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For those of you that don't venture into the Writer's Cafe, there is an ongoing discussion regarding the new TOS changes initiated by the new site owners. The new terms are highly problematic and a huge rights grab. Because readers may not visit the Cafe, I wanted to share here to give folks a chance to review.

https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,267677.0.html
 

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If anyone wants to read it in its entirety, just scroll completely to the bottom of any KB page and click on the blue-linked Terms of Use.  The link does take you completely off site.

 

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Sad Day.....I've been a member here since 2008 but looks like 10 years is the limit.  I understand selling after Harvey was lost....but I don't see the great community built here surviving as a big Corp spam list. I don't think it will matter to Verticalscope either....they already got our info to sell
 

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I'm not techie.  So this is why lately I've gotten extreme amount of spam in my account??!!  I'll have to say good-bye too. 
 

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Since I sometimes am unable to read between the lines, what are the repercussions that we need to anticipate resulting from the buyout?

So far, what I seem to see (and I could be wrong) are as follows:

1)  Members who are writers are at risk of giving up their copyrights over pics, discussions and other items that were or are disclosed in KB, whether in the forum or in the messages
2)  All of our interaction here is now publicly searchable
3)  All of our email and membership info is now floating in the market and we should expect (or are already experiencing) more marketing emails in our registered accounts
4)  People within the forum will be less "free-speaking" and thus unable to replicate the community and friendship atmosphere we used to enjoy

Any other (theoretical or otherwise) implications?
 

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Brownskins said:
Since I sometimes am unable to read between the lines, what are the repercussions that we need to anticipate resulting from the buyout?

So far, what I seem to see (and I could be wrong) are as follows:

1) Members who are writers are at risk of giving up their copyrights over pics, discussions and other items that were or are disclosed in KB, whether in the forum or in the messages
2) All of our interaction here is now publicly searchable
3) All of our email and membership info is now floating in the market and we should expect (or are already experiencing) more marketing emails in our registered accounts
4) People within the forum will be less "free-speaking" and thus unable to replicate the community and friendship atmosphere we used to enjoy

Any other (theoretical or otherwise) implications?
2) has always been true. The rest of your points have already come to pass. I don't know if anything is salvageable at this point. It's depressing to see this once-vibrant community where I have made virtual and real-life friends dying in front of our eyes. I wish we had known something, anything, before the sale to a predatory company came to pass.

 

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Pretty sure posts where always publicly searchable. I mean Kboards came up in google searches all the time.

Obviously the authors are upset. Clearly. But since I am not a writer, just a reader and poster here, there isn't really any other place for me to go. None of the newish areas the authors are wanting to spread out to are reader friendly. They are specifically created for authors only. So its taking the writers cafe off site I guess. No having to deal with pesky readers anymore I guess?  ;D

For the rest of us, I have no clue what this all means. I been here since 2008. I don't belong to any other forums and its pretty much the only place I talk about books and movies and tea and such. I had in the past also hung out over in the writers section, but was kind of made not welcome one too many times by some of the writers there so I stopped bothering. I always wished more of them would have bothered to come out into the other areas more.
On the other hand maybe that is now a good thing with so many deleting all their posts, including thread titles. That makes the whole thread go away and so basically dumps on all of us that posted in them. At least I get to keep my beloved book threads. For now at least.

I guess they already have my email. I don't post anything worth monetizing so the legal stuff doesn't apply to me as it does to content creators like authors.

To be honest, I feel a bit lost. Still here and posting. But I feel a bit naked.
 

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Atunah, you are not alone in feeling a bit lost. Guess I'll stick around a little while and see how things go. There are several very enjoyable authors I would never have known about if it weren't for KBoards. We've also shared some pretty good recipes in a few different threads through the years.
 

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A lot of what I read over the last few years has come from recommendations in threads right here. Lots of the tea I have drunk came from here. Well, not the tea, but the knowledge of that tea.  8)
Lots of my smiles have come from here. And on days when I felt really not so great, I came here.

We aren't just words on a screen. All those connections, even if they seem trivial to some, it adds up. For years. Its like a web of teeny strings and one realizes just how much one values those connections when its threatened.

:(
 

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Atunah said:
To be honest, I feel a bit lost. Still here and posting. But I feel a bit naked.
loonlover said:
Atunah, you are not alone in feeling a bit lost. Guess I'll stick around a little while and see how things go. There are several very enjoyable authors I would never have known about if it weren't for KBoards. We've also shared some pretty good recipes in a few different threads through the years.
Ha. I feel exactly the same way. I was inactive for over a year due to work and travels, came back, and first post I read was on the announcement of the change. And I also noticed I don't hear from telracs anymore. I like the people here and have met a few in person. I am a male and a bit younger, but I love yall's company. I hope the forum survives (at least the reader community portion). Writers cafe has always been kind of separate and feels a bit elite. I comment there once in a while, but they don't engage as warmly as the rest do - presumably cause I appear stalker-like since I am not an author.
 

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It seems to me, from monitoring the boards in the last few days, that most of the concern is among authors who fear comments they make here might be used in ways they would not authorize if given the choice. Some have chosen to manually delete their posts. Some asked for account and post deletion but we mods have been told not to do that and, in fact, can no longer delete an account if a member requests it. I disagree with that policy.

That said, for now, I'm still here. I figure I'll spend time in the Book Corner because that's where all the cool people give me recommendations for books I actually WANT to read. ;D I admit I never bought much from author self-promo. Of the books I did buy based on that, maybe half I was glad I bought and would go on to buy more from the author.
 

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Not that it makes things any better/worse for anyone concerned about it, but if you look at the TOS/TOU agreements for any of the major web forums and such out there, I believe you'll find pretty much the same terms. I'm no lawyer, so don't know if it's to protect themselves as opposed to some nefarious plot to subvert copyright ownership. For instance, the Facebook TOS includes:
Permission to use content you create and share: You own the content you create and share on Facebook and the other Facebook Products you use, and nothing in these Terms takes away the rights you have to your own content. You are free to share your content with anyone else, wherever you want. To provide our services, though, we need you to give us some legal permissions to use that content.

Specifically, when you share, post, or upload content that is covered by intellectual property rights (like photos or videos) on or in connection with our Products, you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, and worldwide license to host, use, distribute, modify, run, copy, publicly perform or display, translate, and create derivative works of your content (consistent with your privacy and application settings). This means, for example, that if you share a photo on Facebook, you give us permission to store, copy, and share it with others (again, consistent with your settings) such as service providers that support our service or other Facebook Products you use.

You can end this license any time by deleting your content or account. You should know that, for technical reasons, content you delete may persist for a limited period of time in backup copies (though it will not be visible to other users). In addition, content you delete may continue to appear if you have shared it with others and they have not deleted it.
 
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NogDog said:
Not that it makes things any better/worse for anyone concerned about it, but if you look at the TOS/TOU agreements for any of the major web forums and such out there, I believe you'll find pretty much the same terms. I'm no lawyer, so don't know if it's to protect themselves as opposed to some nefarious plot to subvert copyright ownership. For instance, the Facebook TOS includes:
https://bardsandsages.com/**********/2018/09/19/verticalscopes-overreaching-tos/

I address that specifically in my summary of the situation. I also explained it in the larger thread, but it is lost in the 25+ pages.
 

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NogDog said:
Not that it makes things any better/worse for anyone concerned about it, but if you look at the TOS/TOU agreements for any of the major web forums and such out there, I believe you'll find pretty much the same terms. I'm no lawyer, so don't know if it's to protect themselves as opposed to some nefarious plot to subvert copyright ownership. For instance, the Facebook TOS includes:
This IS a fair point . . . . .

Some feel that the VS TOS goes beyond that -- a step too far for many.

Many more weren't hugely bothered but wanted some input and assurance from the new ownership. That didn't happen. So more people became concerned at the lack of respectful response.

I think many see it as one more straw:

forum sold
vigilings showing up in posts (later stopped)
change in ad policy
more spam to the email address on record
unannounced change in TOS
no response for days
less than useful response posted
less than courteous response posted (calling members 'trolls'! :eek:)

and the final straw (for many)
not allowing moderators to delete accounts and mass delete posts if members request it. :(

And, they've not yet fixed the reading bar. I've taken mine out of my signature as it's useless -- I've read 2 dozen books since then. Oh! I should put my GoodReads page there instead. :D
 

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For some time now I've mainly just been coming by here to check up on old (figuratively!) friends, so to speak, so admittedly have limited insight into the changes. I always have my ad-blocker running, and my attached email account is one I use for such things where I don't actually look at it much, so I don't even know if I've been getting spam. Ignorance truly is bliss, sometimes. :)
 

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One part of me holds out the small hope the reader community will re-engage and KB can return to its roots.  The other part of me says I don't want my words to be associated with, nor my recommendation links of everything from books to tea, to support a company who is unwilling to compromise on the very real concerns of the creatives who have dominated the boards in the last few years.

I'm also in the camp who thinks our email addresses have already been monetized since the change of ownership.  I've had more junk mail/spam in my account associated with this site in the last few weeks than I have had in the 9 1/2 years I've been here put together.  I also don't like the powers of our volunteer mods who have been here since the beginning being taken away when we were told none of that would change. 

I'm so torn between cutting ties completely and losing contact with people and a place that have been a huge part of my life for almost 10 years.
 

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Ann in Arlington said:
And, they've not yet fixed the reading bar. I've taken mine out of my signature as it's useless -- I've read 2 dozen books since then. Oh! I should put my GoodReads page there instead. :D
I took mine out too. But I was trying to put one of the goodreads widgets in the siggy instead, but it won't let me. It just shows code. On goodreads it say something like if the board doesn't accept java script it won't work. I think it was java. That stuff is over my head. But I was going to put one of the book cover widgets in. No can do. I can't figure out a way to show off my read books. Odd that the authors signature seemed to work fine. But nothing for us readers. Always feel left out.
 

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Thanks for making us aware of this. I'm not an author, so that aspect of it won't affect me personally, but it's sad to see these changes. I have noticed an increase in spam emails in the last 2 weeks or so, but I never made a connection to kboards. I actually thought it was my email provider purposely letting spam through so they could then try to sell me an anti-spam service. (Has happened before.) Since I don't use a unique email for kboards, I'm not sure how I would tell what's generating the spam.

For now, I plan to stick around and see what happens. I've seen other good sites fall apart; I hope that doesn't happen with kboards. I don't post that often, but I do look in almost every day, and always find something interesting and often helpful here. I hope a lot of you will wait out the changes too. I haven't met people on this thread in person, but I'm recognizing most of the user names and would miss seeing your posts if you decide to leave!
 
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