[CS]

Enthusiast fans tend to be more on the ball than major corporations sometimes. We've seen that already with the K2 font hack.

However, it appears no one has been able to create a "hack" to add folders to any incarnation of the Kindle.

That doesn't make me very optimistic for any kind of official Amazon solution either, because if it could've been done, it probably would've been by now. :\

Then again, magazines/newspapers have folders. I've never understood why that functionality can't be extended to the rest of the Kindle too.

At the very least, a samples folder would be a godsend.

 

[koolmnbv]

I agree completely! I wish someone amazon or otherwise would come up with something. I would LOVE to be so smart as to be the one to do it but sadly I'm not  ...I know alot of people always talk/ask about folders so it would make sense that someone, somewhere would come up with a solution. I guess until then I have to grin and bear it.

 

[1131]

Yes, please allow me to organize and reorganize my books the way I want them organized.

 

[NogDog]

Not that it would stop a true hacker, but the Kindle license agreement/terms of use (Section 4: Software) states that:

No Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, Disassembly or Circumvention. You may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, modify, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Device or the Software, whether in whole or in part, create any derivative works from or of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat or tamper with or circumvent any of the functions or protections of the Device or Software or any mechanisms operatively linked to the Software, including, but not limited to, augmenting or substituting any digital rights management functionality of the Device or Software.

 

[koolmnbv]

Wouldn't that also be the same 'rules' for the screen saver hack and the font hack NogDog?

 

[NogDog]

Wouldn't that also be the same 'rules' for the screen saver hack and the font hack NogDog?

Probably, but I'm no lawyer, so take anything I say with several grains of salt. (For instance, I'm not sure from that language if installing those hacks is contrary to the agreement, or only the act of decompiling the software in order to create the "hacks", or also the creation of the software mods, etc....only your hairdresser laywer knows for sure.)

 

[koolmnbv]

only your hairdresser lawyer knows for sure.)

LOL...that last part got a laugh from me!

It does seem like any of the hacks would go against amazon's kindle guidelines/terms of agreement.

I don't want anyone to get into any trouble or have any serious consequences just so that I can get organization or a few folders. I'm not that greedy.

 

[Morpheus Phreak]

To pop in here and make a small comment...

I've heard a LOT of commentary (not saying it's happening in this thread) about how simple folder support should be, but to be quite honest adding a file management system isn't just a few lines of code.

It takes quite a bit of work since, especially in this case since they'd have to design a system that works specifically for the kindle.

 

[Ann in Arlington]

The "official" explanation usually given is they want the Kindle to be an "open the box, turn it on, and use it" experience.  Highly intuitive.  No real need for a users guide, it's just there for reference; you can do what the Kindle is designed to do pretty quickly after just a few minutes of playing.  Adding an organization system would, potentially, impact that 'easy to use, right out of the box' experience.

Not saying I agree or disagree, just saying it's what I've heard.

 

[marianneg]

Since amazon has released the code for Kindle, I don't think the reverse engineering, decompliation, or disassembly really apply.  The circumvention part might be troubling, though.

 

[Jeff]

The operating system kernel (Linux) actually supports full file manipulation. I'd guess the main reason that we don't see an option for folders is simply computing power. It takes a lot of functions to navigate, create, move, rename and delete files and folders. The Kindle uses most of it's resources in the display process.

Anyone interested can see the changes that Amazon made to the open source code here:

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/kindle/kindle-2.6.10.patch

Other open source components used include Alsa, BusyBox, Freetype and zLib.

 

[marianneg]

I dunno.  Is it really that power intensive to change pointers around?  I would have guessed that the issue is creating a decent user interface to reflect an underlying structure.  Which is why I'm a much stronger supporter of tags than folders.

 

[Jeff]

I dunno. Is it really that power intensive to change pointers around? I would have guessed that the issue is creating a decent user interface to reflect an underlying structure. Which is why I'm a much stronger supporter of tags than folders.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear was I? Yes, I meant the user functions. The API for the file structure already exists.

 

[Varin]

The "official" explanation usually given is they want the Kindle to be an "open the box, turn it on, and use it" experience. Highly intuitive. No real need for a users guide, it's just there for reference; you can do what the Kindle is designed to do pretty quickly after just a few minutes of playing. Adding an organization system would, potentially, impact that 'easy to use, right out of the box' experience.

Not saying I agree or disagree, just saying it's what I've heard.

But for something that's been requested for so long, surely it could be made optional; have it so the kindle comes as is now, but with the option to create folders and organize them in that way. THat way, if people not so technologically savvy won't have to deal with it, and everyone else with pages and pages of books can be happy. I really don't see why this is such an issue, because... *pouts like a little girl* the Sony reader series has folders! *bursts into tears and runs away.*

 

[JerryEF]

I've heard a LOT of commentary (not saying it's happening in this thread) about how simple folder support should be, but to be quite honest adding a file management system isn't just a few lines of code.

It takes quite a bit of work since, especially in this case since they'd have to design a system that works specifically for the kindle.

Although, they do support reading a directory structure now. If you go into your K1/2 via the USB, you can set up a directory structure to store your ebooks and Kindle has no trouble finding them.

The User Interface used for 'Periodicals' and 'Archived Items' would be just right for basic directory structure navigation.

 

[NogDog]

Anything like this is always a balancing act based on expected return on investment (ROI). The investment would include the time spent by development staff gathering the exact functional requirements, designing an implementation that would satisfy those requirements, reviewing the design to determine it would not negatively impact anything else on the Kindle, actually coding it (including the coding of the update patch that will be distributed to current owners), testing it to ensure it addresses the requirements and doing thorough regression testing to ensure it does not break anything else on the Kindle, maybe providing alpha and/or beta test versions to get feedback from the user base, and in all these test cycles budgeting in additional debug/code/test/analysis cycles to address the inevitable bugs.

After you plan for all that and determine what the expected budget would be to do it, you then have to look at your best guess as to what the expected return in terms of increased sales would be (including resulting book sales). If that expected return is less than the expected investment, then the project will probably be nixed by management. Should that be the case, your best hope will be if some programmer there (or possibly some independent programmer working with the released code) comes up with an implementation on his/her own time, and then submits it to the Amazon development team as a fait accompli, at which point Amazon's investment to implement it would be less as it would only need to do some regression testing and installation testing, at which point you might then get your folders enhancement.

(Yes, I've spent way too many years in the software industry. )

 

[back2nature]

With three versions of Kindles out now, I can't believe that the people over there in the Amazon Kindle department haven't heard that the one thing most, if not all, Kindle owners would like is the ability to make folders. Maybe it's not possible at this time, but I sure would like Amazon to address this. Let us know the reason why they can't do it now. Maybe it's budget, software, battery life, or maybe they ARE working on developing it, as we speak, whatever. . . just make a statement to what's going on.

If they make a statement that is not possible, okay, we then will except it, and we'll stop our bellyaching.

 

[NogDog]

With three versions of Kindles out now, I can't believe that the people over there in the Amazon Kindle department haven't heard that the one thing most, if not all, Kindle owners would like is the ability to make folders. Maybe it's not possible at this time, but I sure would like Amazon to address this. Let us know the reason why they can't do it now. Maybe it's budget, software, battery life, or maybe they ARE working on developing it, as we speak, whatever. . . just make a statement to what's going on.

If they make a statement that is not possible, okay, we then will except it, and we'll stop our bellyaching.

I think the question here, though, is how would having folders increase the number of books you buy from Amazon, and/or how would it increase sales of Kindles to new owners? (Would you have bought your Kindle sooner had you known it had a "folders feature"?) What is the business case for Amazon to provide this additional feature to those of us who already have purchased a Kindle and are already buying books? If you can come up with some rationale as to how folders would increase Amazon's bottom line, then they'll do it in a snap. If it's just a "nice to have" feature that won't have any significant impact on their sales, then I think we're at the mercy of waiting for someone to do it on their own time, not on Amazon's.

(Personally, I don't feel any great need for folders. I suppose if I had them I'd use them, but right now it's among the least of my worries. But then I've always marched to the beat of a different drummer, so don't go by me, Amazon.)

 

[back2nature]

I would say competition with other ebooks. Since more and more people are buying ebooks, they have to make a decision which to buy on what features they have. Possibly, the one with folders is one thing that lets them plunk down the money. Look what we do when we buys cars or TVs. etc. It may be just one thing that we really, really want. That's where the money comes from.

 

[jazzi]

My guess is they'll have them incorporated later this year (just prior to the release of the Plastic Logic reader, which includes "folder" management.