Kindle Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone out there taken this?

https://www.yourfirst10kreaders.com/storyengines

I've watched Joe Nassisse's brief talk at 20Booksto50K a few years ago. (It's on YouTube.) This does seem like an interesting way of looking at plot.

Honestly, this is my issue: The total bill for the course is about $500, depending on exactly how you pay.

I don't have any trouble with people who come up with a good system getting paid for it. I've bought all of Chris Fox's books, for example.

I've noticed a trend, though: When you put the same content in an online video presentation (instead of a book), that automatically means a price tag in the hundreds of dollars.

This appears to be a 12-video course. I'd gladly pay $99. But $500 is a little steep. (And what I'd really like is a 200-page book for $10.99.)

All of this, of course, comes with the disclaimer: Anyone is free to charge what the market will bear for what they create.

I suppose what I'm really looking for, before I pass on this and move on, is a few of you who will claim, "Oh no, I took it and it's worth every penny!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
594 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
I have not taken the course but here is my thoughts. The 7 key things you need (according to him) are outlined on the sale page. You will pay 500 bucks to have him explain each one in detail. Now if that's worth it, depends on what you want.

Have you already published a book? Or are you new? Curious to why you think you might need this course.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Why not just by a few books on the subject, which will go into more depth anyway, and blow the rest on hats or whatever?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
779 Posts
SND said:
Why not just by a few books on the subject, which will go into more depth anyway, and blow the rest on hats or whatever?
This pretty much. Courses that are $500 or more are rarely worth it. More often than not they are just a repeat of what's found in the / a book you could have bought for $20.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,454 Posts
Patrick1980 said:
I've watched Joe Nassisse's brief talk at 20Booksto50K a few years ago. (It's on YouTube.) This does seem like an interesting way of looking at plot.
I haven't taken it, and I wouldn't.

Joe is a smart guy. I'm sure he presents this concept in a decent way. But it's just another very mild spin on 3 act structure, heroes journey, or Dan Harmon's Story Circle. The quick version from 20 Books is really enough information.

There are myriad free and cheap resources on those story structure concepts. If you aren't able to absorb and apply the basic idea from everything that's out there already, a huge cash outlay for Joe's version probably isn't going to be the answer.

If you aren't familiar with these other variations, Joe's version could be exactly the right presentation for you, as it was for some of his students. But they probably could have gotten it from a cheaper source as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,280 Posts
If you're going to take a 101 class, take Mark Dawson's.

I'd start with some $5 books though. I usually rec Chris Fox, but if this guy has a book, you can check that out too.

IME, every single book on structure says the same thing, just in a slightly different way. The different way is important--that's what makes it click for you--but it's never magic or secret. Everything is a variation of the three act structure or the hero's journey. Even a two act play is breaking at the midpoint (halfway through act two in three act structure).

The story beats are always the same.

Inciting incident.
Crossing the threshold.
Midpoint upping of stakes/twist.
Low point.
Climax.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks to all who replied.

No...I'm not brand new. I've published 11 novels and two short story collections. I'm also familiar with story structure concepts.

Here's my problem: As a reader, I tended toward writers who write long, complicated books: Ken Follett, James Michener, John Jakes, Herman Wouk. I also read a lot of short stories.

As a result, all my ideas tend to fall into two categories: 100K+ standalone novels, and short stories. My novels tend to involve a lot of characters and storylines (like Follett, Wouk, Michener).

I get good reviews, but I'm having a hard time gaining commercial traction because I release one standalone every 6 to 8 months. I need to learn how to write tightly focused 40K to 70K books.

The aforementioned training seemed to have a unique spin on plotting and structure. And when Joe describes his "before" situation, it sounds a lot like me now:

"I struggled to write even one full-length book a year when I started out, needing multiple drafts on each one to get the story right - rather than using that time to produce additional manuscripts and building my audience - meaning I missed out on that extra income and exposure."

I tend to write books that are over-plotted and take a long time to write. I thought this training might provide some special insights.

It doesn't sound like anyone here has taken the training, but you're probably all correct: This is just another spin on basic story beats, which are available in multiple sources.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
Patrick1980 said:
My novels tend to involve a lot of characters and storylines (like Follett, Wouk, Michener).

I get good reviews, but I'm having a hard time gaining commercial traction because I release one standalone every 6 to 8 months. I need to learn how to write tightly focused 40K to 70K books.
If you want to write shorter books, focus on the main plot (A) and a sub-plot (B) and leave out plots C and D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,115 Posts
Patrick1980 said:
... all my ideas tend to fall into two categories: 100K+ standalone novels... My novels tend to involve a lot of characters and storylines (like Follett, Wouk, Michener)
.... I release one standalone every 6 to 8 months. I need to learn how to write tightly focused 40K to 70K books.
How are you plotting?
Create the story beats to span three books with arcs inside for each book.
Write 120k to 210k as "one book"
Pull it apart at 40k to 70k each, just as you set the plot up.
Publish one a month.
Meanwhile, you are writing the next trilogy resulting in only a three month gap between the last of the first series and first of the second series assuming you keep to a six month writing cycle.

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,454 Posts
Patrick1980 said:
I get good reviews, but I'm having a hard time gaining commercial traction because I release one standalone every 6 to 8 months. I need to learn how to write tightly focused 40K to 70K books.
Shorter won't help gain commercial traction. Writing it series rather than standalones might.

Limiting yourself to a single point of view can help shorten books, and tighten the plot down to one core throughline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,280 Posts
I'm going to recommend some cheaper alternatives.

Again, Chris Fox. His books are only .99 atm and they have a ton of great info on writing to market, launching, and story structure.

I'm also going to recommend Becca Syme's books (and/or YouTube videos if you enjoy that format. I much prefer books). They are all about working with your natural talents & thought process.

If you are someone who needs time to write, who naturally writes more thoughtful, layered books, you're much better off playing to that strength vs trying to change it.

Find other ways to speed up (cut out distractions like social media) so you can release two books a year. Or maybe find a way to shift your narrative onto a trilogy framework. Etc.
 
Joined
·
286 Posts
Patrick1980 said:
Thanks to all who replied.

No...I'm not brand new. I've published 11 novels and two short story collections. I'm also familiar with story structure concepts.

Here's my problem: As a reader, I tended toward writers who write long, complicated books: Ken Follett, James Michener, John Jakes, Herman Wouk. I also read a lot of short stories.

As a result, all my ideas tend to fall into two categories: 100K+ standalone novels, and short stories. My novels tend to involve a lot of characters and storylines (like Follett, Wouk, Michener).

I get good reviews, but I'm having a hard time gaining commercial traction because I release one standalone every 6 to 8 months. I need to learn how to write tightly focused 40K to 70K books.

The aforementioned training seemed to have a unique spin on plotting and structure. And when Joe describes his "before" situation, it sounds a lot like me now:

"I struggled to write even one full-length book a year when I started out, needing multiple drafts on each one to get the story right - rather than using that time to produce additional manuscripts and building my audience - meaning I missed out on that extra income and exposure."

I tend to write books that are over-plotted and take a long time to write. I thought this training might provide some special insights.

It doesn't sound like anyone here has taken the training, but you're probably all correct: This is just another spin on basic story beats, which are available in multiple sources.
Not to contradict anything you're saying, but haven't we had posts about readers wanting LONGER books? Just something to consider. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,494 Posts
It always depends on what kind of learner one is. Some people learn well from books. Some can't easily learn from reading a book, but learn well from presentations, videos, hands-on, etc.

For me, I can't see paying that much. But, if it's the way to learn and one actually puts it all into practice and it dramatically improves the story, maybe it would be worth it.

But I'd try the cheaper way(s) first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Arches said:
I knew that, but I still enjoyed watching the videos.

And I don't plan to write my novels with exactly 24 scenes equally divided into four parts.
B-but... don't you wanna be rich?
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top