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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Time to plunge right to the deep end of the pool. You officially have my permission to finish Voyager ... not that most of you haven't already. ;D

Here's this week's questions. I'm not answering them this time, but I'll still discuss with you as you respond.

Part 8--Voyager

"On The Water"
Chapters 40-52

1. Has Jared changed since we saw him 20 years ago?

2. How did you feel about Claire's visit to the hospital?

3. How did you feel about Jamie being a Mason?

4. We meet another historical figure, Mayer Rothschild. Do you like it when DG introduces us to these figures? Would the story be as interesting without them?

5. Knowing Jamie's susceptibility to seasickness, do you think he will overcome it after a day or two at sea as Jared assures him he will?

6. What complications can you forsee for Jamie now that Fergus has eloped with Marsali?

7. Why do you think Jamie waited so long to let Mr. Willoughby help him?

8. What do you think of Claire's final letter to Bree?

Stand up straight and try not to get fat.

9. What did you think of Mr. Willoughby's story?

10. Once again, Claire finds herself talking to a young girls about what to expect in a marriage. How well do you think Claire handled Marsali's questions?

11. Do you think Captain Leonard was justified in taking Claire away on the Porpoise?

12. Were you surprised to find John Gray aboard the Porpoise? Do you think he recognized Claire?

13. Tompkins holds the key to what happened in Edinburgh and Arbroath. What did you think of his story? Do you still think there is another traitor among the smugglers?

14. Do you think Claire made the right decision to escape from the Porpoise?

15. What did you think of Claire running across the naturalist Jamie mentioned in a swamp a half a world away?

16. What did you think of Father Fogden's story?

17. Do you think Father Fogden is insane, or just drunken and eccentric? What do you think about his sheep?

18. Were you surprised when Jamie showed up on the Porpoise?

19. How do you think Jamie got to be captain of the guard on Hispaniola?

20. Discuss Marsali and Fergus' wedding.
 

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I meant to re-read these chapters at the weekend. I only read them about a week ago but I'm already halfway through Fiery Cross so I have forgotten a lot by now. Will answer what I can!

2. How did you feel about Claire's visit to the hospital?
I was touched by it. By now, I'd forgotten about Faith so wondered at first who she was visiting. Sad :-[

3. How did you feel about Jamie being a Mason?
Surprised and not surprised at the same time. Wondered when on earth he found time in his up and down life!


5. Knowing Jamie's susceptibility to seasickness, do you think he will overcome it after a day or two at sea as Jared assures him he will?

No, I couldn't see how.

6. What complications can you forsee for Jamie now that Fergus has eloped with Marsali?
Well, I'd hoped Jamie never had to lay eyes on Laoghaire or her offspring ever again. I see that witch blaming him for absolutely anything that could go wrong, like accusing him of kidnapping even. ugh.


8. What do you think of Claire's final letter to Bree?

Stand up straight and try not to get fat.


Kind of odd that last line; didn't take Claire to be the type to be bothered by something like that. Sounds very much something like my mother used to tell me.

9. What did you think of Mr. Willoughby's story?
I was really absorbed in that and felt very sad for him. I'm an immigrant through choice in a modern time, which can be hard enough, and I am always very moved to hear such hardships of people fleeing their land and how they are treated when they seek refuge. Of course, he had to go and ruin it with his rant about European women after he'd finally gained everyone's sympathies!

10. Once again, Claire finds herself talking to a young girls about what to expect in a marriage. How well do you think Claire handled Marsali's questions?
Extremely well given that Marsali had been ignoring her for weeks and just called her a whore. I would have been hopping mad and doubt I could have held my tongue so well! I was so angry at Marsali and that even Fergus hadn't been able to stop her attitude.

11. Do you think Captain Leonard was justified in taking Claire away on the Porpoise?
I am sure he thought he was, but Claire had given him enough information that they could have dealt with it, albeit with less dedication than Claire.

12. Were you surprised to find John Gray aboard the Porpoise? Do you think he recognized Claire?
I knew he'd show up somewhere again and was pleased when he did. I like John Grey a lot. Don't think he recognized her.

13. Tompkins holds the key to what happened in Edinburgh and Arbroath. What did you think of his story? Do you still think there is another traitor among the smugglers?
Yes I think there is another traitor.

14. Do you think Claire made the right decision to escape from the Porpoise?
Yes - what else could she do?

15. What did you think of Claire running across the naturalist Jamie mentioned in a swamp a half a world away?
I wasn't too surprised. In that time, how many naturalists were there really? Not too many I imagine, and no less of a coincidence then when my mother was in a rainforest in Australia and bumped into someone she knew 30 years ago LOL!

16. What did you think of Father Fogden's story?
Kind of odd!! Wasn't sure why we got all of that, didn't seem to fit anything.

17. Do you think Father Fogden is insane, or just drunken and eccentric? What do you think about his sheep?
Drunken and eccentric but maybe driven insane by the solitude and his crazy mother in law. His sheep were his only family now.

18. Were you surprised when Jamie showed up on the Porpoise?
No, but I did groan very loudly!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
danfan said:
I meant to re-read these chapters at the weekend. I only read them about a week ago but I'm already halfway through Fiery Cross so I have forgotten a lot by now. Will answer what I can!
Wow, you're moving fast.


8. What do you think of Claire's final letter to Bree?

Stand up straight and try not to get fat.


Kind of odd that last line; didn't take Claire to be the type to be bothered by something like that. Sounds very much something like my mother used to tell me.
The strange things we think of when under a great deal of stress. My mother still tells me to stand up straight. :D

15. What did you think of Claire running across the naturalist Jamie mentioned in a swamp a half a world away?
I wasn't too surprised. In that time, how many naturalists were there really? Not too many I imagine, and no less of a coincidence then when my mother was in a rainforest in Australia and bumped into someone she knew 30 years ago LOL!
I was in Ireland, enjoying a medieval dinner in Bunratty Castle, and the people across from us lived around the corner from my mother. Neither one of us were on a tour.

16. What did you think of Father Fogden's story?
Kind of odd!! Wasn't sure why we got all of that, didn't seem to fit anything.
Other than explaining he eccentricity.

17. Do you think Father Fogden is insane, or just drunken and eccentric? What do you think about his sheep?
Drunken and eccentric but maybe driven insane by the solitude and his crazy mother in law. His sheep were his only family now.
I think it was a bit more than that. He referred to his sheep as his flock. Of course, that's what you call a group of sheep. But it's also what a priest calls his parishioners. I think Fogden is living in the past, because he can't deal with the present. Between Ermenegilda's loss and having to live with Mamacity, I think he would rather live in a simpler time when he was a priest, tending his flock (parishioners).
 

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Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:
Wow, you're moving fast.
I know, I read about 10 times faster with my Kindle than I did with a book. Seriously though - my house is now a mess and my poor husband is handling the garden all on his own. I don't think I would have coped in an 18th century life with all that manual labor when there are so many books to read. ;D Heck, I should stick him in a kilt and just pretend we're in Lallybroch.

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:
The strange things we think of when under a great deal of stress. My mother still tells me to stand up straight. :D
lol. I don't see my mother much since I moved to US but speak to her on the phone once or twice a week. At least once a month she says "Have you put on any weight?"

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:
I think it was a bit more than that. He referred to his sheep as his flock. Of course, that's what you call a group of sheep. But it's also what a priest calls his parishioners. I think Fogden is living in the past, because he can't deal with the present. Between Ermenegilda's loss and having to live with Mamacity, I think he would rather live in a simpler time when he was a priest, tending his flock (parishioners).
Good catch, I missed that flock reference. Certainly I agree that he's living in a closed world, denying his present. He has a hard life to live, away from his vocation and suffering that odd woman every day!
 

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Part 8--Voyager

"On The Water"
Chapters 40-52

I've been lurking through the first two books, but love reading all of your insightful comments. I have finished Voyager and am fighting the impulse to start Drums. By the way Gertie (Margaret), my time off from the Outlander series has given me an opportunity to read Ariana's Pride, which I am loving!

1. Has Jared changed since we saw him 20 years ago?
Didn't really have a strong feeling about this.

2. How did you feel about Claire's visit to the hospital?
I thought at first that she went to see the grave of Mother Hildegard. It was really touching to think of Claire still grieving Faith.

3. How did you feel about Jamie being a Mason?
Not surprised. His self-transformations have kept him alive.

4. We meet another historical figure, Mayer Rothschild. Do you like it when DG introduces us to these figures? Would the story be as interesting without them?
I love the references to historical figures. I think about what it must be like for Claire to meet them or even hear reference to them, like Mother Hildegarde mention of Bach.

5. Knowing Jamie's susceptibility to seasickness, do you think he will overcome it after a day or two at sea as Jared assures him he will?
I hoped so, but doubted that he would. I never thought the seasickness would become as intense as it did.

6. What complications can you forsee for Jamie now that Fergus has eloped with Marsali?
Laheer, Laheer. He will have to pay for this at some point, I think.

7. Why do you think Jamie waited so long to let Mr. Willoughby help him?
Would you want needles sticking out of your face? It had to seem heathenistic - like a voodoo doll, but, it really opened my eyes to the depth of Mr. Willoughby''s character and experiences.

8. What do you think of Claire's final letter to Bree?
It broke my heart.

Stand up straight and try not to get fat.

9. What did you think of Mr. Willoughby's story?
Wow! It made me think of all of the immigrants who have come to America, professionals and educated people, who have to put all that behind them and become who they may in the new world.

10. Once again, Claire finds herself talking to a young girls about what to expect in a marriage. How well do you think Claire handled Marsali's questions?
In spite of Marsali's hostility, Claire rose above that and counseled her in a way that Laheer never could.

11. Do you think Captain Leonard was justified in taking Claire away on the Porpoise?
No, but I understand his desperation.

12. Were you surprised to find John Gray aboard the Porpoise? Do you think he recognized Claire?
Yes, but I wasn't surprised to see him again. Actually, I'm not surprised to see any of DG's characters again! I really like Lord Gray and think he will be a long-time ally for Jamie.

13. Tompkins holds the key to what happened in Edinburgh and Arbroath. What did you think of his story? Do you still think there is another traitor among the smugglers?
I think he told the truth and I believe there is another traitor.

14. Do you think Claire made the right decision to escape from the Porpoise?
I can't even imagine jumping into the ocean, at night, and hoping to survive - sharks, storms. It took a lot of courage for her to do this. I think Claire is a courageous woman, but this really increased my respect for her.

15. What did you think of Claire running across the naturalist Jamie mentioned in a swamp a half a world away?
The coincidences are what make this series amazing!

16. What did you think of Father Fogden's story?
Another one of DG's wonderful characters. I think the loss of his love destroyed him.

17. Do you think Father Fogden is insane, or just drunken and eccentric? What do you think about his sheep?
He's a drunken, pot-head. I only hope he's not molesting his sheep!

18. Were you surprised when Jamie showed up on the Porpoise?
YES! And I wanted to scream!

19. How do you think Jamie got to be captain of the guard on Hispaniola?
That's a really good question. It's really a tribute to his ability to morph into whoever he needs to be to survive. People believe him; they trust him. Obviously, he gave the garrison a story that made sense. BUT, what about the other soldiers who were with him when he took the ship? Did he let them go?

20. Discuss Marsali and Fergus' wedding.
One of the funniest scenes so far!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
izzykolo said:
Part 8--Voyager

"On The Water"
Chapters 40-52

I've been lurking through the first two books, but love reading all of your insightful comments. I have finished Voyager and am fighting the impulse to start Drums.
Glad to see you've un-lurked. Welcome to the Klub. As many times as I have read these books, I'm gaining a whole new insight with everyone's responses.

By the way Gertie (Margaret), my time off from the Outlander series has given me an opportunity to read Ariana's Pride, which I am loving!
I'm still Gertie to all my KB friends. ;) I'm so happy that you are enjoying AP.

4. We meet another historical figure, Mayer Rothschild. Do you like it when DG introduces us to these figures? Would the story be as interesting without them?
I love the references to historical figures. I think about what it must be like for Claire to meet them or even hear reference to them, like Mother Hildegarde mention of Bach.
These people send me running to Wiki to get the background. It's a major reason why I love historical novels.

10. Once again, Claire finds herself talking to a young girls about what to expect in a marriage. How well do you think Claire handled Marsali's questions?
In spite of Marsali's hostility, Claire rose above that and counseled her in a way that Laheer never could.
No, Laheer would not have handled it well. As Young Ian says about her; she doesn't even fight properly.

3. How did you feel about Jamie being a Mason?
Not surprised. His self-transformations have kept him alive.

19. How do you think Jamie got to be captain of the guard on Hispaniola?
That's a really good question. It's really a tribute to his ability to morph into whoever he needs to be to survive. People believe him; they trust him. Obviously, he gave the garrison a story that made sense. BUT, what about the other soldiers who were with him when he took the ship? Did he let them go?
Good insight. Jamie may sometimes feel like he's got too many identities, but you're right. Reinventing himself is how he survives. It's also a very compelling reason why he needs Claire so much. She's the only one he can be himself with, say anything to, love without reservation, and she's the only one who doesn't want anything from him.

20. Discuss Marsali and Fergus' wedding.
One of the funniest scenes so far!
Funny (Will you take this man who may or may not have a cock) and touching (Fergus Claudel Fraser).
 

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Funny (Will you take this man who may or may not have a cock) and touching (Fergus Claudel Fraser). 

Yes, while the wedding scene was wonderfully funny, the moment when Jamie acknowledges that he has adopted Fergus as a son is truly touching. DG is remarkable at taking a moment like this and just driving it home, visually and emotionally. Love it.
 

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8. What do you think of Claire's final letter to Bree?

Stand up straight and try not to get fat.
Brianna being a big, tall lass...probably slouched quite a bit so to not tower over her friends as a young girl. I am not that tall (5'8") but I can recall the anguish of being head and shoulders above all my friends. "Stand up straight" in that context, reads to me "Be happy with yourself" The try not to get fat....well....it is the late 60's where Twiggy is a twig.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
izzykolo said:
Funny (Will you take this man who may or may not have a cock) and touching (Fergus Claudel Fraser).

Yes, while the wedding scene was wonderfully funny, the moment when Jamie acknowledges that he has adopted Fergus as a son is truly touching. DG is remarkable at taking a moment like this and just driving it home, visually and emotionally. Love it.
Then DG ends the chapter with ... What I tell you three times is true. (deeply felt sigh)

ravenclawprefect said:
Brianna being a big, tall lass...probably slouched quite a bit so to not tower over her friends as a young girl. I am not that tall (5'8") but I can recall the anguish of being head and shoulders above all my friends. "Stand up straight" in that context, reads to me "Be happy with yourself" The try not to get fat....well....it is the late 60's where Twiggy is a twig.
Twiggy then ...



Twiggy now ...

 

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izzykolo said:
19. How do you think Jamie got to be captain of the guard on Hispaniola?
That's a really good question. It's really a tribute to his ability to morph into whoever he needs to be to survive. People believe him; they trust him. Obviously, he gave the garrison a story that made sense. BUT, what about the other soldiers who were with him when he took the ship? Did he let them go?

20. Discuss Marsali and Fergus' wedding.
One of the funniest scenes so far!
ok, I remember the Hispaniola scenes now. LOL I did think WTH?? How the heck does he manage these things?? I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall.

The wedding.... I silently cheered Jamie for giving Fergus his name. Fergus idolized Jamie from so young and was no longer just his employee but his son. Wonderful!
LOL yeah - the marriage vows themselves and Father Fogden were too funny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Toby said:
Yeah, that wedding was funny, with Father "frockless". Then I felt like crying when Jamie gave Fergus his name.
:D :D :D

Claire came back to Jamie, from an era where their children drank & smoked pot. The Father is drinking Sangria, also from Claire's era & smoking pot. Must be that things never change in 200 years!!! ;)
Yeah, Claire was experiencing a flashback with that scene. Jamie isn't aware of Sangria and pot, though.
 

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Part 8--Voyager

"On The Water"
Chapters 40-52

1.  Has Jared changed since we saw him 20 years ago?
I don’t think so. He is still the prosperous wine merchant who cares about his family.

2.  How did you feel about Claire’s visit to the hospital?
It was sad to read about her visiting Faith’s grave. I am sure she thought this was something she would never be able to do.

3.  How did you feel about Jamie being a Mason?
I had not realized how old the Mason society was. It seemed like an odd thing at the time.

4.  We meet another historical figure, Mayer Rothschild.  Do you like it when DG introduces us to these figures?  Would the story be as interesting without them?
It helps place people and places in the right time frame. I think introducing true historical figures makes them seem more human and the story more real.

5.  Knowing Jamie’s susceptibility to seasickness, do you think he will overcome it after a day or two at sea as Jared assures him he will?
Jamie is going to be green the entire trip!

6.  What complications can you forsee for Jamie now that Fergus has eloped with Marsali?
Loaghaire could have Jamie and Fergus arrested for kidnapping or insist on more money for a dowry.

7.  Why do you think Jamie waited so long to let Mr. Willoughby help him?
Jamie is a Scot. He doesn’t like new things, and acupuncture is way out of his range of experience.

8.  What do you think of Claire’s final letter to Bree?
I’m not sure I would have been a coherent. How do you tell your child all they mean to you, knowing you will never see them again?

Stand up straight and try not to get fat.

9.  What did you think of Mr. Willoughby’s story?
It was sad. It also answered a lot of questions about him. Is he The Fiend and this is why? 

10.  Once again, Claire finds herself talking to a young girl about what to expect in a marriage.  How well do you think Claire handled Marsali’s questions?
This was a very touchy situation. Marsali didn’t like Claire, but she didn’t know anything about sex. The only thing Marsali knew was that her mom was scared of Jamie, but Claire enjoyed Jamie.

11.  Do you think Captain Leonard was justified in taking Claire away on the Porpoise?
In whose mind? He was desperate to make it to Jamaica, but knew he couldn’t without medical care for his men.

12.  Were you surprised to find John Gray aboard the Porpoise?  Do you think he recognized Claire? 
He had to come back into the picture. Of course he would not recognize Claire. He had never met her and she wasn’t using the name of Fraser, so there would be no connection to Jamie.

13.  Tompkins holds the key to what happened in Edinburgh and Arbroath.  What did you think of his story?  Do you still think there is another traitor among the smugglers?
I think he told the truth, but there had to be someone on the inside to pass on information.

14.  Do you think Claire made the right decision to escape from the Porpoise?
She’s Claire. She couldn’t do anything else. Her only focus was to find and warn Jamie.

15.  What did you think of Claire running across the naturalist Jamie mentioned in a swamp a half a world away?
What a coincidence.

16.  What did you think of Father Fogden’s story? 
His woman must have been an exceptional woman to make him leave the priesthood and run off with her when she was married to another man.

17.  Do you think Father Fogden is insane, or just drunken and eccentric?  What do you think about his sheep?
A hippy about 200 years ahead of the trend! I think there was definitely something wrong with him. Even when he wasn’t drunk, his care of his sheep was over the top.

18.  Were you surprised when Jamie showed up on the Porpoise?
No, he is still the same Jamie he was 20 years ago.

19.  How do you think Jamie got to be captain of the guard on Hispaniola?
Jamie was a leader and drew men to him. People would follow whatever he said, because he would never ask more than he was willing to do himself.

20.  Discuss Marsali and Fergus’ wedding.
It was very unconventional, but Marsali was going to hold Jamie to his promise that she and Fergus could marry as soon as they found a priest.
 

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tlshaw *Padded Cell 511* said:
12. Were you surprised to find John Gray aboard the Porpoise? Do you think he recognized Claire?
He had to come back into the picture. Of course he would not recognize Claire. He had never met her and she wasn't using the name of Fraser, so there would be no connection to Jamie.
John Grey had met Claire many many years ago. He was the young soldier who thought she'd been kidnapped by Jamie when they were set up camp prior to the battle at Prestopans, and John crept up behind Jamie to attack him & Jamie broke his arm. Remember when Jamie ripped the front of her dress and gagged her, going along with the pretense to get Grey to talk?
 

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danfan said:
John Grey had met Claire many many years ago. He was the young soldier who thought she'd been kidnapped by Jamie when they were set up camp prior to the battle at Prestopans. Remember when Jamie ripped the front of her dress and gagged her, going along with the pretense to get Grey to talk?
Oh yeah. How could I forget! :( I was just thinking about John and Jamie knowing each other at Ardsmuir. But, it had been 20 years and she was traveling under a different name. Also, he was under the same impression of everyone else that Claire was dead.
 

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tlshaw *Padded Cell 511* said:
Oh yeah. How could I forget! :( I was just thinking about John and Jamie knowing each other at Ardsmuir. But, it had been 20 years and she was traveling under a different name. Also, he was under the same impression of everyone else that Claire was dead.
Yes, he did think she was dead so even if he'd seen a resemblance, it may not have entered his head at all, being locked up in a cabin on a ship plagued with small pox!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
tlshaw *Padded Cell 511* said:
Oh yeah. How could I forget! :( I was just thinking about John and Jamie knowing each other at Ardsmuir. But, it had been 20 years and she was traveling under a different name. Also, he was under the same impression of everyone else that Claire was dead.
I'm sure there is no way Claire would know who John was, either. He was just a young boy at the time. When she looked at the prison records from Ardsmuir, she probably didn't bother looking at the Commandant's name, so she wouldn't have known who he was from his name, either. If she had, she might have jumped off the Porpoise earlier.
 

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      LOL! Gertie, that's funny! Claire would have jumped ship earlier........LOL!

      What's worse is, I did not even pick up on John Grey's name at all as Governer, until you mentioned his character showing up.  ::) I think I would have, however, had John or Claire reacted as if 1 or the other or both recognized each other or their name.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Vegas_Asian (Experiment#305) said:
I just realized that Lord John Grey has his own series: :D Have lots of reading to do. (just finished Voyager)


Another Thing: May I join the book klub?
Absolutely. We'd love to have you. Jump right in.

I only read Lord John and the Private Matter and I wasn't impressed.
 
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