Really dislike it. Yes, I know Stephen & Owen King just did it but... it doesn't do them any credit that they lacked confidence in the ability of their readers to keep the characters straight.

Why though? Esp. in huge stories what's the harm in having a quick reference so that you remember this guy is the 2nd in command or whatever?

 

I really like the idea, because I know that as a reader, I'd be lost in some books without them. I combined characters and terms in my latest series under the single banner of "Important Terms and Characters" to serve as a reference point. My fantasy books get very political in terms of war and involving lots of characters/lands etc., so I feel to not have a reference point might leave some readers lost for a refresher.

Warhammer 40K has some of the best sci-fi/fantasy books on the market, and I know I'd still be lost without that list of characters and their positions in the hierarchy at the front of their books. I think it's imperative for these genres to have references like this especially if the plot even partially revolves around war. Or, as you said, if it's a longer series that evolves and adds new characters along the way, it might be helpful. Of course, with some books, they just get so convoluted and complex that character lists don't help me. *cough* George R. R. Martin *cough-cough*

 

Eh, it's reflective of lazy writing if they can't make important characters stick in the mind. But I guess it does no harm. I simply ignore such lists if it's from a writer I know and like. If it's from an unknown, I will probably select a different book. If there's a map AND a character list at the beginning from an unknown, I will definitely select a different book. The author lacks confidence either in my ability to understand or in their ability to communicate, and I don't feel like finding out which it is.

You're a hard reader to please. It's okay, though, we all have our biases when it comes to books we will or won't read. When it comes to maps, if a fantasy book does not have a map, I won't read it, so I'm just as bad as you only in the opposite sense. I have to be able to visualize what's going on, and I've found that when it comes to books without reference points, I will begin to visualize everything in my head, which later is proven wrong because the author continues to expand upon the land or location. This just frustrates me and ruins the immersion, and I'll drop the book. Also, I've found that authors with maps tend to have less plot holes in their work. If you create a map, you have to stick to it. The land isn't changing (well, I guess technically it could, if it's fantasy or sci-fi, though I've yet to see that happen in a book with a map). I like to know that the author isn't going to break their own rules. If they have the world mapped out beforehand, this is less likely.

There's also something more immersive to me about a book that has references to lore and maps and such. It tells me the author is so heavily in love with their own world that they will go above and beyond to flesh it out. Maps usually show lands and places that the book will never take you. That attracts me as a reader. This is a living, breathing world that will exist and go on whether I read this book or not...though, now I want to, because I want to be immersed and imagine being in this world.

You know...now that I think of it, I can't remember the last sci-fi I read that had a map. Then again, the kind of sci-fi I read has men of war flying all over the galaxy, so that would just be a mess.

 

For an ebook, I'd put the character list in the back of the book. Otherwise you end up stuffing your sample with a list of characters no one's going to care about when reading the sample. I recently read a sample that had maps, a character list, and a glossary all packed at the front of the book and there was less than four pages of actual prose in the sample. Sufficiently annoyed, I deleted the sample and won't read the book.

Print books it's easy enough to skip the list of characters and get to the story. Ebooks, though, I'd dump all that stuff in the back.

That being said, unless you're writing a multi-tome epic with hundreds of characters, I'd lean away from including a list of characters. You're writing a novel, not a stage play or screen play. No need for a list of dramatis personae.

 

I have a large character set and I've always included a character list at the back of the book as a reference. I've also added a glossary of Australian slang for my US readers. Words like 'yabbie', 'billy', 'bloke', boofhead' lose their impact if no one knows what they mean.

Recently this same readership have asked for a map because they don't know much about Australian geography. I guess I really shouldn't expect them to know where Oodnadatta or Mungerannie are. I like to provide my readers with aids, if they use them great, if not at least I have given them the option.

The maps sit at the front and the lists are at the back.

 

Я не согласен с условиями T.O.S.

 

Recently this same readership have asked for a map because they don't know much about Australian geography. I guess I really shouldn't expect them to know where Oodnadatta or Mungerannie are. I like to provide my readers with aids, if they use them great, if not at least I have given them the option.

Maybe one day Google or somebody will invent an application that lets you look at maps of pretty much anywhere in the world for free.

 

As a reader, I skip everything that occurs before chapter 1, outside of the occasional prologue done by an author I trust.  Maps, glossaries, and characters lists belong in the back of the book. Until I've invested myself in the story and fallen in love with the world, a character list is essentially the worst kind of data dump.

 

The couple of times I had to do it, I put a note in the front of the book on the acknowledgment page that there was a glossary and reference at the back.

 

As a reader I probably would glance at once for .5 second and then promptly forget all about it. I'm awful at remembering names, and if I haven't even read the book yet I won't have a clue who these people are in the first place. I wouldn't say it'd put me off the book or anything (except I might be thinking 'Oh God, just how many characters ARE there?'), but it definitely wouldn't add anything to my reading experience.

 

For an ebook, I'd put the character list in the back of the book.

I agree. Character list at the back makes it unobtrusive so folks can ignore it if they want and easily access it if they want to.

And I also agree that, unless you have a Game of Thrones size cast of characters, it probably isn't necessary.

 

Maybe one day Google or somebody will invent an application that lets you look at maps of pretty much anywhere in the world for free.

lol, now why didn't I think of that!?

 

Eh, it's reflective of lazy writing if they can't make important characters stick in the mind. But I guess it does no harm. I simply ignore such lists if it's from a writer I know and like. If it's from an unknown, I will probably select a different book. If there's a map AND a character list at the beginning from an unknown, I will definitely select a different book. The author lacks confidence either in my ability to understand or in their ability to communicate, and I don't feel like finding out which it is.

So, my 1942 copy of "War and Peace" has a character list (in the back). Pretty sure I would not call Tolstoy, or the American publisher, lazy. Lists can also be found in each volume of McCullough's "Masters of Rome" series, this one even includes some sketches by the author. I would not call Colleen McCullough either lazy or lacking in confidence in much of anything, including her readers.

To the OP, put it in the back. For the ebook, add a link at the front for ease of navigation. It belongs with the Table of Contents. It goes in the back for reasons already cited for ebooks. For print, there is always front matter, so finding that list means page fiddling. Add it to the back, and it's much easier for the reader to locate.

 

I would (and have, when I've used them) also put it at the back, with a link in the table of contents. That way, readers can find it if they want it and ignore it if they don't.

I don't write huge casts of characters, but I've included character lists when there are complicated family relationships to keep track of.

 

For me, it depends. Game of Thrones, it was handy with all those houses, especially when a character disappeared for 500 pages.  Generally, though, I don't rely on them much. I'd say it's a case if it's there and someone wants it, great. If they don't, they can ignore it.

However, when I saw the subject line for this thread, I immediately thought of the wonderful Falco mysteries by Lindsey Davis, one of the few writers I automatically buy in hard cover.  The mysteries have a wonderful snarky, tongue-in-cheek quality that is beautifully reflected in the character list. They're the only lists I can think of that I really look forward to reading.  And even re-read once I get into the story, just because I love the take on the characters.

 

For an ebook, I'd put the character list in the back of the book. Otherwise you end up stuffing your sample with a list of characters no one's going to care about when reading the sample. I recently read a sample that had maps, a character list, and a glossary all packed at the front of the book and there was less than four pages of actual prose in the sample. Sufficiently annoyed, I deleted the sample and won't read the book.

Print books it's easy enough to skip the list of characters and get to the story. Ebooks, though, I'd dump all that stuff in the back.

That being said, unless you're writing a multi-tome epic with hundreds of characters, I'd lean away from including a list of characters. You're writing a novel, not a stage play or screen play. No need for a list of dramatis personae.

This! Very much so. It's annoying to have the Look Inside filled with lists of junk when you want to evaluate whether the writing will hook you in.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE glossaries and appendixes but they go at the back of the book.

Maps are ok to be at the front since they usually don't suck up too many pages. I love maps I'd have my own in my books except they don't look so pretty right now and I'm too poor to pay for a fancy one (just yet).

 

.

 

Я не согласен с условиями T.O.S.

 

So, my 1942 copy of "War and Peace" has a character list (in the back). Pretty sure I would not call Tolstoy, or the American publisher, lazy.

I think character lists were more common in the past. It's a good point in defense of them but it also means they feel a bit archaic, and I personally find them surprising in genres that aren't evoking the past (like science fiction). I'm one of the readers who always skips such things but would accept them as part of the book packaging to set a tone. I much prefer to meet characters (and get gentle reminders) in the text itself. If I try to read through them, character lists give me bad flashbacks to the horrible "it's day one of a book, memorize this list of people before you start reading, there will be a quiz" approach that my middle school took to literature.

Doesn't Wattpad have character lists off to the side? I've not read enough on the platform to know how widely these are used, but on a platform where you might be reading scenes one at a time with days in between, they would be much more important.

Would this be an ideal application of the X-ray feature Amazon recently added?

 

Personally, hate them. However, for my very large Stonehenge book, which has many unusual names, reader's asked for one so I inserted a list in the back. It was 4-5 pages long!

 

You know what? I bet that's what the difference is. I almost never read fantasy. I read SF, and I already know what the solar system looks like.

I read scifi too and few of them only hang out in the solar system. I got the idea originally from a scifi book. For me it was a sign this was a cool/epic book

 

I have a large character set and I've always included a character list at the back of the book as a reference. I've also added a glossary of Australian slang for my US readers. Words like 'yabbie', 'billy', 'bloke', boofhead' lose their impact if no one knows what they mean.

Recently this same readership have asked for a map because they don't know much about Australian geography. I guess I really shouldn't expect them to know where Oodnadatta or Mungerannie are. I like to provide my readers with aids, if they use them great, if not at least I have given them the option.

The maps sit at the front and the lists are at the back.

Really love your covers Pacman. I will pick your books up at some point, they make me really want to read them.

On character lists - I have been debating this myself. I've only seven main characters but within each perspective, there's a fair few supporting characters some of which are important and some of which are far less so. I think its all too easy to just say 'Don't you trust in your writing? Isn't it strong enough?' - You can have very strong writing and it can still be difficult to keep track of characters especially in the fantasy or Sci-Fi genres. It can be a big ask, even with the best of writing. You can't assume every reader has a young fresh mind and will read all of your novel diligently night after night, recalling very detail, brilliant writing or not. I know I struggle sometimes, even with the best of writers. I read a Submarine set contemporary thriller recently and it had one at the front and really only had three main character perspectives, so felt it was unwarranted but the writer may well have felt he needed it because of the various military ranks of the characters involved.

My personal view is if its a fantasy world that is filled with characters and different races, all with unusual and wild names then I would suggest a dramatis personae simply makes good sense. I would probably put it as an appendix at the back, but that's just me and my experience here is very limited.

 

I fucking adore them (in the back though). My memory is awful and I’m dyslexic, so  similar names (or even not so similar names) can blend together and get confusing. This isn’t a fault on the authors part. It’s a great tool for large casts.

 

I'm reading a book right now (The Dark Monk) that has a character list at the beginning of the book, not in the ToC, incidentally. I do not refer to it because I don't think it's necessary. And Lynna is correct: it will get skipped if it's put in front of the book. I think put in a glossary is best.

 

Really love your covers Pacman. I will pick your books up at some point, they make me really want to read them.

Thanks Diamondsinthesky, I'm sure you'll enjoy them

I'll pass your kind words to my cover artist, he'll be stoked.