[Gertie Kindle]

Another nail-biting, edge-of-my-seat, breathtaking, blockbuster of an ending.

I would like to start reading Drums of Autumn this week if it's okay with y'all. We want to be finished by the time Echo comes out, and that's less than four months away. I want to build in some extra time in case there's a delay for some reason. I'll ask Betsy to start a new thread for it.

We'll read Chapters 1-9 of DoA this week.

Here are the questions for this weeks discussion.

Part 9--Voyager

"World's Unknown"
Chapters 53-63

1. Do you think it was in character for Claire to attack the auctioneer at the slave market? Do you think it would have happened if Claire had actually been born in the 18th Century?

2. How did you feel when Jamie went into the slaves funeral pyre looking for Ian? Did you think Ian might be there?

3. Do you think the Bruja attacked the Artemis deliberately? If so, why?

4. In reminiscing about Culloden and Murtagh, how do you think Jamie feels? Claire? How do you feel?

7. What do you think of Ishmael? Do you believe his story?

8. Claire recognizes Ishmael's voice as the same as Joe Abernathy. Do you think that Ishmael could be an ancestor of Joe Abernathy?

9. What did you think of Claire assisting Graham Menzies to commit suicide? Was this in character for her?

10. Why do you think Ishmael wanted to take Temeraire with him?

11. What did you think happened to Miss Campbell when you read that she was missing?

12. John seems even more shocked to see Claire than he is to see Jamie. Why do you think that is?

13. Do you think Mr. Willoughby killed Mina Alcott? If not, who do you think did?

14. Why do you think Lord John showed Claire Willie's portrait and told her in such detail about Jamie and Geneva?

15. Gellie ... discuss her reappearance.

16. What do you think Gellie hoped to accomplish by returning to her own time? How could she have hoped to cope with modern times again?

17. What do you think of Gellie's assertion that she and Claire are witches? Why do you think they are able to go through the stones?

18. Gellie mentioned she had met one other time traveler. Who do you think it was?

19. How do you think Mr. Willoughby happened to be at Rose Hall?

20. Did you suspect that Rev. Campbell was The Fiend?

21. How did you feel about Mr. Willoughby's confession that he betrayed Jamie at Arbroath and why he did it?

22. Ishmael and his men save Claire from the crocodile. How did you feel about Miss Campbell's role in the ceremony?

23. Why do you think Gellie chose Ian for her plan?

24. Claire is terrified by the pull of the cave. Do you think Jamie would be able to save her from passing through the stones again?

25. Do you think Gellie is finally dead?

26. Do you think Ishmael and Miss Campbell survived the blasting of the Bruja? If they did, why?

27. What did you think of the pinnace surviving the hurricane and the man o' war sinking?

28. Do you think Jamie is over his seasickness?

29. Jamie and Claire are in America. What do you think is going to happen now?

 

[Toby]

Gertie & others, just curious, but are the prices for the Outlander series paperbacks & hardbacks going up?

 

[tlshaw]

"World's Unknown"
Chapters 53-63

1. Do you think it was in character for Claire to attack the auctioneer at the slave market? Do you think it would have happened if Claire had actually been born in the 18th Century?
It was definitely Claire's style. She could not bear to see anyone mistreated. If Claire had actually been born in the 18th century, I am not sure if she would have attacked the auctioneer, but I think she would have been an early abolitionist.

2. How did you feel when Jamie went into the slaves funeral pyre looking for Ian? Did you think Ian might be there?
I was on the edge o my chair hoping he would not be there. If he wasn't, then he was most likely still alive.

3. Do you think the Bruja attacked the Artemis deliberately? If so, why?
The Bruja was a pirate ship and they would attack any merchant vessel, so, yes, I think it was deliberate.

4. In reminiscing about Culloden and Murtagh, how do you think Jamie feels? Claire? How do you feel?
Jamie is mourning for Murtagh who had been like a father to him. This is first time Jamie can really talk about it freely with someone who understands him. This also gave Claire a chance to grieve for Murtagh as well. Just talking gave Jamie and Claire to comfort each other.

7. What do you think of Ishmael? Do you believe his story?
It was a very plausible story. I believed him, but there is more to him that he lets on.

8. Claire recognizes Ishmael's voice as the same as Joe Abernathy. Do you think that Ishmael could be an ancestor of Joe Abernathy?
Absolutely. Especially when Claire figures out that Ishmael was a slave on the Abernathy plantation. It was common practice for slave to take the surname of their owners.

9. What did you think of Claire assisting Graham Menzies to commit suicide? Was this in character for her?
Claire did what she thought was best for her patient. To do anything else would have been out of character. She was at Culloden when she watched Rupert die. She also provided poison to Collum for him to kill himself rather than suffer a slow painful death. She had watched too many people die to make someone suffer.

10. Why do you think Ishmael wanted to take Temeraire with him?
They may have been from the same African tribe. Ishmael felt the need to take care of Temeraire.

11. What did you think happened to Miss Campbell when you read that she was missing?
I assumed that she had wandered off.

12. John seems even more shocked to see Claire than he is to see Jamie. Why do you think that is?
He knew Jamie was alive and very resourceful. However, like most people, he was under the impression Claire had died 20 years ago. Now, not only is she alive and well, but he had met her on the Porpoise, and didn't know who she was.

13. Do you think Mr. Willoughby killed Mina Alcott? If not, who do you think did?
I think The Fiend in now in Jamaica, but I am not convinced it is Mr. Willoughby.

14. Why do you think Lord John showed Claire Willie's portrait and told her in such detail about Jamie and Geneva?
He was extremely jealous of Claire, because Jamie loved her and not him. He has always been in love with Jamie since Ardmuir. He probably wanted to try to drive Claire away, and thought the best way to do it would be to make her think he had been in love with someone else. He also wanted to make sure she knew he had a part of Jamie in his son.

15. Gellie ... discuss her reappearance.
It was too simple for her to die at Craigsmuir. She had a more important role to play.

16. What do you think Gellie hoped to accomplish by returning to her own time? How could she have hoped to cope with modern times again?
I don't think she planned to stay in modern times. She wanted another chance to change history. She failed to put Prince Charlie on the throne, and she wanted another try at making her mark on what she thought should happen.

17. What do you think of Gellie's assertion that she and Claire are witches? Why do you think they are able to go through the stones?
Gellie is definitely insane. I am not sure about being witches, but there is something unique to them that allows them to travel through time.

18. Gellie mentioned she had met one other time traveler. Who do you think it was?
Perhaps Raymond?

19. How do you think Mr. Willoughby happened to be at Rose Hall?
He was following the person he thought was The Fiend.

20. Did you suspect that Rev. Campbell was The Fiend?
He was definitely odd, but I was surprised to find this out. Apparently he thought he had to destroy "bad" women in order to save their souls. Very twisted thinking.

21. How did you feel about Mr. Willoughby's confession that he betrayed Jamie at Arbroath and why he did it?
A first, I thought it was awful, after all Jamie had done to take care of him, but in Mr. Willoughby's Oriental thinking, he had been shamed, and it was Jamie's fault.

22. Ishmael and his men save Claire from the crocodile. How did you feel about Miss Campbell's role in the ceremony?
Very creepy.

23. Why do you think Gellie chose Ian for her plan?
His relationship to Jamie and Claire put him in the family line she wanted. She had found the prophecy about the lineage ruling, and thought she needed blood from that lineage.

24. Claire is terrified by the pull of the cave. Do you think Jamie would be able to save her from passing through the stones again?
Claire knew she could not survive another trip through the stones, and she could not face losing Jamie again. Apparently having someone to focus on was an important part of the stones. Focusing on Jamie was the only way Claire could stay where she was and not get pulled in. Jamie couldn't do anything, only Claire.

25. Do you think Gellie is finally dead?
Yes. She is the skeleton brought to Joe Abernathy's office. She was killed, and by Claire.

26. Do you think Ishmael and Miss Campbell survived the blasting of the Bruja? If they did, why?
Yes. I think Joe is Ishmael's descendent, maybe Miss Campbell's as well.

27. What did you think of the pinnace surviving the hurricane and the man o' war sinking?
It was awful to read about all those men drowning. The fact that the pinnace was smaller and lighter was the only reason it did not sink.

28. Do you think Jamie is over his seasickness?
Probably not, but the storm and fighting for survival gave him no time to dwell on it.

29. Jamie and Claire are in America. What do you think is going to happen now?
Jamie did not want to go to America, but this is probably the best place for them to start over, since the British will not be looking for him.

 

[Gertie Kindle]

"World's Unknown"
Chapters 53-63

1. Do you think it was in character for Claire to attack the auctioneer at the slave market? Do you think it would have happened if Claire had actually been born in the 18th Century?
It was definitely Claire's style. She could not bear to see anyone mistreated. If Claire had actually been born in the 18th century, I am not sure if she would have attacked the auctioneer, but I think she would have been an early abolitionist.

Yes, I think you've got that right. I don't think Claire would have been comfortable, or Jamie for that matter, with owning slaves or indentured servants.

3. Do you think the Bruja attacked the Artemis deliberately? If so, why?
The Bruja was a pirate ship and they would attack any merchant vessel, so, yes, I think it was deliberate.

I think it was deliberate, too, but I think Gellie sent the Bruja after Jamie and Claire.

9. What did you think of Claire assisting Graham Menzies to commit suicide? Was this in character for her?
Claire did what she thought was best for her patient. To do anything else would have been out of character. She was at Culloden when she watched Rupert die. She also provided poison to Collum for him to kill himself rather than suffer a slow painful death. She had watched too many people die to make someone suffer.

Claire is all about saving people, which I found this out of character. Now that I've read your answer, I can see why she did what she did.

16. What do you think Gellie hoped to accomplish by returning to her own time? How could she have hoped to cope with modern times again?
I don't think she planned to stay in modern times. She wanted another chance to change history. She failed to put Prince Charlie on the throne, and she wanted another try at making her mark on what she thought should happen.

I'm not sure about that. She wanted who she thought was Lovat's last descendant. Do you think she would have gone back if she knew about Willie? He would have served her purpose even better.

18. Gellie mentioned she had met one other time traveler. Who do you think it was?
Perhaps Raymond?

I think so, too. She was in Paris and would have met him.

19. How do you think Mr. Willoughby happened to be at Rose Hall?
He was following the person he thought was The Fiend.

I thought so, too.

20. Did you suspect that Rev. Campbell was The Fiend?
He was definitely odd, but I was surprised to find this out. Apparently he thought he had to destroy "bad" women in order to save their souls. Very twisted thinking.

I knew he was the Fiend. I was so happy that at least I figured out one thing.

23. Why do you think Gellie chose Ian for her plan?
His relationship to Jamie and Claire put him in the family line she wanted. She had found the prophecy about the lineage ruling, and thought she needed blood from that lineage.

I also thought she needed that bloodline to reach Bree; bring her to the right time and place.

26. Do you think Ishmael and Miss Campbell survived the blasting of the Bruja? If they did, why?
Yes. I think Joe is Ishmael's descendent, maybe Miss Campbell's as well.

Yes, I think Ishmael and Miss Campbell are Joe's great, great, great whatevers.

28. Do you think Jamie is over his seasickness?
Probably not, but the storm and fighting for survival gave him no time to dwell on it.

Mind over matter seems to have finally worked.

29. Jamie and Claire are in America. What do you think is going to happen now?
Jamie did not want to go to America, but this is probably the best place for them to start over, since the British will not be looking for him.

I agree. He can probably get a land grant. Maybe they can build their own Lallybroch.

 

[tlshaw]

I forgot about Willie. It would have made it easier for Gellie. It is a good thing only 3 people knew for sure about Jamie having a son. Jamie, Lord John and Claire. I am sure Gellie would have preferred a male heir. But if that was the case, wouldn't Young Ian have served as well? He was after all a male descendant in the same generation as Willie and both parents were Scottish.

 

[Gertie Kindle]

I forgot about Willie. It would have made it easier for Gellie. It is a good thing only 3 people knew for sure about Jamie having a son. Jamie, Lord John and Claire. I am sure Gellie would have preferred a male heir. But if that was the case, wouldn't Young Ian have served as well? He was after all a male descendant in the same generation as Willie and both parents were Scottish.

Lovat's line died out in 1880, which means the Murrays, too, I'm guessing. In any case, I think Gellie would prefer a descendant from the male line (Jamie) rather than the female line (Ian).

In the Wars of the Roses, Henry Tudor denied Edmund's (Edward III and Phillipa's son) descendants as having any right to the throne as they came from the female line. Of course, so did he, but he conveniently ignored that.

 

[danfan]

Part 9--Voyager

"World's Unknown"
Chapters 53-63

1. Do you think it was in character for Claire to attack the auctioneer at the slave market? Do you think it would have happened if Claire had actually been born in the 18th Century?
Very in character. Being from a time period when we know and feel such things as slavery to be so abhorrent, it would be difficult for anyone, I think, to stand by and watch something like that without speaking out. If she'd been born and raised in that time, I still can't imagine she'd be comfortable with it but maybe not so outspoken.

2. How did you feel when Jamie went into the slaves funeral pyre looking for Ian? Did you think Ian might be there?

That was horrible & sickening. I didn't know if Ian would be there or not but was so hoping for not.

3. Do you think the Bruja attacked the Artemis deliberately? If so, why?
I think it was very deliberate and I wondered ever since Ian's disappearance if they knew about Jamie, and later about the Artemis.

8. Claire recognizes Ishmael's voice as the same as Joe Abernathy. Do you think that Ishmael could be an ancestor of Joe Abernathy?
Yes, I thought that was very possible.

9. What did you think of Claire assisting Graham Menzies to commit suicide? Was this in character for her?
I think it was in character; I don't think she could stand by and watch someone suffer a slow painful death. Sad situation.

10. Why do you think Ishmael wanted to take Temeraire with him?
Same tribe or from the same plantation most likely.

11. What did you think happened to Miss Campbell when you read that she was missing?
Had no idea. I was thinking by then that her brother was The Fiend, so not likely a victim of him.

12. John seems even more shocked to see Claire than he is to see Jamie. Why do you think that is?
Jamie's appearance might have been a surprise but he thought Claire was dead so he'd never expect that.

13. Do you think Mr. Willoughby killed Mina Alcott? If not, who do you think did?
No, I thought it was the Reverend.

14. Why do you think Lord John showed Claire Willie's portrait and told her in such detail about Jamie and Geneva?
Perhaps jealous of the life they have, wanting Claire to know that Jamie had something she wasn't part of. But I don't think he necessarily wanted to drive her away as much as let her know what a good friend he is to Jamie.

15. Gellie ... discuss her reappearance.
Ugh! What a completely insane woman!

16. What do you think Gellie hoped to accomplish by returning to her own time? How could she have hoped to cope with modern times again?
I think she had every intention of returning to the past to try again to help Charles Stuart. Maybe she thought she could keep re-doing it until she got it right.

17. What do you think of Gellie's assertion that she and Claire are witches? Why do you think they are able to go through the stones?
I don't think they are witches and I am always mad when someone thinks that of Claire. Geillie's crazy, no doubt, and she'd like to think she was a witch.

18. Gellie mentioned she had met one other time traveler. Who do you think it was?
Monsieur Raymond, perhaps??

19. How do you think Mr. Willoughby happened to be at Rose Hall?
Following Campbell.

20. Did you suspect that Rev. Campbell was The Fiend?
Yes, and for once I was right!!

21. How did you feel about Mr. Willoughby's confession that he betrayed Jamie at Arbroath and why he did it?
Horrible. I had sympathized with him for a while, but I lost a lot of that feeling. I understood some of it, but not all of his bitterness & certainly not the betrayal.

22. Ishmael and his men save Claire from the crocodile. How did you feel about Miss Campbell's role in the ceremony?
That was all a bit weird and creep!

24. Claire is terrified by the pull of the cave. Do you think Jamie would be able to save her from passing through the stones again?
Maybe but it wasn't worth the risk!

25. Do you think Gellie is finally dead?
She'd better be!!

27. What did you think of the pinnace surviving the hurricane and the man o' war sinking?
A terrifying ordeal; but not unlikely since the man o' war was so big that it couldn't possibly manage such wreckage and survive.

28. Do you think Jamie is over his seasickness?
Probably not.

29. Jamie and Claire are in America. What do you think is going to happen now?
All I could think was why go there when Claire knows the Revolution is coming? Why not pick a nice quiet place somewhere and live happily ever after?

 

[Toby]

    Oh sh..! I wrote a whole bunch of stuff & something happened & I lost it...  
    Okay, now to make a shortened version. M Campbell - I thought that she was the skeleton in the cave. Thought the group of slaves were going to sacrifice her. Surprise, it's Gellie, thank God. M. Campbell's a medium.
    Forgot about the Fiend situation. Mr. Campbell was a man that gave me the creeps. I thought that this guy has mental problems.
    Mr. Willouwby sp? - I hated his betrayal of Jamie. He has alot of anger issues, because people treat him like shit. Can't blame him. He feels invisible, like he's dead. He can't go back to his own people & culture in China. Probably feels that people should respect him because he is educated & learned in Eastern Medicine. Also, he's alcoholic as far as I am concern.
    Please help - confused about Gellie's role in going back to Bree. What did Gellie expect to do

 

[1131]

Chapters 53-63

1. Do you think it was in character for Claire to attack the auctioneer at the slave market?
Yes, Claire cares about other people and she acts without thinking
Do you think it would have happened if Claire had actually been born in the 18th Century? Oh man, Claire would have had a hard upbringing. She was born independent and impulsive.

2. How did you feel when Jamie went into the slaves funeral pyre looking for Ian? Did you think Ian might be there?
That was sad and disturbing. Yeah, he might have found Ian there which was bad enough, but also that bodies were there to begin with and that they were disposed of in such a cavalier way.
During this scene I was thinking "DG wouldn't kill Ian, would she?

3. Do you think the Bruja attacked the Artemis deliberately? If so, why? I thought it was deliberate. Someone didn't want Jamie and Claire to figure out what was going on.

4. In reminiscing about Culloden and Murtagh, how do you think Jamie feels? Claire? How do you feel?
It helped them mourn Mrutagh. I miss Murtagh.

7. What do you think of Ishmael? Do you believe his story?
I believe him but he is holding back. He obviously has some kind of power.

8. Claire recognizes Ishmael's voice as the same as Joe Abernathy. Do you think that Ishmael could be an ancestor of Joe Abernathy?
Yes

9. What did you think of Claire assisting Graham Menzies to commit suicide? Was this in character for her?
Claire has both helped someone die and watched someone else help someone die. I think her earlier experience with Column and at Colloden helped her make that difficult decision.

10. Why do you think Ishmael wanted to take Temeraire with him?
Not a clue. Temeraire obviously recognized something in what Ishmael said. There didn't seem to be any recognition before that. Guessing Ishmael needed him for something or that he wants to free as many slaves as possible.

11. What did you think happened to Miss Campbell when you read that she was missing?
That she wandered off.

12. John seems even more shocked to see Claire than he is to see Jamie. Why do you think that is?
He was told that Claire was gone and probably assumed she was dead. I wonder how much John looked at Claire's face when Jamie tricked him that night in the woods.

13. Do you think Mr. Willoughby killed Mina Alcott? If not, who do you think did?
No, he is a strange little man but I don't think he kills women. I was betting on (hoping it was) the Reverend.

14. Why do you think Lord John showed Claire Willie's portrait and told her in such detail about Jamie and Geneva?
A chance for him to show Claire what he and Jamie share a child as well.

15. Gellie ... discuss her reappearance. Arghhhhhh! And I suppose Black Jack is in the next room with his head on the mantle so he can watch his back because Dougal is sitting in the chair next to him drinking Colum's wine. But it's OK, Murtagh's over by the wall keeping an eye on everybody. Shhh, don't tell anyone he's there.

16. What do you think Gellie hoped to accomplish by returning to her own time?
I could not figure this one out except that it has to do with Brianna. I seemed like she was going to use Brianna to somehow keep Scotland from being part of Britain?
How could she have hoped to cope with modern times again? I assume she would have gone back to 1988. She would have adjusted eventually but she would have had some trouble doing it, things changed a lot in the 80's. I like to think she would have enjoyed MTV so much she would have sat there staring at it and never leave her room. Remember when MTV actually had videos?

17. What do you think of Gellie's assertion that she and Claire are witches?
Gellie crazy!
Why do you think they are able to go through the stones? DNA, somewhere way back they are related and they both carry the special stone opening gene

18. Gellie mentioned she had met one other time traveler. Who do you think it was? Raymond seems the obvious choice.

19. How do you think Mr. Willoughby happened to be at Rose Hall? He is following Jamie and Claire? It's a big house with food and everything? He saw a woman's foot? Or maybe he was following the murderer!

20. Did you suspect that Rev. Campbell was The Fiend?
Yes, or was it hope?

21. How did you feel about Mr. Willoughby's confession that he betrayed Jamie at Arbroath and why he did it?
Mr Willoughby is an awfully angry man. How do you stay with someone and help them and also betray them? This explains why he killed the custom's agent.

22. Ishmael and his men save Claire from the crocodile. How did you feel about Miss Campbell's role in the ceremony? That was interesting. I like how DG takes thinks so many people scoff at (the Loch Ness Monster for instance - who, by the way, is real) and makes them realistic part of the story.

23. Why do you think Gellie chose Ian for her plan?
She needed someone from Lord Lovet's line. But why? I assumed it was to anchor her to a specific time. Any other ideas?

24. Claire is terrified by the pull of the cave. Do you think Jamie would be able to save her from passing through the stones again?
I think he did by shielding her and keeping her attention away from the stones and giving her an anchor.

25. Do you think Gellie is finally dead?
I hope so. She really is a witch, of another sort. If those were her bones Claire and Joe saw then Claire really did kill her.

26. Do you think Ishmael and Miss Campbell survived the blasting of the Bruja?
Yes. Nothing was said about Ishmael having children already. If Joe Abernathy is really his descendent, he would have to have survived.

27. What did you think of the pinnace surviving the hurricane and the man o' war sinking?
Strange things happen with nature involved. One wave striking the wrong place and it's over. It was sad that those people that Claire knew and tried to help were all killed.

28. Do you think Jamie is over his seasickness?
It seems awful convenient if he is. Maybe he was distracted enough that he didn't dwell on it

29. Jamie and Claire are in America. What do you think is going to happen now?
There is so much to choose from. They will probably settle down and then get pulled right back into EVERYTHING. Maybe that little thing called the American Revolution will pop up in their lives.

 

[1131]

1. Do you think it was in character for Claire to attack the auctioneer at the slave market? Do you think it would have happened if Claire had actually been born in the 18th Century?
Very in character. Being from a time period when we know and feel such things as slavery to be so abhorrent, it would be difficult for anyone, I think, to stand by and watch something like that without speaking out. If she'd been born and raised in that time, I still can't imagine she'd be comfortable with it but maybe not so outspoken.

I like to think that we all would have done something but this illustrates how difficult that would be. I hope that I wouldn't just stand by. Maybe one person can't do a lot but a little can make a big difference.

3. Do you think the Bruja attacked the Artemis deliberately? If so, why?
I think it was very deliberate and I wondered ever since Ian's disappearance if they knew about Jamie, and later about the Artemis.

I didn't think they new about the Artemis until they got to Jamaica. Even if there were spies in France, they couldn't have gotten the word to anyone faster than Jamie and Claire got to Jamaica. It did seem that Geilie knew all about them being there when they showed up. I might be reading too much into it though, she could easily have made the assumption they would show up because they would obviously come after Ian.

10. Why do you think Ishmael wanted to take Temeraire with him?
Same tribe or from the same plantation most likely.

I didn't think they knew each other by Temeraire's reaction when Ishmael spoke to him. "He (Ishmael) said something, in a strange tongue full of liquid vowels and syllables that repeated like a drumbeat. Tremeraire let out a gasp, fell to his knees, and pressed his forehead to the deck at Ishmael's feet".

[
15. Gellie ... discuss her reappearance.
Ugh! What a completely insane woman!

Yes, Geilie crazy

29. Jamie and Claire are in America. What do you think is going to happen now?
All I could think was why go there when Claire knows the Revolution is coming? Why not pick a nice quiet place somewhere and live happily ever after?

Jamie and Claire, happily ever after? is that even possible?

 

[danfan]

Oh sh..! I wrote a whole bunch of stuff & something happened & I lost it...
Okay, now to make a shortened version. M Campbell - I thought that she was the skeleton in the cave. Thought the group of slaves were going to sacrifice her. Surprise, it's Gellie, thank God. M. Campbell's a medium.
Forgot about the Fiend situation. Mr. Campbell was a man that gave me the creeps. I thought that this guy has mental problems.
Mr. Willouwby sp? - I hated his betrayal of Jamie. He has alot of anger issues, because people treat him like sh**. Can't blame him. He feels invisible, like he's dead. He can't go back to his own people & culture in China. Probably feels that people should respect him because he is educated & learned in Eastern Medicine. Also, he's alcoholic as far as I am concern.
Please help - confused about Gellie's role in going back to Bree. What did Gellie expect to do

I'll have to re-read but from what Campbell said (I think), there was some kind of prophecy that an heir of Jamie's had something to do with taking back the throne. Ugh, I can't remember and I am at work so can't look it up. Until she found the photos of Brianna, she didn't think he had any children, so now she had something to grasp onto; remember Campbell had been working on the family tree? Can anyone else remember that bit?

 

[tlshaw]

I'll have to re-read but from what Campbell said (I think), there was some kind of prophecy that an heir of Jamie's had something to do with taking back the throne. Ugh, I can't remember and I am at work so can't look it up. Until she found the photos of Brianna, she didn't think he had any children, so now she had something to grasp onto; remember Campbell had been working on the family tree? Can anyone else remember that bit?

You're right. She wanted to use Bree as the last of the Lovat line to take back the Scottish throne. Since the line had died out around 1880, there was no question that Bree would be the last, living in the 1960's. Using the picture and the blood from a relative were to help her focus on reaching Bree.

 

[danfan]

You're right. She wanted to use Bree as the last of the Lovat line to take back the Scottish throne. Since the line had died out around 1880, there was no question that Bree would be the last, living in the 1960's. Using the picture and the blood from a relative were to help her focus on reaching Bree.

Thanks! I knew it was something like that!

 

[Gertie Kindle]

You're right. She wanted to use Bree as the last of the Lovat line to take back the Scottish throne. Since the line had died out around 1880, there was no question that Bree would be the last, living in the 1960's. Using the picture and the blood from a relative were to help her focus on reaching Bree.

I'm wondering just how she was going to prove that Bree was descended from Lovat. And didn't the original prophecy get ruined with water when the Rev. was in Rose Hall? Shouldn't Gellie have taken it with her when she went back? Without the prophecy and proof of Bree's ancestry, how would she have accomplished her purpose?

Of course, she's totally whacko, but she still seemed capable of planning.

 

[tlshaw]

I'm wondering just how she was going to prove that Bree was descended from Lovat. And didn't the original prophecy get ruined with water when the Rev. was in Rose Hall? Shouldn't Gellie have taken it with her when she went back? Without the prophecy and proof of Bree's ancestry, how would she have accomplished her purpose?

Of course, she's totally whacko, but she still seemed capable of planning.

Good points, but at what point would she be going back to the past after she had Bree? Wherever she planned to go, maybe she thought she would have whatever information she needed.

 

[Gertie Kindle]

Good points, but at what point would she be going back to the past after she had Bree? Wherever she planned to go, maybe she thought she would have whatever information she needed.

I don't think she was going back to the past with Bree. Gellie was pretty scared of going through the stones again, and Claire told her that it got worse every time. She also couldn't be sure that Bree could travel through the stones.

Maybe Gellie intended to use Bree as a rallying point. Her intro to Bree would be to tell her about seeing Jamie and Claire together in the past; let her know that Claire was alive and had found Jamie.

 

[Toby]

    The thing is, if Gellie went back to get Bree, both Bree & Roger saw her before at the stones. They know that she is a killer. At some point, either 1 would recognise her. Then what? Was Geille going to announce to the world that Bree should be the Queen/Ruler/Whatever of Scotland? Oh well. Just over analizing this. Anyway, I'm so  I wonderhappy that she is dead. She is 1 sick puppy. Oh yeah, & a rapist. I imagine those other boys that didn't come back were killed as well, by her or her dufuss bodyguard zombee.
    Someone wondered by Gellie needed Ian. Besides raping him, she took him to the cave because she needed his blood. Sort of like a human sacrifice, like she killed her husband. It could also be that she wanted Jamie's nephew's blood. Can't quite remember.
    I wanted to kill Geille when she was touching Bree's pic's. I think I would have killed her right there on the spot. Then, to find 1 missing. Ohhh....kill her!!! I wonder where Jamie found the photo?

   

 

[danfan]

The thing is, if Gellie went back to get Bree, both Bree & Roger saw her before at the stones. They know that she is a killer. At some point, either 1 would recognise her. Then what? Was Geille going to announce to the world that Bree should be the Queen/Ruler/Whatever of Scotland? Oh well. Just over analizing this. Anyway, I'm so I wonderhappy that she is dead. She is 1 sick puppy. Oh yeah, & a rapist. I imagine those other boys that didn't come back were killed as well, by her or her dufuss bodyguard zombee.
Someone wondered by Gellie needed Ian. Besides raping him, she took him to the cave because she needed his blood. Sort of like a human sacrifice, like she killed her husband. It could also be that she wanted Jamie's nephew's blood. Can't quite remember.
I wanted to kill Geille when she was touching Bree's pic's. I think I would have killed her right there on the spot. Then, to find 1 missing. Ohhh....kill her!!! I wonder where Jamie found the photo?

I hated her too then.

Claire found the photo upstairs, didn't she? It was partially burned, IIRC, in some weird ritual. Makes me so mad that people keep thinking Claire is a witch when we read about a true crazy like Geillie!

I hadn't even thought that she might try to do something with Bree back in the future. I had thought she'd drag her back through time, not caring about the effects of the stones. I mean, she had worked very hard to get the right gemstones and all that. And certainly proving Bree's ancestry in the 1960s would be far more difficult than in the 18th century with Jamie alive. Interesting to think about.

 

[Toby]

    That's interesting. Hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the reminder on who found the burnt photo of Bree.

 

[1131]

I know I'm a little late on this but I am very confused about what Geilie was trying to accomplish. You have all made some very good points but I'm still confused. I guess I'll have to remain so and just have to accept that this is something my little brain will never be able to understand.

I'll have to reread but from what Campbell said (I think), there was some kind of prophecy that an heir of Jamie's had something to do with taking back the throne. Ugh, I can't remember and I am at work so can't look it up. Until she found the photos of Brianna, she didn't think he had any children, so now she had something to grasp onto; remember Campbell had been working on the family tree? Can anyone else remember that bit?

I wasn't able to find all the prophecy stuff again or was not able to make the connection between it and what happened in the cave...if there is a connection. I never did connect it to Bree but y'all are probably right that it did have something to do with her.

I hadn't even thought that she might try to do something with Bree back in the future. I had thought she'd drag her back through time, not caring about the effects of the stones. I mean, she had worked very hard to get the right gemstones and all that. And certainly proving Bree's ancestry in the 1960s would be far more difficult than in the 18th century with Jamie alive. Interesting to think about.

I don't think she was going back to the past with Bree. Gellie was pretty scared of going through the stones again, and Claire told her that it got worse every time. She also couldn't be sure that Bree could travel through the stones.

Maybe Gellie intended to use Bree as a rallying point. Her intro to Bree would be to tell her about seeing Jamie and Claire together in the past; let her know that Claire was alive and had found Jamie.

I also thought Geilie was going to try to bring Bree back to the past, to a time when she could have changed the course of the war. I can't figure out how she would be able to make use of her in the present. Was there a chance that Geilie saw the affect the stones had on Bree when they tried to stop her from going back in 1968 so she knew that Bree could time travel? Or maybe she assumed that because Claire had the time travel gene that Bree would have it too?