint, aka Kindle 5. Wikipedia calls the $69 Kindle as Kindle 5, as do many on KB.

I can see that there is some logic to calling Kindle 5 just a variant of Kindle 4, and thus Kindle 4B, but I also think calling it the Kindle 5 is way more logical than labeling Kindle Touch as Kindle 5, which seems very illogical because it isn't called "Kindle" at all, but "Kindle Touch". It isn't fifth Kindle Touch either, it is the first Kindle Touch. And even if we were to think Kindle Touch should be Kindle 5 because it is the fifth Kindle model, it should be called Kindle 6 because of Kindle DX.

And... PW isn't called Kindle 5, why would it be, it is called Kindle Paperwhite and logically PW2 is Paperwhite 2, not suddenly something else due to firmware numbering.

Really, I have been trying to make the "Kindle Touch is Kindle 5" logic work in my mind, but I just can't see how we can justify calling it that anymore. It just doesn't work. We could decide to call the $69 Kindle black as Kindle 4B instead of Kindle 5, I can see some logic in that, but I think calling it Kindle 5 makes sense as it was announced as part of the fifth-generation and the grey color was faded out.

Let's face it: Amazon changed the game and numbering Kindles by their firmware versions no longer works. It makes more sense to number them by their name and how many generations there are of that name. Hence Kindle Touch is Kindle Touch, if there ever is another Kindle Touch, the next one would be Kindle Touch 2. PW is PW or now PW1, PW2 is PW2, the next one is PW3 etc. It just makes so much more sense than looking at the firmware numbers.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

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Discussion Starter #122
Good points Ann, about the branching.

Ann in Arlington said:
Then a single branch off the K2 part of the trunk to the DX. Which later was upgraded to the DXG -- little better screen etc.
DXG being called that instead of DX2 would support calling the $69 Kindle black as Kindle 4B instead of Kindle 5, the upgrade was similar in nature.

I have nothing against Kindle 4B as a name, I think it makes sense. I think calling Kindle 4B as Kindle 5 also makes sense to me, the fifth-generation product named "Kindle". I could also live with calling DXG the DX2, but I agree DXG is so widely used and makes sense, there is no point in trying to change that.

But I don't see any current logic in calling Kindle Touch the Kindle 5. I think if some call it that, a change - due to later events if nothing else - would seem warranted.
 

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FearIndex said:
Good points Ann, about the branching.

DXG being called that instead of DX2 would support calling the $69 Kindle black as Kindle 4B instead of Kindle 5, the upgrade was similar in nature.

I have nothing against Kindle 4B as a name, I think it makes sense. I think calling Kindle 4B as Kindle 5 also makes sense to me, the fifth-generation product named "Kindle". I could also live with calling DXG the DX2, but I agree DXG is so widely used and makes sense, there is no point in trying to change that.

But I don't see any current logic in calling Kindle Touch the Kindle 5. I think if some call it that, a change - due to later events if nothing else - would seem warranted.
Note that Amazon never called any of them K1 or K2 or anything. When there was one Kindle it was kindle. When the next model came out, it was the Kindle. If they every referred to the earlier one, they called it the 'previous generation'. And as soon as they released more than one distinctly different new one in the same year, the numbering stopped working. :)

When they released the Touch and the basic, the basic is the Kindle, and the Touch is the Kindle Touch. At that time they had not yet phased out the K3 so they referred to it as the Kindle Keyboard. And they've always called the PaperWhite the PaperWhite. WE Here specify PW1 or PW2 to distinguish which model year it's from. Though they do have the indicator on the strip across the top of "New" on the WiFi only model. Presumably when the "New" 3G model is available they'll note it there as well, but currently the 3G model for sale is last year's model.

As to the DX, again, amazon only ever called it the DX. They did specify when they released one that would work internationally. When they did the slight upgrade, they changed the case cover to dark gray or 'graphite' and people here decided to use DXG to distinguish it from the previous year's models.
 

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Discussion Starter #125
Ann in Arlington said:
Note that Amazon never called any of them K1 or K2 or anything. When there was one Kindle it was kindle. When the next model came out, it was the Kindle. If they every referred to the earlier one, they called it the 'previous generation'. And as soon as they released more than one distinctly different new one in the same year, the numbering stopped working. :)
Good point. I actually remembered they called Kindle 2 by a number, but now that I check you are right they didn't. iPad confusing my mind, maybe! My receipt for it says "Kindle Wireless Reading Device (6" Display, Global Wireless, Latest Generation)". It wasn't even that many years ago, but so the memory plays tricks. :)

I didn't think they called the next one Kindle 3 though, as I do remember the ambiguity there. It was "Kindle Wireless Reading Device, Wi-Fi, 6" Display, Graphite - Latest Generation". I tried to point out that the Kindle Keyboard moniker came later - thus it was logical for us to call it Kindle 3, because it was the third product named Kindle without other monikers.

I think the numbering works best when you simply associate it with the name of the product and the generation. So, products named Kindle 1-5, products named Kindle Paperwhite 1-2, products named Kindle Touch 1-1 so far... :) I do agree sometimes it might be useful to skip advancing the number and just call the product by a new color, like DXG or maybe 4B instead of 5.

The big "problem", of course, is what to call it if Amazon ever launched a completely new basic Kindle? To me, Kindle 6 would make sense, but what about all those people who feel the $69 Kindle is Kindle 4... Then again, if they feel Kindle 5 is Kindle Touch, Kindle 6 should work for them too. :)
 

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I think we should just blame Amazon for the confusion!

They always called each new 6" model just 'Kindle' as there was only one available at a time. When that changed they realise they'd have to distinguish different models and realised it was too late for numbering so they picked a feature of the design to use. The basic Kindle was just the Kindle, the one we all called K3 became the Kindle Keyboard and the (then) new touch screen model the Kindle Touch. Now we have two generations of Kindle Paperwhite.

I think that in future, all new models except the most basic one at the time, that have a significant new feature, will be known by a name reflecting that feature, like Kindle Paperwhite, but whereas we distinguish between the generations by using numbers, Amazon will just use the name to refer to the current model and refer to the older generations of the same model as 'previous' generation.

Something to remember is that the vast majority of Kindle owners probably don't belong to any boards like this or have a lot of contact with other Kindle users outside their own circle and have no idea what people call the different models. They just have their 'Kindle' and that's it - they're too busy reading to care! :eek:



 

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Well, at least it's not as bad as it is with cars where each one seems to have an obligatory 2 letters and a number designation (BX3, ZR5, OH3, etc.) which have NOTHING to do with the release number of the auto!  :eek:
 

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This refers to e-Ink Kindles, not the Fire.

Digging deep, I have discovered that Amazon actually refers to Kindles by generation, based on the Firmware they are running. They also refer to them by name (ie, Keyboard, Touch).

Kindle (1st generation), Firmware 1.2
Kindle (2nd generation) and DX, Firmware 2.5.8
Kindle Keyboard (3rd generation), Firmware 3.4
Kindle (4th generation), or "the baby Kindle", Firmware 4.1.1

All the Kindles with the Touch screen are in the 5th Generation (the dawning of the Age of Aquarius?)

Kindle Touch (5th generation), Firmware 5.3.7
Kindle Paperwhite, 1st generation (5th generation), <-- I don't have my 1st gen PW with me to check the Firmware version, and I don't see it listed on the Amazon site (doing a quick scan)
Kindle Paperwhite, 2nd generation (5th generation), Firmware 5.4.0

That's clear as mud...LOL.

L

 

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I just checked and my Kindle Paperwhite 1st generation (5th generation) has Firmware 5.3.8

L
 

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Well, there is a DX and the DXG. The DX was introduced when the Kindle 2 International came out. It had a white bezel.

The DXG has a black bezel and the Pearl e-ink screen, it was released about a month before the K3 was introduced.

The only difference between the two is the screen but it is a big difference.
 

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Here is my experience with the PW1.

After reading the comments on this thread, I canceled my PW2 order, as it seems like a small incremental upgrade from my PW1.  I like the PW1, but not in love with it.  At times it seems hard on the eyes.  It's either too bright and washed out or dim and grey. My other Kindle is the K3 Keyboard with an Amazon lighted cover with the notorious two hook connecting hinge. This is an improvement over the K2, but I never did like the Amazon cover or other lighting solutions available.

I did take note of the posts by FearIndex on this thread about the $69 K5 having the best contrast and that matching the Amazon lighted cover is a good pair. So, I ordered both and took them for a test drive.  So far this is the best Kindle combination I have owned.  The K5 e-ink screen is excellent and when using the light it is very pleasing to the eyes.  The black bezel helps bring out the contrast of the screen more than the K3 graphite version. It's good to have the physical page buttons back vs the touch screen on my PW1. Some how the K5 seems more responsive and has apparent faster page turns than the PW1.  It is a gem of a e-reader.

I'll give away the K3 Keyboard and keep the PW1 as a backup, with the K5 the primary reader.

 

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simonz said:
Here is my experience with the PW1.

After reading the comments on this thread, I canceled my PW2 order, as it seems like a small incremental upgrade from my PW1. I like the PW1, but not in love with it. At times it seems hard on the eyes. It's either too bright and washed out or dim and grey. My other Kindle is the K3 Keyboard with an Amazon lighted cover with the notorious two hook connecting hinge. This is an improvement over the K2, but I never did like the Amazon cover or other lighting solutions available.

I did take note of the posts by FearIndex on this thread about the $69 K5 having the best contrast and that matching the Amazon lighted cover is a good pair. So, I ordered both and took them for a test drive. So far this is the best Kindle combination I have owned. The K5 e-ink screen is excellent and when using the light it is very pleasing to the eyes. The black bezel helps bring out the contrast of the screen more than the K3 graphite version. It's good to have the physical page buttons back vs the touch screen on my PW1. Some how the K5 seems more responsive and has apparent faster page turns than the PW1. It is a gem of a e-reader.

I'll give away the K3 Keyboard and keep the PW1 as a backup, with the K5 the primary reader.
Did you try the Simple Light by Grant Technology for the K3? It was a very good solution, totally adjustable, and uses the battery of the Kindle. It attaches to the side and I had a lightweight flip style cover and could leave the light on it at all times. I dont know if they still make the light but I love mine. Of course, I do like the (even less than perfect) lighting of the PW1 better but it's a really nice accessory. Was cheap too.
 

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Discussion Starter #135
simonz said:
Here is my experience with the PW1.

After reading the comments on this thread, I canceled my PW2 order, as it seems like a small incremental upgrade from my PW1. I like the PW1, but not in love with it. At times it seems hard on the eyes. It's either too bright and washed out or dim and grey. My other Kindle is the K3 Keyboard with an Amazon lighted cover with the notorious two hook connecting hinge. This is an improvement over the K2, but I never did like the Amazon cover or other lighting solutions available.

I did take note of the posts by FearIndex on this thread about the $69 K5 having the best contrast and that matching the Amazon lighted cover is a good pair. So, I ordered both and took them for a test drive. So far this is the best Kindle combination I have owned. The K5 e-ink screen is excellent and when using the light it is very pleasing to the eyes. The black bezel helps bring out the contrast of the screen more than the K3 graphite version. It's good to have the physical page buttons back vs the touch screen on my PW1. Some how the K5 seems more responsive and has apparent faster page turns than the PW1. It is a gem of a e-reader.

I'll give away the K3 Keyboard and keep the PW1 as a backup, with the K5 the primary reader.
Thank you for your comments, simonz. Great to hear I could help.

While I personally thought the lighted cover in Kindle 3 was the best Amazon lighted cover so far, I do agree it is a big cumbersome in some ways. While the Kindle 3 cover had the best light in my opinion, the tight fit of the Kindle 4/5 cover is an improvement from a practical point of view. Personally I wish the Kindle 4/5 cover would match the great light of the Kindle 3 cover and the quality of its leather, but can't have everything. :)

I will probably keep a PW2, but the one I'm having is likely going back for replacement. I can't stand the crooked screen.

As for my main reading partner, the $69 Kindle 5 with the official Amazon lighted cover and my cardboard mod to cover light glare from shining into eyes is still my preferred solution. It is just excellent. I'd love to have some of the PW features there, but for pure reading pleasure it is the best I have found for myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
I thought I owed you guys one more report, so here goes...

Well, I decided to get a replacement for my PW2 - mostly due to its slanted screen and secondarily because of the pin-hole or two. Getting a replacement was a bit hard, because the Amazon support spent the better part of one day forwarding me from one attendant to another - I went through like 15 different people, each time getting to re-explain and most of the time asked for some info or another before being forwarded again - eventually forcing me to try another day. Re-trying next day it was sorted out on the second attendant and I got the replacement quickly.

Turns out, I got a good one. The new screen isn't quite as bright as the first PW2, it is somewhere in-between my PW1 and the first PW2 in brightness, but that's actually a good thing - the light is more even. There is none of the bottom right corner light-leakage and overall the "stage lighting" on the bottom edge of the new unit is the least pronounced of the three. I mean, like on all PW2s I believe, the stage lighting still shows there when you look very closely, but compared to the glare in PW1 it has now practically disappeared. The screen is yellowish like the first PW2, but it is a nice shade. PW1 with the light on looks very blue compared to the two PW2's.

The most important thing is, my second PW2 screen is straight and there are no pin-holes or specks I can see. I can't begin to describe how big of a difference this actually makes. There are no glaring defects with the screen, like there has been with my PW1 and PW2, which takes one major hurdle out of the way of enjoyment. I can now look at the menu without seeing crooked top bars and patchy, uneven corner graphics that really take away from the quality feel - let alone reading slanted text on my previous PWs. As far as what one can expect to get from a PW2, I believe, this unit is a keeper. So, unless something surprising surfaces over the next days, the first PW2 is going back and this one stays with me. Text blackness is okayish, like on all my PWs, clearly less black than my $69 baby Kindle, but it isn't bad. I think the text blackness on the new may be a sliver under the first PW2, but it is okay in both - not great, but okay.

That's the good news. The bad news? Well, the lighting of course isn't perfectly even - and when using the light high up, the text gets that milky look that happens on all PWs. Looking at a lit screen is still more taxing to the eyes in darkness than using a top down reading light that shines more evenly all over. The middle of the screen is still darker than the corners, but on the new PW2 unit this seems more even than before - the edges are more even and the darker area sort of expands more evenly in the middle making it look a lot more natural than the patchiness of either of my older units. For whatever reason, the remaining unevenness of the PW2 lighting seems to bother me much less on the new unit than before. Has it improved enough to cross a mental threshold? I don't know, but I do know it is good enough to keep anyway. The PW1 is actually quite terrible compared to the latest PW2 unit I got, no wonder I didn't get along with it. The first PW2 was still noticeably bad in my eyes (although better than the PW1), but the new PW2 invoked a better feeling.

I actually never expected to use the new PW2 that much, because the $69 baby Kindle is that good and I believe the PWs front-light technology has some inherent limitations (less "natural" e-ink feeling). The $69 baby Kindle, especially the late 2012 units I've seen, have such superior text blackness that the PW2 can't come anywhere close. I also think the case light in the baby Kindle is easier on the eyes in the dark than the PW2 lighting is. But, given my low expectations, I was positively surprised with the replacement PW2. When the screen is finally sort of good enough, it is easier to look past it and at the actually nice features the PW2 has and give it a serious go without cringing.

I don't know, maybe I'll actually get to read some on the darned thing... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #137
Second part of my replacement Kindle PW2 report:

So, something I never properly (outside of testing runs) did with the first PW2 because I was too annoyed by the flaws on its screen, I actually settled in to read - in darkness - with the new PW2. My best comparison being the PW1 last year, which I also used to do some actual reading on, before settling onto the much nicer basic $69 Kindle for my daily Kindle for the past year.

Anyway, the first thing any pure e-ink lover probably faces with reading a lighted e-ink screen in the dark is trying to come into grips with the tablet or LCD-like feeling. I didn't get into e-ink because it looked like a screen, but because it looked nothing like a screen. The paperlikeness is the magic that attracts me to e-ink and has allowed me to embrace digital books in a way no tablet of mine has ever been able. Those reading in the dark probably know what I mean.

Put the Paperwhite 2 light to the max and no matter any clever frontlight trickery involved, it looks just like an LCD and nothing like electronic paper. I must sing a little praise at this point, though, the consistency of the lighting has gotten to such a level that it didn't give me any worries even when reading in the dark. The light is stronger around the edges than the middle, but it doesn't seem splotchy or patchy anymore. To say it is even or perfect would be a lie, but I do feel it is relatively consistent and personally I got into grips with it very quickly. This is high praise coming from someone who did NOT get into grips with my PW1's screen experience, even though it isn't anywhere as bad as some I've seen online.

So, it became a question of adjusting the PW2 light and could I read comfortably at a level that didn't feel like reading on an LCD in the dark. In the end I read a good hour+ on level 7 I think. It was pleasant enough to the point I forgot about the reader and I do like the touch interface, I already liked it on the PW1 even though I expected to hate the lack of page changing buttons. The touch became especially nice when I had to look up some words in the dictionary, the explanation opening in a nice big window on the screen much appreciated too. I put the new PW2 in my old PW1 official case, and the magnetic cover on/off feature is great too. Also, I appreciated the clearly less weight in my PW2 Wi-Fi compared to PW1 3G.

It is far too early days to say whether or not the PW2 can compete with my trusty baby Kindle, because even at level 7, when reading in the dark some of the e-ink feeling is still lost. Good news is, the screen quality itself was fine and didn't bother me anymore, what bothers me if anything if the principal limitation of this technology concept - it looks like a screen, not like paper. Reading in lighted rooms PW2 works much better because you can actually use the light to control the whiteness of the screen while still looking like electronic paper, the darkness reading scenario continues to be the one area where frontlighted e-ink has a hard time competing with regular e-ink in an integrated lighted case.
 

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I don't like reading on my PW2 in a dark room either.  It's too much like a back-lit screen.  I tried it a couple of times and then could not fall asleep afterwards.  My eyes were bothering me.

I wondered about this when the PW1 came out.  In the ads you can see the light on the reader's face, just like it is with a backlit screen.

But I like my PW2 a lot for reading in a moderately- to well-lit room.
 

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I also don't like reading the paperwhite in a completely dark room. But it works great if I am in a hotel, for example, and the bedside light is not too bright. With the PW, I am able to read (easily and comfortably) whereas with old Kindles, I couldn't have. I was never a fan of portable book lights.

L
 

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It actually never occurred to me that the point of the light was to be able to read in a completely dark room. I always considered it as a supplemental source that added just enough to make it comfortable when you are in an area where the lighting is not ideal. Like Leslie, I've never really found clip on book lights suitable. :(

As to the ads. . . .of course you see light on the person's face: the screen reflects the light. If it didn't you wouldn't see it. ;) I think it's still probably better than shining directly into your face, which is the case with most tablet devices -- sort of like how looking at the full moon is fine but you don't want to stare into the sun. :) But it's probably something that some people will be more sensitive too than others.

That said, once or twice, I have used it very successfully when I was reading in bed and The Hubs wanted to go to sleep. Usually this isn't a problem because I'm in bed long before he is and am well asleep before he even comes up. But occasionally he comes up the same time or shortly after me. Anyway, for some reason he doesn't care if the radio is playing but claims he can't sleep if there's any light. :eek: (I totally don't get that. I can close/cover my eyes but there's no way I can put in a big enough ear plug to not hear the radio!)

So I put off the bedside lamp and put the light on the PW down low enough for me to be able to see without glare. Given that it was not pointing toward him it didn't bother him. Of course, I could have just stopped reading and gone to sleep myself -- but I didn't want to. :D It worked just fine and, as my eyes adjusted to the surrounding darkness, I found I could lower the light to a very very low setting and still see just fine.
 
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