[ghostwriter80]

E-mails from Barnes and Noble are starting to go out regarding publisher accounts being suspended.

 

[KMatthew]

Can you expand on this? Do you mean self publishers or publishers like small press? What exactly does the email say?

Yeah. I would love to know more about this. I'm half tempted to go pull down all of my PI titles, just in case.

 

[swolf]

E-mails from Barnes and Noble are starting to go out regarding publisher accounts being suspended.

If this is true, they're a bunch of hypocrites. They're the only one of the major retailers that allows pure incest stories, and now they're going to suspend accounts because of it?

Unbelievable.

 

[ghostwriter80]

I have not been wrong yet. I'm working on getting a copy. Mean while here is my kobo account deletion email I just received. I found it greatly annoying. But it is their decision and I will abide by it.

***********

Hi,

When you signed up with Kobo Writing Life, you agreed to our Terms and Conditions.

The content you are uploading puts you in direct violation of these terms, specifically Section 5.1 (copied below):

5.1 You represent, warrant and covenant to Kobo that (i) you have the rights, power and privileges to execute, deliver and perform your obligations under these Terms and the execution, delivery and performance of these Terms have been duly authorized by Publisher; (ii) you have all necessary rights to make the grant and assignment of rights Publisher has made to Kobo under these Terms and its submission of the Works hereunder and the use of the Works in the eReading Service does not violate any obligation Publisher owes to any third party or infringe upon the intellectual property rights of any person, including the author of the Works; (iii) you will be solely responsible for obtaining and paying for any and all necessary clearances, rights and licenses for the Works to permit the exercise of the rights granted under these Terms without any further obligation by us, including any payments due to any other copyright holders, co-authors and/co-administrators; (iv) the Works do not and will not infringe upon any common law or statutory right in any other literary, dramatic or other material and no material in the Works violates any intellectual property rights or any other proprietary rights of any person, firm or corporation and the Works contain no libellous or unlawful material or instructions that may cause harm to any person, firm or corporation; (v) Publisher’s trademarks, trade names, logos, designs, and icons do not infringe upon or violate any trademark or other intellectual property right of any other person, firm or corporation; and (vi) there is no outstanding claim or litigation pending against or involving the title, ownership and/or copyright in the Works, or in any part of it, or in the rights which are covered by these Terms.

Your account is being terminated and all of your titles deleted and removed from sale, as per SECTION 3 of the agreement:

We may (i) terminate or suspend these Terms and your access to Kobo Writing Life at any time, provided that we will notify you promptly after such termination at the email address we have on file and (ii) temporarily remove or suspend any of your Works from sale at any time for any reason or no reason.

Due to your violation of our terms of service, I am afraid to say that you are not welcome to publish titles through Kobo Writing Life and we are not interested in continuing to do business with you.

Sincerely,
The Kobo Team

 

[SunHi Mistwalker]

I have not been wrong yet. I'm working on getting a copy. Mean while here is my kobo account deletion email I just received. I found it greatly annoying. But it is their decision and I will abide by it.

***********

Hi,

When you signed up with Kobo Writing Life, you agreed to our Terms and Conditions.

The content you are uploading puts you in direct violation of these terms, specifically Section 5.1 (copied below):

5.1 You represent, warrant and covenant to Kobo that (i) you have the rights, power and privileges to execute, deliver and perform your obligations under these Terms and the execution, delivery and performance of these Terms have been duly authorized by Publisher; (ii) you have all necessary rights to make the grant and assignment of rights Publisher has made to Kobo under these Terms and its submission of the Works hereunder and the use of the Works in the eReading Service does not violate any obligation Publisher owes to any third party or infringe upon the intellectual property rights of any person, including the author of the Works; (iii) you will be solely responsible for obtaining and paying for any and all necessary clearances, rights and licenses for the Works to permit the exercise of the rights granted under these Terms without any further obligation by us, including any payments due to any other copyright holders, co-authors and/co-administrators; (iv) the Works do not and will not infringe upon any common law or statutory right in any other literary, dramatic or other material and no material in the Works violates any intellectual property rights or any other proprietary rights of any person, firm or corporation and the Works contain no libellous or unlawful material or instructions that may cause harm to any person, firm or corporation; (v) Publisher's trademarks, trade names, logos, designs, and icons do not infringe upon or violate any trademark or other intellectual property right of any other person, firm or corporation; and (vi) there is no outstanding claim or litigation pending against or involving the title, ownership and/or copyright in the Works, or in any part of it, or in the rights which are covered by these Terms.

Your account is being terminated and all of your titles deleted and removed from sale, as per SECTION 3 of the agreement:

We may (i) terminate or suspend these Terms and your access to Kobo Writing Life at any time, provided that we will notify you promptly after such termination at the email address we have on file and (ii) temporarily remove or suspend any of your Works from sale at any time for any reason or no reason.

Due to your violation of our terms of service, I am afraid to say that you are not welcome to publish titles through Kobo Writing Life and we are not interested in continuing to do business with you.

Sincerely,
The Kobo Team

Uhm, this looks like the account was suspended because of copyright violations, not necessarily because the content was obscene.

 

[ghostwriter80]

I didn't violate their copyright guidelines. It's a content violation. That's literally what I received. Some one else will verify stuff soon enough I imagine.

 

[71089]

Uhm, this looks like the account was suspended because of copyright violations, not necessarily because the content was obscene.

It is probably this part, I think:

(iv) the Works do not and will not infringe upon any common law or statutory right in any other literary, dramatic or other material

 

[cinisajoy]

I have not been wrong yet. I'm working on getting a copy. Mean while here is my kobo account deletion email I just received. I found it greatly annoying. But it is their decision and I will abide by it.

***********

Hi,

When you signed up with Kobo Writing Life, you agreed to our Terms and Conditions.

The content you are uploading puts you in direct violation of these terms, specifically Section 5.1 (copied below):

5.1 You represent, warrant and covenant to Kobo that (i) you have the rights, power and privileges to execute, deliver and perform your obligations under these Terms and the execution, delivery and performance of these Terms have been duly authorized by Publisher; (ii) you have all necessary rights to make the grant and assignment of rights Publisher has made to Kobo under these Terms and its submission of the Works hereunder and the use of the Works in the eReading Service does not violate any obligation Publisher owes to any third party or infringe upon the intellectual property rights of any person, including the author of the Works; (iii) you will be solely responsible for obtaining and paying for any and all necessary clearances, rights and licenses for the Works to permit the exercise of the rights granted under these Terms without any further obligation by us, including any payments due to any other copyright holders, co-authors and/co-administrators; (iv) the Works do not and will not infringe upon any common law or statutory right in any other literary, dramatic or other material and no material in the Works violates any intellectual property rights or any other proprietary rights of any person, firm or corporation and the Works contain no libellous or unlawful material or instructions that may cause harm to any person, firm or corporation; (v) Publisher's trademarks, trade names, logos, designs, and icons do not infringe upon or violate any trademark or other intellectual property right of any other person, firm or corporation; and (vi) there is no outstanding claim or litigation pending against or involving the title, ownership and/or copyright in the Works, or in any part of it, or in the rights which are covered by these Terms.

Your account is being terminated and all of your titles deleted and removed from sale, as per SECTION 3 of the agreement:

We may (i) terminate or suspend these Terms and your access to Kobo Writing Life at any time, provided that we will notify you promptly after such termination at the email address we have on file and (ii) temporarily remove or suspend any of your Works from sale at any time for any reason or no reason.

Due to your violation of our terms of service, I am afraid to say that you are not welcome to publish titles through Kobo Writing Life and we are not interested in continuing to do business with you.

Sincerely,
The Kobo Team

I italicized the section and bolded the important words. It is probably they checked the laws and discovered that oh hey writing about underage sex is illegal. Some states also forbid sex between a school worker and student regardless of that student's age. So now what was the topic of your book?

 

[ghostwriter80]

It was mainly PI. Stepfamily in a variety of settings, BDSM, etc. Everyone was above 18 years old. So I am not sure what constitutes unlawful, since it is all fictional and involves fictional characters.

 

[KMatthew]

After reading everything in this thread, I've decided to delist all of my PI from all retailers until this whole thing blows over.

 

[Cpersons101]

It was mainly PI. Stepfamily in a variety of settings, BDSM, etc. Everyone was above 18 years old. So I am not sure what constitutes unlawful, since it is all fictional and involves fictional characters.

Yeah, I get the gist that they are targeting stepfamily relationships. I know someone that has had several of her titles targeted and they all are between stepfather and daughter. She has one that is teacher/student and so far that one has been left alone.

 

[Lo/Roxie]

On some private loops, authors are reporting that their books with heroes/heroines who have childhood abuse in their pasts are being pulled (hello, staple of the romance genre!) and also books like M/M shifter romances (so gay werewolf romances) without any sex scenes at all. Like--what?!

But--you can still snatch up a copy of the Sleeping Beauty series (kidnapping underage girls/boys for severe D/s training) and Anais Nin's Delta of Venus at most of these retailers. Sure, it's a classic text in the erotica genre but it contains underage sex, pedophilia (the first chapter!,) necrophilia, incest, bestiality, etc. Or even a certain erotica series with a southern gothic flare that was put published by HQN/Mira over the last year. That series contains on-the-page underage sex, a priest who becomes emotionally entangled (and later sexually involved with when she's of age) a female parishioner when she is in her teens, knife play and all sorts of major kink.

Also--what about all the NA titles that are all the rage right now (some of them mega NYT bestsellers) that feature forbidden love between stepbrothers and stepsisters? Are those going to be yanked?

FWIW I decided to pull any of my taboo titles last night. They were fun to write and I enjoy pushing the envelope when I write erotica but it is just not worth all this hassle for me.

 

[Linlithgow]

I think banning erotica and indie writers en masse is not going to work - so many people I know (myself included), buy from largely from self-published or small houses. They might buy Sylvia Day or some other big names too but they get a lot of content from smaller houses.

If Amazon has a problem with search results showing up inappropriately THAT is what needs to targeted - there shouldn't be a wholesale slash and burn. If people don't appropriately label something as erotica or adult content the author should get a warning, a little time to change what is necessary before the title is yanked, but the reason should be clear.

I completely understand a no tolerance policy for pedophilia, snuff, etc., but based on the comments and observations here the taboo labels do not appear to be applied equitably. If the anecdotes are true, perhaps self-pubs and small houses are being targeted because they are perceived as low hanging fruit? It helps clean up the 'mess' a little and Amazon is seen as doing 'the right thing' without upsetting the apple cart too much. I don't know what is behind it all - I hope indies being singled out is not the case, because my experience publishing with Amazon to date has largely been positive.

 

[Lexissommer]

I think banning erotica and indie writers en masse is not going to work - so many people I know (myself included), buy from largely from self-published or small houses. They might buy Sylvia Day or some other big names too but they get a lot of content from smaller houses.

If Amazon has a problem with search results showing up inappropriately THAT is what needs to targeted - there shouldn't be a wholesale slash and burn. If people don't appropriately label something as erotica or adult content the author should get a warning, a little time to change what is necessary before the title is yanked, but the reason should be clear.

I completely understand a no tolerance policy for pedophilia, snuff, etc., but based on the comments and observations here the taboo labels do not appear to be applied equitably. If the anecdotes are true, perhaps self-pubs and small houses are being targeted because they are perceived as low hanging fruit? It helps clean up the 'mess' a little and Amazon is seen as doing 'the right thing' without upsetting the apple cart too much. I don't know what is behind it all - I hope indies being singled out is not the case, because my experience publishing with Amazon to date has largely been positive.

I really don't see them banning all erotica, and especially don't see them banning ALL indie writers. This is more of a PR move than it is a change in their business model. They just want this to all go away, so that a vocal minority gets off of their backs. Give it a couple of weeks, and this will all have calmed down.

 

[swolf]

So when Kobo approved all these books with 'Stepdaughter' and 'Stepdaddy' in their titles,  were they not aware of their own content rules?

 

[R. K. Clark]

Well...I picked the right time to start writing erotica...  

I am certain that Amazon is going to pay lip service to those who need it (as it has been echoed in earlier posts) and everything is going to be back to business-as-usual.

However, I think that I am going to consider other options as far as getting the books out there. With various programs out there, I am not dependent on Amazon for formatting the books for Kindle.  I can easily get them formatted for any e-book and sell them directly from a website.  Sure, I am not going to have Amazon's exposure...but I am not going to have Amazon's headaches, either.

Oh, and Hello, everyone!  

 

[swolf]

I am certain that Amazon is going to pay lip service to those who need it (as it has been echoed in earlier posts) and everything is going to be back to business-as-usual.

I don't think it's going to return to what it was, as far as the explicit titles and blurbs go. We're going to have to tone it down with that.

I know that if they start allowing the stuff they're blocking right now, the current authors are going to raise hell with them. Why did I spend days removing 'stepdaughter' and 'babysitter' from my titles just to see them allowing new books with those words?

 

[Mysterio]

It was mainly PI. Stepfamily in a variety of settings, BDSM, etc. Everyone was above 18 years old. So I am not sure what constitutes unlawful, since it is all fictional and involves fictional characters.

I just have to ask, are you the owner of See You Next Tuesday Press or Something City Press, or someone involved with them? I don't agree with censorship/account terminations in any case, but it would make sense because those pen names were at the center of this media storm. I can see retailers like Kobo banning the account of the person with a bunch of explicit rape titles, even though I disagree with it.

About pedophilia, I think the British gossip press has been extraordinarily sloppy. They outright lied when they said certain taboo works covered had underage characters. It simply wasn't true. I haven't found one instance of this in any of the books cited in these articles. Even the books published by See You Next Tuesday contained disclaimers about all characters being over 18.

These journalists should be held to a higher standard for completing making things up and failing to do the least bit of fact checking. It's gross.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm.
Would a biography of Woody Allen be banned because he messed around with his step-daughter?

 

[Dormouse]

Hmmm.
Would a biography of Woody Allen be banned because he messed around with his step-daughter?

Biography isn't erotica unless you plan to write FPS.

They haven't banned Game of Thrones nor Flowers in the Attic or any biography about ancient pharaohs, who often married their sisters and in some instances even their own mothers, nor any involving European aristocracy where marriages between cousins was also relatively common, especially among the Habsburg-family.