Kindle Forum banner
21 - 25 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,133 Posts
Per the remark about balancing the budget on the backs of the poor...

Granted, there are many different kinds of taxes and they get paid in very different ways. Federal and state income taxes are very cut and dry things. They're easy to quantify and figure out who pays and who does not. Poor people do not pay federal income tax, so the remark that the budget will/can/may get balanced on their backs does not apply concerning that tax. However, that might be a different discussion as far as poor people and consumption/sales taxes.

In 2008, the top 1% of taxpayers paid 38% of all federal income tax collected. In 2008, the top 5% of taxpayers paid 58.7% of all federal income tax collected. I think, currently, somewhere in the vicinity of 48-49% of the lowest income earners (all the poor, and then some) pay no federal income tax at all.

Those numbers are interesting for a lot of reasons. However, I'm not sure how to make a proper argument that the top income earners (say, for point of discussion, that top 5%) should be paying even more in taxes in order to balance the government's budget, make SS solvent, pay for the wars, welfare, other entitlements, etc. I would be interested in hearing some reasoning on that.

Some of the stats from: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html , and then you can click through to the IRS data they're pulling from. No, I don't know whether the Tax Foundation is partisan or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
Further to TL's point, I worked with a young lady who was quite open about the fact that she was working for six months only so she could qualify for unemployment on the other side of that. Her husband did some unsavory things for their real income, hers was the "legitimate" income so that no one looked too closely at where their money came from. As I said, she was quite vocal about the whole thing, shockingly so. She drove a very nice car, and spent more on her wardrobe and jewelry in the half year I knew her than I have in my whole life. I know there are lots of people who need real help, and I do want to help them, but there are at least as many of these people as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,587 Posts
I don't actually think anyone has posted in this thread the position that the poor pay a lot of taxes or that they will pay a lot of taxes.
I agree with the numbers that you have presented.
I would also point out that the IRS 2008 figures show the AGI of $380,000+ for the top 1%, who were paying 38% of all taxes.
The report also shows that 97% of all taxes paid are paid by the top 50% with an AGI of $33,000+ per year.
This would indicate that some 60% of all income taxes are paid by those who make between $33,000 and $380,000 - this is a lot and not exactly the super-rich.
Some would make the point that those making over $380,000 don't pay enough - consider that the top tax bracket is currently 38% - taxing the AGI that one cannot shelter.
In 1955 the top tax bracket was 91%.
And as recently as 1981 it was 71%.

So the highest paid folks have been paying less and less recently - as a percentage of their AGI.

But the worst situation is how little big business pays.
Small business pays a lot actually and they employ a lot of people.
But big companies do not pay their share.
I am not agains big companies - I like them.
My earlier comment about GE was not meant in a mean-spirited way.  Their statements about not paying any taxes - I did not take those comments badly.  They were just stating that the government makes it possible for them to not pay any taxes while being very profitable.  And they would be cheating their stockholders if they did not take advantage of these regulations.
They are doing nothing "wrong".
And if GE is paying no taxes then you know a lot of other big companies are not either.
And Congress knows this.
They also know they ok subsidies (paying money) to  Exxon/Mobil and other big oil companies who are making windfall profits.  This is all public information.


And we are talking about cutting Social Security Benefits (that we the taxpayers have already paid for).  

That is stealing.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
T.L. Haddix said:
I don't know if you meant your post to come across as condescending and derisive, but that's how I interpreted it, and I responded in turn. Sorry if I misunderstood. Obviously this is a topic that gets me very upset. It is beyond frustrating to work your butt off and then turn around and have someone from the government standing there holding their hand out, saying 'give me your money so I can distribute it wherever I want to' and knowing you cannot stop them from taking it.
I'll be honest. I'm skeptical of the stories. I think there's a lot of misinformation out there that leads people to believe things that aren't true.

Like this:

T.L. Haddix said:
And that reminds me of something - happened about two, three years ago. A lot of people don't know this, but the first stimulus package? It did away with welfare reform.
No. The stimulus package did three things concerning welfare.

1. Sends $5 Billion to an emergency fund that was created in 2005. The fund was originally set up to help Hurricane Katrina-effected states deal with the aftermath. It is now being re-utilized for the financial crisis.

2. Allows states to apply for grants from the emergency fund. The states can request grants quarterly, in any quarter, for expenses that exceed the corresponding (2007) baseline quarter. 80% of the expenses will be granted from the emergency fund. States are responsible to pay for the remaining 20%.

3. Cuts off this additional funding at the end of fiscal 2010 (= Sept 31, 2010). At this point, the federal welfare funding system returns to present day operation.

Anyone can read the bill here ( http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1enr.pdf ). Go to page 332 to read the provisions that impacted welfare reform.

T.L. Haddix said:
Wild account - no, not really. It's the truth. Like it or not. That's a big part of the reason we left eastern Kentucky twelve years ago, and southern Indiana earlier this month. Yes, Erica - Dozens of people like that every single blasted time I left the house - again, like it or not, it is the truth.
Indiana, right in the heartland of America, sounds like the type of wasteland only Ayn Rand could create in her wildest fantasy.

T.L. Haddix said:
Mitch Daniels, conservative - responsible for this degradation in society in southern Indiana? I don't know. I started noticing this increase in entitlement seekers about two years ago. I don't have a degree in economics, and I can't begin to predict what the cause of it was. I will tell you this - the state of Indiana is not small-business friendly. It is not taxpayer-friendly. There used to be a lot of benefits to living in Indiana, and now there are not.
Well, I would think that the governor who has been there for six years might have something to do with a problem that's been going on for two years. That, or he's completely powerless.

T.L. Haddix said:
And yes, before someone thinks they're going to point it out to the 'Bible-thumping, ignorant, narrow-minded and greedy' conservative T. L., I am fully aware which president is responsible for that first stimulus package. I can't tell you how disgusted that made me, that Bush supported such a detrimental package. It should never have been passed. The market should have been left to correct itself.
That wasn't a stimulus package. It was a bailout of Wall Street fat cats, and no one should have been surprised that any of our leaders, Democratic or Republican, found a way to shower these people with money.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
63,460 Posts
We've found over time that political discussions never go well here on KBoards.  We've also learned that when a discussion devolves to two members picking apart each other's posts, it's pretty much of a discussion killer.  And finally, we always ask that members do not put words in other member's mouths.

I see all of this happening in this thread at this point...y'all can either chill or I'm going to have to lock the thread....

Betsy
KB Moderator

 
21 - 25 of 25 Posts
Top