[Lana Amore]

This is a very long thread which I haven't read entirely yet, so maybe it's been mentioned. Readers are stating that the titles are being deleted from their Kindles, so it's not just banning books from sale.

But they BOUGHT them already! Is that legal? Is it possible? (Or are they just taking them out of lending libraries?)

 

[WordSaladTongs]

Readers are stating that the titles are being deleted from their Kindles, so it's not just banning books from sale.

If this is true (not doubting you, but you know how things sometimes get exaggerated or misunderstood during times like this) it COULD be the thing that finally motivates readers to complain which could ACTUALLY make a difference.

 

[Jash]

This is a very long thread which I haven't read entirely yet, so maybe it's been mentioned. Readers are stating that the titles are being deleted from their Kindles, so it's not just banning books from sale.

Whose readers are stating it where? This is a pretty big deal so any more information you have would be appreciated.

 

[Ann in Arlington]

This is a very long thread which I haven't read entirely yet, so maybe it's been mentioned. Readers are stating that the titles are being deleted from their Kindles, so it's not just banning books from sale.

I would request some concrete evidence of that. Given the flap over 1984 in the first year or so of the Kindle boom, I would be EXTREMELY surprised if that were to happen. So readers may be 'stating it' but I'm not convinced by that.

For those who came in late, an ebook version of 1984 was uploaded for sale to Amazon. People bought it. It was cheap. When Amazon learned that the person who'd offered it for sale did not have the rights to do so they took DOWN the book. They also removed it from the account of everyone who'd purchased it -- and gave them a credit back somewhat in excess of the original cost. AND, they remotely removed it from kindles that it had been loaded onto wirelessly. That Last bit -- especially considering the title in question -- got a lot of attention! Amazon listened to its customers then and posted a public apology acknowledging that they'd gone too far and promising that they'd not do that again.

There were later instances of books being loaded by folks who did not have the rights to do so. I had gotten a couple of them. In both cases, I got email explaining that they were not legitimate offerings and advising that my account would be credited for the purchase price and the book would be removed. And I was asked to remove them from any Kindle they might be on. But they did NOT remove them automatically.

 

[JuliMonroe]

I just popped onto Mobile Reads to see if anyone was mentioning books being removed from ereaders. Nothing. Folks there are usually on stuff like that quickly. I'm also doubting the removing books thing. But I'll keep poking around.

 

[Jash]

I just popped onto Mobile Reads to see if anyone was mentioning books being removed from ereaders. Nothing. Folks there are usually on stuff like that quickly. I'm also doubting the removing books thing. But I'll keep poking around.

I wonder if it's due to title/cover changes? People are updating books that have been changed to avoid being blocked and suddenly the title and/or cover they expect to see isn't there.

 

[Lydniz]

Here's a nice 'I don't believe in censorship (but actually I do)' article for you.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/depraved-ebooks-pornography-censorship-booksellers

 

[Sara Fawkes]

I'm keeping an eye on this whole situation. I have many, many friends whose works are being affected - Kobo has removed entire libraries, some of which barely had any sex in them at all, and Amazon seems to want to clear the slate too. But if they start removing books I've already bought as some kind of moral policing, that's crossing the line even if they "promise" a refund.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

That brings up an interesting question that makes this situation even more complex.

When a consumer buys a book, Amazon keeps a version of that book on their servers forever. The author may pull the book off Amazon, but Amazon keeps the book on their servers for the benefit of consumers who have purchased it. This is what allows us to restore our libraries after Aunt Harriet has backed up over our Kindles, or when we buy a new iPad and want to read our Amazon purchases..

It would be interesting to see if a consumer can still download a title he purchased even after it has been removed from sales pages in the last few days.

 

[JPGrider]

I'm not sure if I posted on this thread already. If I did. I'm sorry. I know I posted it on a different thread. But Amazon is pulling books that aren't even erotica. Mine is a young adult with a picture of a girl on it (her shoulder is bare). My cover was found in violation. Now I can't sell my book. I tried to get in but my book has been in review. It stinks. I can't even change the cover if I wanted to and they haven't responded to me yet. It's killing me. The cover is the one in my signature. The blonde girl. So is Amazon really pulling ANYTHING they deem unfit?

 

[JPGrider]

Fig-leafed?

 

[MaxCherish]

All our Writing Life Kobo books have been pulled as best as I can tell. They show up as Published on the eBooks tab, but there are none for sale on the Dashboard tab. A quick search only turns up the free ebook we published at Smashwords that was delivered to Kobo.

All of our Amazon titles seem to be ok for the time being. We'll see if that holds as the week goes forward. I've got my folks looking at what it would take to re-release all our titles on Smashwords if that turns out to the be the only ebook marketplace willing to stand its ground.

With respect to those clinging to the fearmongering The Kernel started with, I think it's worth pointing out some basic facts.

• This is selective censorship at work targeting self-pub'd and indie pub'd books. There is no sign of cleansing shelves of abusive stories like "Fifty Shades of Grey" or John Carpenter horror novels.
• The initial complaint that a "UK search for 'daddy' brought up pornography on WH Smith's website" is totally valid. To comply with British law, when dealing with an anonymous user, WH Smith should have filtered and excluded all search results from categories including erotica, romance, medicine, history, movies, television, science fiction, and horror. Yes, the state of British censorship is that broad. While I have problems with the idea of plunking a 5 year old down and asking him to run search queries for me, WH Smith is at fault for not complying with the law. WH Smith should have implemented a login and age verification requirement before presenting any potential adult content to a user.
• The content being removed by Amazon, Kobo, WH Smith, and others is both legal and well understood content. It might not be stuff you or I like to read, but that doesn't mean it's illegal. Furthermore, to truly comply consistently with porn as The Kernel defines it, we'd need to take down the usual classics like "Lolita," anything by Charles Dickens, anything by Mark Twain, and pretty much the entire shapeshifter and horror genres. You won't see that happen because that would crush profits at traditional publishers as well as retailers.

Frankly, I'm extremely disappointed in Kobo. This was a clear opportunity for them to support the Writing Life platform, clarify that by receiving a feed from Kobo for publications that it was the responsibility of WH Smith to implement appropriate search controls to meet local laws, and clarify compliance for those titles that truly do step outside the boundaries.

Kobo didn't even take the time to cave to demands. It's very clear that they immediately supported WH Smith's assertion that indie and self pub'd authors were to blame, and then began obliterating the Writing Life catalog in a haphazard and ineffective manner.

For all the people who told me that getting our titles on Kobo was good for the diversity of the marketplace, I will always point at this event as a watershed moment when Kobo proved themselves unworthy of author support. For all of my Canadian friends who have long told me how much Amazon hates them and how Kobo has been their preferred vendor, I have already pointed to what is happening and they are in shock.

~Max~
Cherish Desire Erotica

 

[swolf]

Here's an example of the crap we're going through.

When they block a book, they send you an email letting you know where the problem is: Title, description, cover image, and/or Content.

Here's one I got:

Detention Seduction (ASIN: B00EXVP15Q) - Title, Description, Cover Image

And here's the cover they're having a problem with:

I asked around, and it seems that some of the reviewers are including the cover as a problem if there's a problem with a title, since the title is on the cover. However, my previous batch (in a different email) listed problems with titles but none of them listed a problem with the cover.

So, now,we have to figure out whether they actually do have a problem with the cover image, or we just ran into a reviewer who is confused. Is Jeanne around? I need a mentalist.

Fun times.

 

[Lana Amore]

Oh, I'll never post to Kobo again, no matter what genre I write (and yes, erotica writers can write other things, shocking I know)  Any distributor can have Trad Pubs, exclusive content is where it's at and that's where self-pub comes in.  

Sorry Kobo, you'll always just be a pale and money-losing imitation of Amazon from this day on, minus any content that might have set you apart.

 

[31842]

• The initial complaint that a "UK search for 'daddy' brought up pornography on WH Smith's website" is totally valid. To comply with British law, when dealing with an anonymous user, WH Smith should have filtered and excluded all search results from categories including erotica, romance, medicine, history, movies, television, science fiction, and horror. Yes, the state of British censorship is that broad. While I have problems with the idea of plunking a 5 year old down and asking him to run search queries for me, WH Smith is at fault for not complying with the law. WH Smith should have implemented a login and age verification requirement before presenting any potential adult content to a user.

I feel like herein lies the crux of the "everyone simmer down" matter. It sucks that there has been a wholesale freeze on indie books, BUT this is a legal issue which falls on the head of WH Smith and I can't fault them for shutting everything down. I have full confidence they will sort it out, but I think it is just going to take some time. From a legal perspective, broad decisive action looks much better in the courts if they have to defend themselves. It will hold a whole lot more water than, "Well... we did some stopgap measures, but we didn't want to anger any of our self-publishers."

I was thinking this is a bit like being in a bar when suddenly it is raided for serving underage patrons. The bar is on the hook and no one is going to get another drink until everyone gets carded. A bunch of us are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. So, all we can do is get out our IDs and enjoy our water until the cops come and shine their flashlights on our wrinkles.

 

[Monique]

To those who are vowing never to darken Kobo's door again, aren't you reacting in the same knee-jerky way you're accusing them of doing?

It's frustrating not knowing what's going on, but before we all start our "I said, goodnight, sir!"s, maybe it would be best to find out what's happened and what we can expect moving forward.

 

[swolf]

BUT this is a legal issue which falls on the head of WH Smith and I can't fault them for shutting everything down

I can. What, did they wake up the other day and suddenly realize they were selling porn?

They knew it was there, and they were making money off of it. Probably lots of money. Someone shined a light on them, and it's "Whoa, what's that?"

What a joke.

 

[cinisajoy]

Here's an example of the crap we're going through.

When they block a book, they send you an email letting you know where the problem is: Title, description, cover image, and/or Content.

Here's one I got:

Detention Seduction (ASIN: B00EXVP15Q) - Title, Description, Cover Image

And here's the cover they're having a problem with:

I asked around, and it seems that some of the reviewers are including the cover as a problem if there's a problem with a title, since the title is on the cover. However, my previous batch (in a different email) listed problems with titles but none of them listed a problem with the cover.

So, now,we have to figure out whether they actually do have a problem with the cover image, or we just ran into a reviewer who is confused. Is Jeanne around? I need a mentalist.

Fun times.

Since you asked, here goes.
Yes, your model is fully clothed. She does look a bit young.
With the title and the cover, I can see where a censor could hit it.
Erotic inlaws. + Detention seduction. + Looks like an underage model.=possible child p0rn.
Note I have no idea what the book is about but it looks like a girl got in trouble at school and will do anything to get out of detention.

 

[swolf]

Since you asked, here goes.
Yes, your model is fully clothed. She does look a bit young.
With the title and the cover, I can see where a censor could hit it.
Erotic inlaws. + Detention seduction. + Looks like an underage model.=possible child p0rn.
Note I have no idea what the book is about but it looks like a girl got in trouble at school and will do anything to get out of detention.

I think calling her underage is stretching it. She looks like she's in her 20's to me.

Here's the stock image page: http://www.123rf.com/photo_18200968_closeup-seriously-blonde-businesswoman-portrait-wearing-eyeglasses-standing-near-wall.html

It's titled "closeup seriously blonde businesswoman portrait wearing eyeglasses standing near wall"

And in the story, she's the teacher, not the student. I wasn't looking for a teenage girl for the cover.

 

[Andrew Ashling]

Here's an example of the crap we're going through.

When they block a book, they send you an email letting you know where the problem is: Title, description, cover image, and/or Content.

Here's one I got:

Detention Seduction (ASIN: B00EXVP15Q) - Title, Description, Cover Image

And here's the cover they're having a problem with:

I asked around, and it seems that some of the reviewers are including the cover as a problem if there's a problem with a title, since the title is on the cover. However, my previous batch (in a different email) listed problems with titles but none of them listed a problem with the cover.

So, now,we have to figure out whether they actually do have a problem with the cover image, or we just ran into a reviewer who is confused. Is Jeanne around? I need a mentalist.

Fun times.

They can't very well say, "Hey, write whatever you want as long as we can pretend to not know anything about it and collect the money." So, they have to be a bit cryptic for the sake of plausible deniability.

I haven't read the description, but the other two elements seem clear:

Title: Detention Seduction suggests an underage person being seduced.
Cover: Ditto (the title), and probably Erotic In-Laws, suggesting either pseudo-incest or in-law incest. (I think the picture is okay.)

YMMV