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Romance or Erotica? Erotic Romance...what's the difference?

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11K views 16 replies 10 participants last post by  WordNinja  
#1 ·
I've published 2 short romance stories this month and now focusing my efforts on getting reviews (while working on my first serial). I'm bummed because I just posted my book, The Voice Between My Legs, in the Book Bazaar and the moderator deleted the cover in my post and my signature because I violated the Forum Rules :-[

From following romance bloggers, what I've deciphered as the grey line between romance and erotica is that Romance follows a (2 person) relationship (can or can not include sex) and in most cases ends HEA. Whereas, Erotica contains explicit sex, in some cases with more than 2 people and doesn't follow a primary relationship. The Voice Between My Legs is primarily about a new relationship, which I categorized as Erotic Romance since it contains sexual content. I did not think the cover was any more erotic than other books listed on the KB author page.

When you look on Amazon, it's impossible to distinguish a difference between Romance and Erotica. The 2 categories practically look the same. I've read a ton of Romance that has very explicit sex intended for adults only that is not listed in Erotica (and vice versa). Most books do carry a disclaimer. I include an 18+ disclaimer on my books.

Are there any genre "rules" that help determine which side of the fence a book falls? I was hoping to solicit honest reviews for my book but I can't even include a link with my info :-X
 
#2 ·
I was wondering the same thing too and read that erotica has more frequent sex scenes and the story would be about the sexual journey the character. It doesn't have to end with a HEA.

Erotic romance would be an erotica that has to end with a HEA. In the sexier romances (ones with more explicit descriptions), if you remove the sex, it doesn't affect the story.

This is a good detailed description: http://www.sylviaday.com/extras/erotic-romance/
 
#3 ·
There's no gray area between erotic romance and erotica. The two genres are distinct.

1. Erotic romance is a subgenre of romance. Like all romance, it has a hero and a heroine (or a same-sex pairing), referred to as the h/h. The h/h each have their own individual character arc and their own individual plot arc. These 2 plot arcs are interwoven to create the story arc. The love story is the central plot, and the story must have a happy ending (either happy-for-now or happily-ever-after). Romance is classified as erotic when the story contains explicit sex scenes that are critical to the development of the love relationship. If you took the sex scenes out, the story wouldn't make sense. But the sex scenes exist to support the love story.

2. Erotica is a subgenre of general fiction (or maybe something like sci-fi or fantasy). It probably won't have an h/h or interwoven plots--more likely, it will have a single protagonist. If there's a love interest, that person (or creature) is more likely a secondary character. It may or may not have a happy ending. The sex exists primarily to support the protagonist's character journey, not the love story.

Erotica is a little more difficult to define than erotic romance, simply because erotic romance is very specific, and erotica encompasses everything else. If the couple doesn't end up together at the end, it's not erotic romance. If the love story isn't central, it's not erotic romance.

ETA: Another way to tell whether it's romance is that in romance, the goals of the h/h are mutually exclusive. For instance, her goal is to save the family farm, and his goal is to buy the land and build a housing community. The two serve as each other's antagonist (although there may also be a villain).
 
#7 ·
Priya said:
I've published 2 short romance stories this month and now focusing my efforts on getting reviews (while working on my first serial). I'm bummed because I just posted my book, The Voice Between My Legs, in the Book Bazaar and the moderator deleted the cover in my post and my signature because I violated the Forum Rules :-[
For what it's worth, I think you have an excellent title and a fine cover - certainly in synch with the cover (I looked for it on Amazon). Don't take violation of a forum's rules as a judgement of your work in general, or how it will do in the world at large. Best luck with it.
 
#8 ·
Sorry for your problem with the standards, Priya. Your case is another casualty in the endless confusion and contention about sexual realism, not just here in KBoards but everywhere. Insofar as your or my personal opinion is concerned, it is really a matter of individual choice as to what exactly constitutes erotica, erotic romance, or romance. But this is an industry, with millions of consumers, thousands of highly opinionated authors and publishers, and the operators of distribution platforms for books. There are billions of dollars in annual revenues at stake, thousands of fan bases, and thousands of carefully honed and polished author images to be protected. And, since much of my career has been involved in search tools development, I have to add the dozens of topical categorization schemes, keyword conventions, tag schemes, and algorithms, all contending (at least on the surface) to help the readers find the kind of reads they prefer, or find some new topic or trope or author to take a chance on.

These various interest groups may not agree on much, but most would concur that the setting of clear and consistent definitions for themes and sub themes is vital in helping the reading consumer find what she wants quickly.

Since romance in all its variations is the largest sub-market in books, the folks who write and publish it naturally have a major stake in setting these definition standards for "their" topical hierarchies.

An example of this is the ten year-old article cited by Mitns. It lays down the law. But in the intervening ten years, a tsunami of changes has made the author's hard and fast definitions moot. It's not merely the revolution in publishing that undermines her 2005 definitions; in the sexual and romantic genres it's the advent of a dozen other real-world trends, including:
- the hookup-culture
- online dating
- cyber-relationships that remain physically unconsummated
- the emergence of "polyamory" as a lovestyle choice which can be just as "romantic" as a traditional couple relationship
- the (positive and voluntary) outing of LGBT couples and menages
- same-sex marriage
- the growing sexual independence of many professional women
- the emergence of "late-in-life" relationships as the society ages.

Most telling, IMO, as the traditional institution of marriage erodes, the majority of men and women are finding themselves in a HFN reality, with no hope or, in many cases, desire, for a HEA outcome.

There are many who may insist that these trends have nothing to do with the discussion, say, about romance versus erotic romance genre boundaries. Many will hope to keep the often "ugly" or unpleasant sexual realities of our culture as far away as possible from the often unrealistic worlds and behaviors portrayed in most romantic and so-called "erotic" fiction. Many will continue to hold that it is basically impossible for a story to be "romantic" and at the same time be sexually realistic.

The problem with insisting as Andrea does that erotica cannot, by definition, include a romantic dimension and may *not* be a "love story" flies in the face of realities that people, and hence characters, confront and experience in many of today's fragmented relationships. Many of the greatest romances have been affaires that did not last. To imply that writers of these stories are not writing in an essentially romantic genre is ludicrous. Similarly, confining romance to an experience shared by couples is to deny the very moving and real dramatic and romantic potential in polyamorous stories.

I suggest that trying to maintain category standards that are divergent from or that ignore social reality will become impossible, indeed, has already failed. Art reflects reality. Even fantasy must be grounded in reality or the reader won't understand why it is "fantastic". Romantic storytelling is already incorporating the trends enumerated above.

Many will probably not care if the romance writers gradually become irrelevant, given their commanding presence in the market. But I'd prefer to see the romance and erom writers find ways of including a broader array of relationships and sexual realism under the general label "romantic". 

We need to be more realistic in how we categorize romance and sexual fiction, and then agitate for Amazon and the other industry powers to implement a smarter set of topical families, and thereby help authors and publishers more accurately describe their works, and in turn, better aid the reading consumer in finding the relationship fiction that matches their chosen life-genre.
 
#9 ·
The h/h CANNOT die at the end in a romance. They must LIVE happily ever after. The end of a romance novel is the beginning of a marriage, or a relationship that could lead to marriage. (Menage and polyamory are okay too in erotic romance, as long as there is commitment and consent.)

If the h/h are each in a loveless marriage and eventually leave their spouses for each other, that could be could be a romance. They can't just have a fling. They must end up together.

Regarding the forum rules, I had an email exchange with Harvey about that today. Amazon refers to "erotic romance" as "romantic erotica," and the forum follows the Amazon terminology, not the literary terminology.
 
#10 ·
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not saying that erotica can't be romantic. It absolutely can. The difference between erotic romance and erotica is similar to the difference between romance and romantic women's fiction. Does it focus on the growth of the romantic couple, individually and together, or more on the journey of one main character? Romance has a hero and heroine, whereas all other genres have a protagonist. (The h/h could be a same-sex couple, or a committed threesome, or a committed couple that also have polyamorous relationships.)

An HFN where the couple have no desire or plans to marry is fine in romance, as long as they're together and happy at the end.
 
#11 ·
Thank you - this discussion/feedback has been very helpful and got me thinking.

Since my stories are short (less than 100 pgs), I'm questioning whether I focus too much on the journey of the heroine. That may bc the POV is from the heroine. The love story is central and there is a HEA but as I consider developing this novella into a trilogy, I may need to strengthen the journey of the hero, rather than having him potentially be a secondary character.

Thanks again for the clarification and feedback. 

I appreciate the distinction on Amazon's terminology vs the literary.  Helpful. 
 
#14 ·
sinapse said:
Sorry for your problem with the standards, Priya. Your case is another casualty in the endless confusion and contention about sexual realism, not just here in KBoards but everywhere. Insofar as your or my personal opinion is concerned, it is really a matter of individual choice as to what exactly constitutes erotica, erotic romance, or romance. But this is an industry, with millions of consumers, thousands of highly opinionated authors and publishers, and the operators of distribution platforms for books. There are billions of dollars in annual revenues at stake, thousands of fan bases, and thousands of carefully honed and polished author images to be protected. And, since much of my career has been involved in search tools development, I have to add the dozens of topical categorization schemes, keyword conventions, tag schemes, and algorithms, all contending (at least on the surface) to help the readers find the kind of reads they prefer, or find some new topic or trope or author to take a chance on.

These various interest groups may not agree on much, but most would concur that the setting of clear and consistent definitions for themes and sub themes is vital in helping the reading consumer find what she wants quickly.

Since romance in all its variations is the largest sub-market in books, the folks who write and publish it naturally have a major stake in setting these definition standards for "their" topical hierarchies.

An example of this is the ten year-old article cited by Mitns. It lays down the law. But in the intervening ten years, a tsunami of changes has made the author's hard and fast definitions moot. It's not merely the revolution in publishing that undermines her 2005 definitions; in the sexual and romantic genres it's the advent of a dozen other real-world trends, including:
- the hookup-culture
- online dating
- cyber-relationships that remain physically unconsummated
- the emergence of "polyamory" as a lovestyle choice which can be just as "romantic" as a traditional couple relationship
- the (positive and voluntary) outing of LGBT couples and menages
- same-sex marriage
- the growing sexual independence of many professional women
- the emergence of "late-in-life" relationships as the society ages.

Most telling, IMO, as the traditional institution of marriage erodes, the majority of men and women are finding themselves in a HFN reality, with no hope or, in many cases, desire, for a HEA outcome.

There are many who may insist that these trends have nothing to do with the discussion, say, about romance versus erotic romance genre boundaries. Many will hope to keep the often "ugly" or unpleasant sexual realities of our culture as far away as possible from the often unrealistic worlds and behaviors portrayed in most romantic and so-called "erotic" fiction. Many will continue to hold that it is basically impossible for a story to be "romantic" and at the same time be sexually realistic.

The problem with insisting as Andrea does that erotica cannot, by definition, include a romantic dimension and may *not* be a "love story" flies in the face of realities that people, and hence characters, confront and experience in many of today's fragmented relationships. Many of the greatest romances have been affaires that did not last. To imply that writers of these stories are not writing in an essentially romantic genre is ludicrous. Similarly, confining romance to an experience shared by couples is to deny the very moving and real dramatic and romantic potential in polyamorous stories.

I suggest that trying to maintain category standards that are divergent from or that ignore social reality will become impossible, indeed, has already failed. Art reflects reality. Even fantasy must be grounded in reality or the reader won't understand why it is "fantastic". Romantic storytelling is already incorporating the trends enumerated above.

Many will probably not care if the romance writers gradually become irrelevant, given their commanding presence in the market. But I'd prefer to see the romance and erom writers find ways of including a broader array of relationships and sexual realism under the general label "romantic".

We need to be more realistic in how we categorize romance and sexual fiction, and then agitate for Amazon and the other industry powers to implement a smarter set of topical families, and thereby help authors and publishers more accurately describe their works, and in turn, better aid the reading consumer in finding the relationship fiction that matches their chosen life-genre.
This is an excellent analysis of the situation; book categories don't necessarily reflect what is happening in contemporary society. I agree that Amazon and other retailers should create more specific categories. Readers could find what they want much more easily. Also they could weed out what they don't want. That would eliminate many of the one-star reviews from disappointed/angry readers.
 
#15 ·
Andrea @ ArtWellPub said:
They must LIVE happily ever after. The end of a romance novel is the beginning of a marriage, or a relationship that could lead to marriage. (Menage and polyamory are okay too in erotic romance, as long as there is commitment and consent.)
No. Unequivocally no.

By now you get romances which end in a relationship, not romance which perforce ends in marriage. You get sweet romances which end with a poly relationship (meaning more than 2 and genders in any direction) and consent doesn't even come into the equation, because polyamory has nothing to do with BDSM. You lastly also get romances of asexual people who link up and don't have sex. Children are also not anymore seen as the end-all of a romance novel.
 
#17 ·
Nic said:
No. Unequivocally no.

By now you get romances which end in a relationship, not romance which perforce ends in marriage. You get romances which end with a poly relationship (meaning more than 2 and genders in any direction). You lastly also get romances of asexual people who link up and don't have sex. Children are also not anymore seen as the end-all of a romance novel.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply "perforce ends in marriage." I said a relationship that could lead to marriage. I included poly and menage as possibilities. I never mentioned children. So I'm not sure what it is that you're disagreeing with.

The vast majority of romance readers are looking for a relationship that leads to marriage. If that's not your goal as a romance author, that's fine. From a marketing perspective, you'd be better served leaving the door open for marriage, unless the book or the characters are specifically rejecting marriage as an institution (which will alienate a certain portion of readers--just be aware). Truly, I'm not trying to limit the form that the relationship takes. But at a minimum, it must be a mutually committed relationship that has a future.

ETA: When I talk about consent, what I mean is that if there are more than two people in the relationship, everyone in the relationship is okay with that--there's no "cheating."